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New VFR possible by 2023: A long wait


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2 chances.....

 

 

 

FAT

 

 

NAE

 

 

 

 

:laugh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

when the latest generation CBR1000RR-R was working well in both BSB and World Superbike.

 

What did I miss in this year's racing????

image.thumb.png.7e2fe7f2df1b8eff2c05dcad195c6ea2.png

 

image.png.d120766276d30545b458928c71753cd7.png

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Just more journo speculation to generate sales during the Xmas/New Year lull.

 

And yes, just what did the CBR1000RR-R do exactly this year?

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2 hours ago, Mohawk said:

And V4 rumour mill kicks off again. Must be nearly new year 😂

Yep, every year for the last 10 (15?) years.... like I have posted before gimme the 8th gen in Japanese RWB, gold wheels, Ohlins, VFR999, 130 hp, brembos..

 

Dammit Honda are you listening?

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The V4 800 is an awesome motor. If they would just find a light weight bike to put it in, it would be the last bike I every needed to buy.

 

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This popped up on Bikesales (Australia) a few days ago. Don’t see too many with mileage this low anymore.2AA75FED-96FA-4FAB-8264-70B6E92179B0.thumb.png.2d29e15456b8447e41f332a8ca0ea122.png

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1 hour ago, mello dude said:

Dammit Honda are you listening?

They're not. Only entry bikes and a few cruisers/adv bikes for the street. Supersports and Sport Touring bikes seem to be dead across the board.

 

The European brands and Kawi/Yamaha somewhat seem to be driving new tech and bikes these days, probably driven by the new Euro standards. 

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25 minutes ago, vfrcapn said:

They're not.

I knew that......Boring, safe seems to be the mantra......Soichiro Honda must be rolling in his grave....

 

Rebel 1100? Gimme a break....

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49 minutes ago, vfrcapn said:

They're not. Only entry bikes and a few cruisers/adv bikes for the street. Supersports and Sport Touring bikes seem to be dead across the board.

 

The European brands and Kawi/Yamaha somewhat seem to be driving new tech and bikes these days, probably driven by the new Euro standards. 

 

Ducati is using the V4 in the Panigale, Multistrada, and Streetfighter bikes - that's how you justify cost!

 

Loose the V-tech and make it 1,000cc, put it in a high-spec Africa 4, a hypersport bike, street fighter and a VFR...

 

I doubt it will happen, since they are now run by bean counters. If it does, it will be after everyone gives up and buys something else. 😀😀😀

 

 

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Honda's choice of motorcycles currently is the most disappointing range I've ever seen!!!

Do we blame it on Honda being in bed with Euro5 disease??

My earlier VFR's were purchased from a solely Honda motorcycle dealership, It's no wonder these dealerships have either folded or gone multi brand to survive.

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Bike manufacturers are facing two uphill battles.  One is demographics.  Discussed here many times - grey hair is becoming all too common among riders.  There are few replacements for us.  In my 10+ years on this site the traffic has steadily declined and will likely continue to do so.  Secondly is the worldwide political fixation on only allowing fuel to be used in electrical generating plants.  That's coming (despite all the "clean energy" talk).  Manufacturers will not be asked - they'll be told that the vehicles they manufacture will only be allowed to "plug in".  We're maybe 10 +/- years from that.  With all that going on, why would any manufacturer deploy capital to develop a new V4 motorcycle - or for that matter, any new design?  Until that happens they'll probably do what they did with the 8th gen - grab most of the parts out the bin, give it a makeover, refine it, make its appearance a bit different - but make it basically the same, or make a derivative like the Crossrunner with maybe 80 to 85% commonality.  Focus on what's selling best - thin the herd of their offerings - focus on making money.  Financially it makes perfect sense.  It may not be what we want, but it's what we'll have to deal with regardless of what we wish for.  Regardless of whether Honda has made the "perfect" VFR for us, my $.02 is to get out and ride what you have as much and as often as you can and enjoy it while you can because some day not too far off you won't.   When the day comes that I have to "plug in" a bike, I'm done - finished - not going there.  I have a corner of my shop set aside for the 5th and 6th gens where they will reside for the balance of my days, reminding me of all the trips and fun I had on them - while I work on whatever else I can keep occupied with in my shop.  Not trying to be a downer - just realistic.  I probably don't like it any more than anyone else, but it is coming. 

