Allyance Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Also rubber seal is not the correct diameter and does not mate up properly to VFR's. Too many other reputable filters to chance a catastrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesjonz1 Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Thanks for the heads up... Glad you are around to tell the tale. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhenley17 Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I never knew changing an oil filter could be so challenging. I've had a few get stuck on my bikes, the original on my VFR broke a screwdriver, then just ripped when I got a beefier one, but some of these posts take it way too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriverDave Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I had 2 fail at the welded on nut (dripping, not catastrophic). After that, I only ever used the hiflo with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted June 16, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2016 I would regard myself as well informed and moderately intelligent, and I had no idea that the nut on a K&N filter was NOT to be used for installation. I don't recall there being any advisory text on the filter or packaging either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted June 16, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2016 2 hours ago, DriverDave said: I had 2 fail at the welded on nut (dripping, not catastrophic). After that, I only ever used the hiflo with no issues. The one good thing I've learned from this post is I will NEVER bother with a K & N oil filter. Only ever used the OEM or HiFlow HF204's with no issues at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinigami Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Again, these filters can fail WITHOUT USING THE NUT TO TIGHTEN. It is simply a bad design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted June 16, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2016 15 hours ago, DriverDave said: I had 2 fail at the welded on nut (dripping, not catastrophic). After that, I only ever used the hiflo with no issues. Ironically, I read that HiFlo makes the K&N filters... Sorry, I cannot buy the idea that "over-torquing" the nut on the end of a metal filter housing could cause any kind of failure. How much torque are we talking about, anyway? Enough to start to twist the welded nut off the sheet metal? Who TF uses that much torque installing an oil filter? If the failures are related to the nut area, the apparent manufacturing defect was most likely present before (and after) anyone got near it with a wrench... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Egg on Leggs Posted June 16, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2016 My memory fails me, is the nut welded to a plate that is spot welded to the filter body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted June 16, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2016 4 hours ago, JZH said: Ironically, I read that HiFlo makes the K&N filters... Sorry, I cannot buy the idea that "over-torquing" the nut on the end of a metal filter housing could cause any kind of failure. How much torque are we talking about, anyway? Enough to start to twist the welded nut off the sheet metal? Who TF uses that much torque installing an oil filter? If the failures are related to the nut area, the apparent manufacturing defect was most likely present before (and after) anyone got near it with a wrench... Ciao, According to the 2002-2009 Honda FSM, 20 ft. lbs is called for on the Oil Filter (Engine Oil Filter Cartridge). Oil drain bolt is listed at 22 ft. lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriverDave Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 It isn't really a nut. It's thin metal sheet that's stamped into the shape of a nut with a small flange on the bottom that is then spot welded to the filter. I think on some of them, the welder is set too hot and it burns through a little bit, causing a thin spot that eventually either leaks slowly, or fails suddenly with a large fracture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted June 16, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2016 It seems odd to me that there have been reports of this type of failure from owners for at least the last 5 years and yet they just keep churning them out. Like it seems with everything else, something extremely serious will probably need to happen for it to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted June 17, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2016 Apparently, a picture is worth a thousand words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ultimatevfr Posted June 17, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2016 Well that worked for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted June 17, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Terry said: Apparently, a picture is worth a thousand words... I've saved this pic in my archives... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatshoutybloke Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Terry said: Apparently, a picture is worth a thousand words... Jeez. How much of that trail is from the filter, and how much from the pilot's trousers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 On the K&N website it does mention that the nut can be used for both installation and removal. http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=KN-204 Quote K&N powersports oil filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration. K&N powersports 'spin-on' oil filters feature a heavy-duty metal can. Most of these have a 17 mm nut affixed onto the end that allows for easy installation and removal. The 17 mm nut is crossed-drilled so racers can safety wire the filter to their bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinigami Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Waiting for the next monkey who wants to make this the fault of the installler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted June 17, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2016 Similar photos from Olive's experience with a K&N filter in 2011 . . . Thread is here http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/topic/66717-six-weeks-a-tent-and-a-vfr-updated-november-12th-traffic-with-a-capitol-t-hollywood-and-the-score-wind-1-olive-0-day-4148/&do=findComment&comment=781447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Lorne Posted June 18, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2016 20 years ago it was Fram filters that were infamous for failing: Fram PH6017 Insufficient threads secured the filter to the engine. More info (though potentially dated) on motorcycle oil filters here: http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/fram.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer lazyeye Posted June 18, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2016 Gratuitous oily tire photo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fink Posted June 18, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2016 http://www.knfilters.co.uk/wrenchoff_oilfilter.aspx http://www.knfilters.co.uk/motorcycle_oil_filters.aspx http://www.knfilters.co.uk/search/appsearch.aspx?type=ps&year=2014&make=HONDA&model=VFR800 Interceptor&engine=782 strangely how they are called wrench off filters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosfandango Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 It is not worth saving a few pennies on oil or filters, stick to an original Honda oil filter, at least you may have some redress if it all goes wrong....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I use the K&N filter mainly for the ease of the front nut install but I don't torque the filter down just do it up to a resistance I'm happy with, but I have had one leak from o-ring over time & heat cycles. After reading this thread I'm not using them anymore, it is better to be safe than sorry, thanks for posting op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHvar Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 With my old CBR600F4 after so many years of using the Fram filter I had 2 choices to pick from, the K&N, and the OEM Honda filter because Fram stopped making the filter I used for years on that bike. The fram cost me $6.99, the OEM Honda cost me $10 if I remember right (it was a much longer drive to get one), and the K&N was $12.99 or so. I used a K&N for around 3 oil changes, there was a very small leak from under the nut on K&N filter number 3 (3rd year using K&N oil filters), but it was small enough that I had to look closely to see where it came from. That K&N filter was difficult to remove (not sure why, I always hand install oil filters snug only), it was the first time I ever used the nut on the filter to remove one, it started to round off and suddenly the spot welded sheet metal nut just popped off of the filter easily revealing a very small leak where one of the spot welds (there are a few small spot welds holding the sheet metal nut on only) burned right through the filter casing, or it rusted through the spot weld. The nut was rusted around the edge, rusted on the spot welds, and rusted under the nut, the other K&N filters did not have this problem, I wonder if they found another supplier to get their filters made at some point in time. After this experience I never bought another K&N filter, a few years later I see thousands of complaints online about K&N oil filters leaking under and around the nut on all types of vehicles, the nut breaking off, rusting, and some of the filters leaking suddenly and very badly while riding/driving. For my 2014 VFR800 I will only use the OEM Honda filter unless I can find Fram filters for it, maybe. I pay $10.99 for an OEM filter at the dealership. Just changed the oil today in fact. My original oil filter put up a big fight coming off at 600 miles, I had to punch a hole through the filter with a long screwdriver and turn the filter loose, why would anyone ever tighten an oil filter that much? I always clean the contact surface on the engine with a rag and check the new filters gasket, then put a bit of oil on the oil filter gasket before installing it by hand only. I dont know the amount of torque because I have installed oil filters by hand for 26 years plus and never measured it. I believe its turn until gasket contact, then tighten 1/2 turn by hand only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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