Motogp 2015 Season . . . Five Manufacturers! W/spoilers

[interceptorrider]

Why isn't anybody talking about what happened before the crash?

I guess I am one of the few that sides with Rossi. If you look at what race direction said then you can see that Marquez was in fact trying to deliberately slow the pace, just like Rossi accused him of doing at Philip Island."Despite what Marquez said, we think he was deliberately trying to affect the pace of Valentino." -MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb

"It's my opinion on the way he was riding, the lap time, my perception is that as many riders do he (Marquez) was trying to change the race." -MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb

On top of that I personally think Marquez was deliberately trying to create contact scenarios. Of course Rossi didn't want to crash because he had a championship at stake.

In regards to the incident, I believe Rossi obviously had the line and did in fact choose to run Marquez wide and slow him down enough to try to get away from him. I believe his three looks towards Marquez was to make sure he avoided contact while trying to run him wide while at the same time saying "stop doing what you are doing". At that point I believe Marquez CLEARLY accelerated and leaned into Rossi setting up contact for sure this time, trying to make him crash, but caused his own crash (Marquez helmet to Rossi's knee and Rossi's knee reaction).

WATCH THIS CLIP! Pay attention to the :17 second mark.

I am sure Rossi regrets running him wide.

Not sure Marquez regrets his part in it.

Ditto. I've watched their portion of the race several times. It was obvious to me the first time through (on DVR at 5am Sunday morning) that Marquez was only interested in hassling Rossi. Rossi tried a couple times to get him to stop and just race........meaning get to the finish line in your best possible position. I was shocked at what happened, but feel Marquez is to blame. You picked a fight, you got it. It didn't look to me that Rossi intended to drop him. When Marquez leaned it hard, he brought it on himself. I'm not a huge Rossi fan and I was a Marquez fan. Not now. That was bullship! I have no empathy for what he was doing. Also, let's face it.......none of the top four guys have any problems knocking someone out of the way (even if they crash). Marquez initiated the actual contact with Rossi. That video was perfect. If he were my son I would say to him, "Really? What did you expect kid?"

I'm just sayin'.

Mark

PS. By the way, I sold my last VFR (of 4) a year ago and I'm riding a KTM 990 SMT now. When this happened in MotoGP, I came here. I knew there would be differing and passionate opinions without the insults and slurs toward each other that the anonymity the internet is famous for. Thanks for the spitired and polite discussion your having. Ride safe.

[01ragtop]

I love the people calling MM "kid" saying he got what he deserved. He got what we wanted. He won. VR lost his cool, called MM on his head games, and couldn't take the pressure of MM screwing with him. VR intentionally slowed the pace and took MM wide. At that point MM had to lean in or go off track, and when he did he went down, but it was VR that blinked, it was VR that couldn't take the heat, it was VR that allowed his frustration to take over and intentionally run another racer wide, and now the master of the mind game and ice cold riding is showing his character. MM is obviously out to get in VR's head, but he rode a clean run, annoying, but clean.

[luvtoleanit]

Dirty business here. Several attempts to cause a crash. The video doesn't back your statements up. Rossi had to do something, this was just out of hand and someone could have gotten seriously hurt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3u3DpmL8GM

[luvtoleanit]

Not my words but best post I have found of the entire incident.

A few key points here to discuss (as impartial as possible

My problem is race direction is terribly unclear and appears to contradict itself.

1 Marquez denies trying to slow Rossi down on purpose, however race direction does not agree and believes he did exactly that. This confirms Rossi's statements at the Thursday pre event press conference. However, this IS NOT against the rules. They concluded that BOTH riders are at fault, per Mike Webb. They penalise one, despite "both" being "at fault."

2 Rossi performs a wide block pass (which is allowed) then waits for Marquez to get off the line, which he never does. Marquez initially pauses, stands the bike up - Rossi confirms this with a glance and waits - Marquez does not yield to the block - Rossi checks his own line briefly and then back to Marquez again - again Marquez does not yield to the block. Rossi finally abandons the block and continues into the turn - almost simultaneously Marquez creates contact by throttling into Rossi's bike making contact with the left leg. Briefly after, Marquez crashes. There are multiple slow motion video available to substantiate this fact.