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Honda's daring move for 2021 is putting a huge engine into a very ugly, one-dimensional cruiser.  Wow.  Hats off to Big Red for being so imaginative.  😕

 

Seriously, the imagination has disappeared from both the motorsports and automobile divisions at Honda.  It's very disappointing.  I've never figured they would give us the VFR we really wanted, but I was fine with what we had, and I think the 8th gen is a great bike.  (Though I don't own one I really admire it.)  Frankly, I'm surprised they even made it.

 

Cogswell is right:  rider demographics are working against motorcycle manufacturers, and not just Honda.  They need to figure out ways to get younger generations into riding, and they'd better do it quickly.

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19 minutes ago, TimC said:

Honda's daring move for 2021 is putting a huge engine into a very ugly, one-dimensional cruiser.  Wow.  Hats off to Big Red for being so imaginative.  😕

 

Seriously, the imagination has disappeared from both the motorsports and automobile divisions at Honda.  It's very disappointing.  I've never figured they would give us the VFR we really wanted, but I was fine with what we had, and I think the 8th gen is a great bike.  (Though I don't own one I really admire it.)  Frankly, I'm surprised they even made it.

 

Cogswell is right:  rider demographics are working against motorcycle manufacturers, and not just Honda.  They need to figure out ways to get younger generations into riding, and they'd better do it quickly.

 

Females are one demo that they've kept talking about attracting (which could really help if they could).   Despite the hopes for ones I've seen at riding clinics, they seem to be interested in short, urban rides.  I took one from the clinic under my wing and took her on her 1st (and only) 100 mile ride. I told her specifically I would not leave her behind (despite assuring her of that, when we hit a favorite twisty section following a river I engaged the warp drive and lost sight of her for a while - yes, I felt guilty, but only a little . . .  :lobby: ).   At a Starbucks afterward she was beaming, said she had a great time.  Subsequent to that she never rode much - just here and there and those were just sort jaunts around town.  Just couldn't pry her loose to get out more.  Can't quite figure it but somehow I haven't seen them become interested in taking multi-day trips.  I am however, in a circle where the wife of one of the group finally abandoned the pillion, getting her own bike and began riding the multi-day trips - and she can really ride.  But so far she's been the exception.   The Pentagon just released a report saying that 71% of military age adults in the US are either too soft & fat or too stoopid (or both) to be eligible to serve.  They don't sound like the types that you'd find at a VFR meetup somewhere.  They seem fixated on all that's been poured in to their heads in schools - victimology, social, environmental causes and video games.  Riding doesn't seem to hold the magic for them that it did for me when I was a teenager.   They seem so lost - if only they knew what they're missing. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cogswell said:

 Not trying to be a downer - just realistic.  I probably don't like it any more than anyone else, but it is coming. 

 

Geez Cogs, you forgot to mention the asteroid that will no doubt hit hit the earth next week.  😐

 

Maybe this will provide a little optimism for the future:

 

https://www.motorcycle.com/features/the-lightfighter-electric-superbike-is-back-and-better-than-ever.html

 

also, while I totally agree with all your points re Honda, we should note that they do spend >$30M every year on a V4 world championship bike.

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I think there are five big issues that are responsible for the past decade being perennially disappointing VFR-wise, a couple of which have already been mentioned:

 

1. The road bike industry in the U.S. is now fully mature and saturated and has been since somewhere around 2000 or thereabouts. By this I mean:

        a. the pace of innovation has slowed dramatically since the 70s and 80s

        b. the ratio of road-ready-motorcycles to people-who-want-motorcycles is also historically high

 

(Compare the innovation distance between a 1986 VFR 750 and a ten-year-old 1976 Honda CB750 relative to the much smaller distance between a 2015 VFR 800 and a ten-year-old 2005 VFR 800)

 

2. Large displacement road motorcycling skews old demographically. It is much more popular among 50 year-olds than it is among 20 year-olds. This means the big manufacturers are sorting out how they will compete for a profitable slice of a soon-to-be-shinking pie. That limits R&D budgets.

