keef Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 His insurance company will always say your fault, unless the police say otherwise. That is their job, to make it someone else's fault. They will say that you suddenly moved to the right without giving way, he didn't have time to slow down to avoid you. Watching the vid, I could tell he was doing the same kind of thing you mentioned, owning his piece of road. I could tell he was making it hard for you to filter, which isn't illegal. Unfortunately, bikes will lose in this kind of turf war. It doesn't matter who is at fault if you are in hospital, does it? Similar things happen to me in Sydney, but I just wait it out and get around them later. Unless you go to the cops and they say it's his fault, you may just have to suck it up, princess. Just buy a new mirror to get it fixed now and if you decide to chase it, keep the receipt for the cost to get reimbursed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 His insurance company will always say your fault, unless the police say otherwise. That is their job, to make it someone else's fault. Where I live, and rules may differ by region, insurance companies do not make the fault determination. If two vehicles are involved a police report is required. Call the insurance company, either yours or the opposition, and they will tell you to fill out a police report. Ergo, whatever the report says determines the action that they take. If an insurance company accepts the fault for the mirror, then all of a sudden they are legally liable for all damages, such as a million dollar back surgery that you discover the accident also caused. They would never set themselves up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted February 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 29, 2016 I'm glad you were not knocked over! Could have been way worse if he had come a bit closer............. In the video, it looks like you came to a complete stop just as he hit your mirror, which may have surprised him as he was clearly not paying attention. It looks like The main mirror assembly is $76.50 (http://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/a/hon/50f091d1f87002067062560e/mirror) so it would most likely be a waste of time to pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 It's probably just rounded off the thread on whatever retaining bolt is in there, I've not had the mirrors off yet but I'm going to sand and spray mine as they have marks. Folding it back reveals two sunk bolts, I'm assuming there's another one that works through the centre for the mirror to rotate on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 2 nuts under the trim piece inside the shield and the electrical connector your deductible is prob more than the cost of the mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotardMenace Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 His insurance company will always say your fault, unless the police say otherwise. That is their job, to make it someone else's fault. Where I live, and rules may differ by region, insurance companies do not make the fault determination. If two vehicles are involved a police report is required. It must be different by region because here is Arizona where I have investigated thousands of collisions we never determine fault, the insurance company does that. We issue applicable citations when it is possible to determine a civil/criminal traffic law was broken during the collision but that does not determine fault always. I think it goes a long ways to determining fault in your run of the mill rear-end collision etc. but on more complex collisions the insurance company may still assign percentages of blame to the collision even when only one party gets a citation. I think in some states they have no-fault laws which means your insurance pays for your crap and the other guy/gals insurance pays for theirs. Bottom line I don't know any bankrupt insurance companies............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted February 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 29, 2016 Regardless of fault, did he stop and exchange details with you? Not doing so is an offense under s.170 RTA 1988. If details were not exchanged at the scene, each driver, including you, is required to report the incident to the police. The police will not prosecute in most cases, but will send out a s.172 notice to the van's registered keeper, which should eventually identify the driver, to allow the incident to be resolved by the respective insurers. Speaking of which, your insurer may require you to report the incident to them regardless of whether you make a claim. Your policy will state the exact requirements applying to you. However, most insurance companies will ask upon renewal if there have been any incidents, regardless of fault, and you would be committing fraud if you failed to disclose... (Yes, that means your premium may increase, even if you do not make a claim against anyone...) Thanks for the advice. He didn't actually stop to exchange details, I had to pull up next to him and tell him to pull over, and was reluctant at first, but eventually did. I kept my camera rolling for the entire time talking to him, just in case, as you never know how some people in London will react. I also called my insurer, and they said I don't have to report it if I don't want to make a claim, regardless if it was my fault or not. But then I fall into the trap of my premium going up and all that too. Hmmmmm.... I wonder when it comes time to renew my cover and they ask the question have I ever been in an accident in the last 12 months, will they have kept a record of me calling up and asking about how the claiming system works when someone took my mirror off..? Legal systems treat things like traffic accidents very differently, so what would happen in the 'States is mostly irrelevant. The driver did stop, and I suppose he then gave you the contact details you used to speak with his company? Police will not be interested, then, as this will be treated as a civil matter for the individuals to sort out by themselves (or via their insurers). Insurance disclosure requirements vary by insurer, so all you can do is read your policy and see what it says about your notification obligations. What you need to say upon renewal depends entirely on what questions you are asked. You no longer have to volunteer "all relevant information" (the old standard in the UK). Your options would seem to be (a) to claim against the other driver's insurance, which might go 50:50 with you/your insurer, (b) to take them to small claims court yourself, or © live and learn and pay for the repair yourself. (Filing a claim with your insurer would be a non-starter, as the compensation would likely not exceed your excess.) Personally, I think you'd struggle to get the other party to accept liability, and I'm not sure a court would be prepared to give you 100%. However, the driver not stopping immediately after certainly becoming aware of the accident could be the sort of thing that sways a judge...