3 Race direction says there is no conclusive video evidence to support either riders claim of intention, pertaining to the "kick" despite the fact that substantial slow mo video is readily available across the internet showing Marquez creating contact and Rossi shaking off the contact; both events with eyes forward (not looking at Marquez.) This is significant because it shows intent/no intent. And it shows who actually created contact. It also shows Rossi shook of the contact by opening his hip, and slightly appearing to push. At this exact moment, Marquez front tire washes out and not at the initial moment of contact. Rossi could not have known he was pushing against Marquez's handlebar, because he was not looking at neither Marquez nor his handlebar. Race direction simply gets this wrong because they penalise the rider for irresponsible riding (creating contact and forcing another rider wide - the latter, which is NOT against the rules) and not for the "kick." They got the wrong rider for contact and block passing is actually not illegal. Whether or not pushing blindly against contact with an appendage (arm, elbow, leg) is illegal, needs to be clarified and if so, needs to be penalised.

4 Marquez was not penalised despite creating the contact and BOTH riders deemed to be at fault.

5 And finally, Lorenzo made an ILLEGAL pass under yellow and needs to be penalised.

Conclusion:

1 Unpopular as it may sound, either penalty points for Rossi should stand, with equal penalty for Marquez (3 points to the race licence and start from the back of the grid) or the whole event reevaluated under the actual factual evidence - Marquez creating contact- and interpretation to the rule pertaining to a blind push/kick reaction to contact - and a reissue of more/less points to each rider.

2 Lorenzo penalised 1 grid position for passing under a yellow flag.

[YoshiHNS]

Disappointment. Should have just stayed behind him and saved his grip/fuel for the last few laps. Or just keep sticking it in enough to force MM to push and wear his front down. Could have had a much classier/smarter ride to beat MM. Now he surely lost his 10th title.

[luvtoleanit]

So much intel pouring out today.

https://twitter.com/btsportmotogp/status/658196460819709952

What is Lorenzo doing up in race direction shouting and screaming for an incident he had no part in on the track? Something stinks and it isn't Rossi's actions.

[Switchblade]

Rossi's only chance is if it rain's. One thing is for sure NOBODY beats Rossi in the rain .

[Dutchy]

Lorenzo denied having gone to race direction.

This is beginning to look like a presidental election ballot in Florida during the Bush era.... :-)

[keef]

Rossi's career is full of incredibly hard overtaking moves that have been border line where Rossi came off better in those encounters, and they were judged to be race incidents, not dirty. Usually they happened with people who were willing, and capable, of dogfights with him. Racers who were as good as he was on the day. Rossi came off best because the other guy blinked first. And Rossi can ride with slick tyres on dirt, grass and gravel, he is a talented mofo.

This time, neither of them blinked.

Marquez probably didn't think Rossi would run him off the track, and Rossi thought Marquez would back off.

Neither man blinked.

I honestly believe that Marquez rides like Rossi 10 years ago. When Rossi was a young world champ, I don't think there was anyone else at the same level, as Doohan had retired through injury- Rossi got a great start by getting Doohans old team/mechanics. This time around, the old guard and the new are as talented as each other.

[01ragtop]

Yep, don't lose sight of the fact that the only reason MM was able to overtake so many times was because VR had been overtaking him too. In fact, VR almost fell off trying to pass.

I wanted VR to win over JL, but if he is the stoic champion everyone thinks he is, he should have been able to take the heat MM was dishing out.

I'm not entirely convinced that MM was slowing just to get in VR's way at PI, but after the comments VR made last week, I don't blame MM for messing with him. If someone made public accusations like that about me, I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing myself.

[Auspanglish]

[Corey]

Based on the immediate comments from other riders, I honestly don't think they have seen the more revealing video angles. If they had they would be saying something very different, in favor of Rossi. At the very least seeing that Rossi did not "kick" Marquez.