 

3. The Great Recession of 2008 was brutal and the accumulated red ink is probably still a drag on the industry

 

4. The sport-touring segment in particular has been shrinking while, for instance, the adventure segment has been much more popular

 

5. Honda made a good-sized gamble on the VFR 1200 and that gamble was almost certainly a very expensive market-forecasting error. I think Honda drew some bad cards here, with the the recession and the industry shift toward adventure bikes both stomping on the debut of the 1200. I'm not commenting on the desirability of the machine, which some folks here really love, no doubt with good reason. I'm just saying that all indications are that Honda likely took a substantial write-down on the project ledger and that has consequences for their ability and willingness to take another gamble on another re-boot of the VFR line.

 

These trends reinforce each other. Since aggregate demand is no longer growing, but the supply of used motorcycles is growing, and the bikes are not substantially different from year-to-year, the backlog of high-quality used bikes is a real sap on demand for new machines. The primary competitor of a $15K new VFR 1000 might not be a $14K new Ninja 1000 but rather an $8K 2014 VFR 800. Sure, a lot of guys would drop an additional $7K to get the latest greatest, but a lot of other guys would not. Especially frugal guys in their 50s who already own a great bike. That constrains how many units Honda might move and how much they can charge for them, both of which shrink potential R&D budgets relative to those go-go days when we were all younger and the economic and demographic winds were at Honda's back rather than in their face.

 

I think the used-bike dynamic is an under-rated part of why the adventure segment has seemed so popular relative to sport-touring this past decade. If you like sport-touring bikes, the classifieds are filled with fantastic, low-mileage bikes that are ten, fifteen, or even twenty years old. How different is the 2020 FJR from the 2005? But that isn't the case for the Multistradas, S1000XRs, and Africa Twins.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0O8Q0x38mI

 

This is a great time to be a motorcyclist! The selection of new and used bikes is simply extraordinary in terms of both quality and value. And it's an okay (probably not 'great') time to be a mature motorcycle manufacturer. But 2020 is maybe not a good time to be pining for an all-new VFR-based sport-tourer from Honda. Maybe 2023!
 

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Don't forget that the end of petrol-driven engines is nigh. Electric is the new mantra. So those waiting for the nirvana of Vee-Four Riding may be disappointed.

 

The UK Govt has declared that from 2030 onwards there will be no new petrol-driven vehicles on sale in the UK. If other countries follow (and most are likely to), why would they invest $$$ in a totally new bike?

 

Unless of course it's already in the pipeline. One can hope.

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I do agree with you on the point ; and I think its a big one, what are you getting from a 2020 VFR800 that you don't get from a 2014  VFR 800 .  In fact owning 2 older VFR's (1999 & 2000 ) I would go so far as to again ask, what does a 2020 a 2014 or even a 2009 or 2003 VFR give you that a 2000 VFR doesn't , bearing in mind that I picked up a super clean  1999 VFR 800 for £1900 with 14,000 miles on the clock ,  and I would have to pay quite a bit more for anything younger, and thus question what else would I be getting if I pay more money ? All I can think of is heated grips. That  said , I can still get a NEW  VFR 800 for £9999, which I think is cheap .

 

In fact , I think all these " Adventure bikes " sold in their thousands  do no more than go up and down a kerb , and on any given day the second hand market is awash with these bikes that many people bought but haven't used very much , find too heavy , too tall , many have been dropped  and certainly they haven't been on any adventures. I think as you stated its more a fashion fad than anything else. Take BMW GS 1200 and I am not looking to insult anyone who has one, but they are pig ugly , heavy , not as reliable as they would make you believe , stupid expensive to buy and run and I think the quality is so so , and thats by looking at bikes offered by main dealers over here.  I know what a quality bike looks like and I know about BMW automotive quality  having  owned BMW's for the last 25 years , but I think GS's are only average. 