Bottom line is Lorenzo feels like Rossi should get zero points for Sepang just like Marquez.

SO...

...the way I see it, Rossi has to win from the back in Valencia OR Lorenzo has to crash out and Rossi has to place 7th or better. At that point Rossi would have enough points to please EVERYONE (including Lorenzo) to the point of accepting him as a legitimate World Champion.

The only way I will honestly view Lorenzo as World Champion is if he beats Rossi in Valencia, but not from Rossi starting at the back of the grid.

[Duc2V4]

Based on the immediate comments from other riders, I honestly don't think they have seen the more revealing video angles. If they had they would be saying something very different, in favor of Rossi. At the very least seeing that Rossi did not "kick" Marquez.

Bottom line is Lorenzo feels like Rossi should get zero points for Sepang just like Marquez.

SO...

...the way I see it, Rossi has to win from the back in Valencia OR Lorenzo has to crash out and Rossi has to place 7th or better. At that point Rossi would have enough points to please EVERYONE (including Lorenzo) to the point of accepting him as a legitimate World Champion.

The only way I will honestly view Lorenzo as World Champion is if he beats Rossi in Valencia, but not from Rossi starting at the back of the grid.

I've mentioned this before, both Pedrosa and Marquez have won races from the back of the grid, so Rossi should be able to as well. It would be hard but if he truly wants this championship, that's what he'll have to try and do.

[St. Stephen]

I was as blown away as everyone else when I saw MM go down, but would like to challenge a couple of assumptions running through this thread, i.e.:

1. VR wants another title more than anything else.

2. VR got so annoyed with MM that he lost it and made him crash.

I predict that within a year or two VR will be seen as the martyr, and MM the eternal jerk. Remember, a few laps prior, VR looked back and waved MM on, saying "let's go catch Jorge." But no.

The incredible VR46 marketing machine will continue to generate in excess of $30m/year, while the Spaniards will continue to wonder how they can win and still lose. Vale didn't need another title, he just needed a great story.

[HispanicSlammer]

Why isn't anybody talking about what happened before the crash?

I guess I am one of the few that sides with Rossi. If you look at what race direction said then you can see that Marquez was in fact trying to deliberately slow the pace, just like Rossi accused him of doing at Philip Island.

"Despite what Marquez said, we think he was deliberately trying to affect the pace of Valentino." -MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb

"It's my opinion on the way he was riding, the lap time, my perception is that as many riders do he (Marquez) was trying to change the race." -MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb

On top of that I personally think Marquez was deliberately trying to create contact scenarios. Of course Rossi didn't want to crash because he had a championship at stake.

In regards to the incident, I believe Rossi obviously had the line and did in fact choose to run Marquez wide and slow him down enough to try to get away from him. I believe his three looks towards Marquez was to make sure he avoided contact while trying to run him wide while at the same time saying "stop doing what you are doing". At that point I believe Marquez CLEARLY ACCELERATED AND LEANED INTO ROSSI (see clip below) setting up contact for sure this time, trying to make him crash, but caused his own crash (Marquez helmet to Rossi's knee and Rossi's knee reaction).

WATCH THIS CLIP! Pay attention to the :17 second mark.

I am sure Rossi regrets running him wide.

Not sure Marquez regrets his part in it.

that angle shows marquez initiated contact not rossi wow...he definitely speeded up and hit him first with his helmet. The kick was just a reflex

[garyr]

I bet Honda are furious with mm. They will be supporting him to the media, but they lost a guaranteed honda 1-2 on the podium because of his antics. Malaysia is one of hondas biggest markets and that clown just blew it for them.

[Auspanglish]

Remember, a few laps prior, VR looked back and waved MM on, saying "let's go catch Jorge." But no.

I would have sworn he's flipping MM the bird, just like he did to Biaggi way back.

[tbzep]

I know one thing, the read/post counts in this and similar threads in other forums have skyrocketed!

[huntinggunns]

Remember, a few laps prior, VR looked back and waved MM on, saying "let's go catch Jorge." But no.

I would have sworn he's flipping MM the bird, just like he did to Biaggi way back.

Guess I need to watch that part of the video again. I also thought Val was flipping off Marc.

[Dutchy]

He raised his hand in despair and shouted "waddableebbleebyouwantaeh?"

But as I read things, it is what it is now.

Race direction decided, appeal to FIM, FIM supported the decision.

So Rossi starts from the back. Or he refuses to start.

If he does the latter, then I will removed the 46 decals from redslut

Life sucks sometimes, you pick yourself up and move on.

[Kel]

I live in New England and so I've heard from every die hard Tom Brady fan that he knew nothing of deflated footballs and he would never do such a thing and he's a professional and he could win anyway and it's just the media trying to tarnish him and blah blah blah. Those fans will NEVER change their minds even if presented with video of him deflating them himself. The rest of the country who doesn't care one way or another clearly sees that the circumstantial evidence and common sense would dictate that he obviously knew the balls were under inflated, he wasn't even a good liar at his press conference.

The same goes for Rossi fans. They are going to see it a way that paints Rossi in a good light and put a spin on every little action to show no wrong doing. That's what it means to be a fan. The rest of the world clearly sees that Rossi lost his cool, ran MM wide...super wide. Rossi was slowing so much that, at some point, MM decided to finally gas it and get on with the race rather than put a foot down and wait for a competitor to resume race pace, and when you gas it in a corner...guess what...you have to lean in to make that happen(hence the contact). I would have done the same thing...you wanna slow down in the middle of a corner, stare me down while doing it, I'm going around you on the outside and wave on my way by.

As far as MM letting Rossi pass him so he could re-pass him during the first 6 laps is pretty funny as well. Rossi is an amazing rider, he can pass anyone, anywhere. If you want to slow him down, you would try to stay in front and get as big as you can so he never gets by. That's how you slow down a 9 time World Champion. Rossi was passing MM cause he could, not because MM let him.

Rossi lost repect points with me and I hate to say it, but after watching the post race press conference, Danny has somehow wormed his way back up my respect ladder. Back on pace, winning races and I felt bad when he was talking about not knowing the feeling of being champion.

Rossi at the back of the pack is no big deal. He'll pass all the customer bikes before the 2nd turn and should have no problem gettting towards the front. It will all boil down to who is going to get in front of JL.

[Auspanglish]

Both Rossi and Marquez are very aggressive riders and never back down to anyone in a showdown of talent and bravery... stop the whinging about Marquez hampering Rossi... they are both going at it tooth and nail and Rossi has equally been a thorn in many riders' sides when they have been on equal form and presented a challenge.

The question is Rossi crossed the line (read "race rules") and he himself admits he deliberately did so and tried to go wide and slow Marquez down and looked at him thinking, and I quote: "What the **** are you doing?" and has been rightly sanctioned. Of course he will say he didn't mean to knock him off the bike and we can't possibly know if that's true, same as no-one can prove that Marquez was doing anything to deliberately favour Jorge (something I doubt as he could have given him 5 points more at PI) and even if he was, he did nothing outside the rules.

The rest is heresay.

Rossi couldn't take the heat and admits he, and again I quote: "had to do something".

Pretty poor "something" he chose to do... instead of proving he was a better racer in a proper shoot out... that's what you are earning millions for, racing, not cloak and dagger tabloid stuff.

[Conedodger]

Rossi lost repect points with me and I hate to say it, but after watching the post race press conference, Danny has somehow wormed his way back up my respect ladder. Back on pace, winning races and I felt bad when he was talking about not knowing the feeling of being champion.

That sums up my feelings too!

[SEBSPEED]

Rossi lost repect points with me and I hate to say it, but after watching the post race press conference, Danny has somehow wormed his way back up my respect ladder. Back on pace, winning races and I felt bad when he was talking about not knowing the feeling of being champion.

That sums up my feelings too!

x2, I felt the same way.

What a weird feeling!!

[Conedodger]

I feel conflicted. I've got Rossi and Marquez decals on my winter car.

I may have to remove them and use the Colin Edwards decals I've been saving.

.