 

Maybe I am stuck in the past , who knows but what I do know  the pre V/Tech VFR's are of exceptional quality , and I challenge anyone to find a 20 year old motorcycle that has been used regularly that not only works but still scrubs up well.  I have restored 3 VFR's so far . None needed engine work, and all had common issues. Oil cooler pipes , rusty bar on the rear subframe and fork legs paint coming off. 2000's  VFR's with O2 sensors, the collector boxes rot  and front brake pistons can corrode. Thats it really. 

 

As for the sentiment that someone else said here, that they have a corner of their garage set out for their old VFR's and if they can't ride them then they shal be riding nothing , because  they shan't be riding the electric crap being forced upon us . Sir ,  I 100% agree with you  . Motorcycles are NOT the pollution problem the greens would have you believe and it is my personal opinion that all these electric cars/ bikes are worse for the environment than fossil fuels and actually the future is Hydrogen , but thats a different conversation . 

 

I have looked and tried many bikes , but always end up coming back to the VFR . Clearly I have issues.

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Over in the Instagram world, there's a "concept bike artist" Kar Lee. He has two Instagrams accounts (@kardesignkonceptsbeen & @motokand) where he updates classic motorcycles including modern versions of the RC30 and RC40.

 

From kardesignkoncepts"
"Honda should build a V4 sportsbike that doesn’t cost £137,000.
Even a tuned up VFR800 with a more performance-orientated bias would do it. It’d be fast, smooth, and affordable, like a cross between an old VFR750, RC30, and the latest rich man’s toy RC213-V. Are you game?"

 

Below a few examples of his work:

Also, there's a motorcycle shop in LA (Santa Monica Airport) (@iconicmotorbikes), 
that's having one of their 3 NR's painted black, custom exhaust and updating the suspension. It may look something like the Black NR below but with the original NR body.
 

 

image.png.dc7503a2ed087b8c40a383192c54afe0.png

 

 

 

image.png.a54128d668dd5a4079e2411ae5f6e1e7.png

 

 

image.png.be99400d164ccb98f7b1b4229245be07.png

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On 12/31/2020 at 10:50 AM, Skids said:

Don't forget that the end of petrol-driven engines is nigh. Electric is the new mantra. So those waiting for the nirvana of Vee-Four Riding may be disappointed.

 

The UK Govt has declared that from 2030 onwards there will be no new petrol-driven vehicles on sale in the UK. If other countries follow (and most are likely to), why would they invest $$$ in a totally new bike?

 

Unless of course it's already in the pipeline. One can hope.

 

Man, isn't that sad...  I'm going to miss the sound a VFR makes going through the gears.  Hopefully it will still be legal for us to ride in 2030, and we're not limited by mileage.

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On 12/30/2020 at 8:49 PM, St. Stephen said:

 

Geez Cogs, you forgot to mention the asteroid that will no doubt hit hit the earth next week.  😐

 

Maybe this will provide a little optimism for the future:

 

https://www.motorcycle.com/features/the-lightfighter-electric-superbike-is-back-and-better-than-ever.html

 

also, while I totally agree with all your points re Honda, we should note that they do spend >$30M every year on a V4 world championship bike.

 

A motorcycle with no soul, a playstation-like throttle and a long road of development ahead of it until it can charge quickly and come at an affordable price point with decent components.  Cool, I guess...  

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As an owner now driving my second electric car I can in fact saying that I’m never going back to gasoline powered car.  Having said that I love gasoline powered motorcycles and the VFR in particular. Since there is a lot of wishing going on in this thread and if I could get my way I would love to have a V4 powered Honda in a touring roadster like the BMW R1200R. I would be happy with the current power plant too but certainly wouldn’t mind an updated design. 

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