(maybe if he/she is a biker!) Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFR4Lee Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Well, you missed your chance for street justice, punching them in the face. Also missed out on getting arrested for assault and battery. Punched dude in face, but he needed it officer! Finish rant. Buy mirror, move on down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted March 1, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 1, 2016 "But Bobby he deserved it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 To me, filtering is a get ahead or get hurt situation. I spend no time sat behind vehicles or along side them (for as much as I can actively help it). I feel much safer between two cars at speed than I do behind one and in front of the other, either sitting still or plonking along. I feel much safer riding on the off side of someone so I'm right in their view from the mirror before I make a calculated overtake/fast filter...I can also watch for hand movements, head movements, slight tyre directional changes that way...all things that indicate something is about to go down. As I said earlier, I know exactly where I would have shot ahead in this situation. If this were to have happened to me, I'd give the guy a roasting and ride on, repair it myself or buy a new mirror. Going down the insurance or claims route is utterly futile for something (arguably) cheap like a mirror - it'll cost you more in the long run for simply announcing it at renewal time. It's going to happen when riding around London, it's the safest place to ride in the UK, but a cesspool of absolute shit heaps commanding big heavy vehicles are ever present. You gotta be fast in every conceivable way, being "cautious" is more likely to get you hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingT Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 To me, filtering is a get ahead or get hurt situation. I spend no time sat behind vehicles or along side them (for as much as I can actively help it). I feel much safer between two cars at speed than I do behind one and in front of the other, either sitting still or plonking along. I feel much safer riding on the off side of someone so I'm right in their view from the mirror before I make a calculated overtake/fast filter...I can also watch for hand movements, head movements, slight tyre directional changes that way...all things that indicate something is about to go down. As I said earlier, I know exactly where I would have shot ahead in this situation. If this were to have happened to me, I'd give the guy a roasting and ride on, repair it myself or buy a new mirror. Going down the insurance or claims route is utterly futile for something (arguably) cheap like a mirror - it'll cost you more in the long run for simply announcing it at renewal time. It's going to happen when riding around London, it's the safest place to ride in the UK, but a cesspool of absolute shit heaps commanding big heavy vehicles are ever present. You gotta be fast in every conceivable way, being "cautious" is more likely to get you hurt. Couldn't agree more John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted March 1, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 1, 2016 To me, filtering is a get ahead or get hurt situation. I spend no time sat behind vehicles or along side them (for as much as I can actively help it). I feel much safer between two cars at speed than I do behind one and in front of the other, either sitting still or plonking along. I feel much safer riding on the off side of someone so I'm right in their view from the mirror before I make a calculated overtake/fast filter...I can also watch for hand movements, head movements, slight tyre directional changes that way...all things that indicate something is about to go down. As I said earlier, I know exactly where I would have shot ahead in this situation. If this were to have happened to me, I'd give the guy a roasting and ride on, repair it myself or buy a new mirror. Going down the insurance or claims route is utterly futile for something (arguably) cheap like a mirror - it'll cost you more in the long run for simply announcing it at renewal time. It's going to happen when riding around London, it's the safest place to ride in the UK, but a cesspool of absolute shit heaps commanding big heavy vehicles are ever present. You gotta be fast in every conceivable way, being "cautious" is more likely to get you hurt. Couldn't agree more John. All that is fine, until someone opens a door. Take it from someone who thought the same way about filtering. Before someone opened a door. It's amazing how quickly one changes his mind... When someone opens a door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 To me, filtering is a get ahead or get hurt situation. I spend no time sat behind vehicles or along side them (for as much as I can actively help it). I feel much safer between two cars at speed than I do behind one and in front of the other, either sitting still or plonking along. I feel much safer riding on the off side of someone so I'm right in their view from the mirror before I make a calculated overtake/fast filter...I can also watch for hand movements, head movements, slight tyre directional changes that way...all things that indicate something is about to go down. As I said earlier, I know exactly where I would have shot ahead in this situation. If this were to have happened to me, I'd give the guy a roasting and ride on, repair it myself or buy a new mirror. Going down the insurance or claims route is utterly futile for something (arguably) cheap like a mirror - it'll cost you more in the long run for simply announcing it at renewal time. It's going to happen when riding around London, it's the safest place to ride in the UK, but a cesspool of absolute shit heaps commanding big heavy vehicles are ever present. You gotta be fast in every conceivable way, being "cautious" is more likely to get you hurt. Couldn't agree more John. All that is fine, until someone opens a door. Take it from someone who thought the same way about filtering. Before someone opened a door. It's amazing how quickly one changes his mind... When someone opens a door Or someone who decides to text while approaching stand still traffic, turning you into a not so yummy meat filler in a metal sandwich. Filtering is the safest way to get about, ipso facto. Chances of someone opening a door on you is zero to nil in moving traffic. If you're filtering fast enough in stand still traffic AND close enough to cars to risk getting seriously injured by a door being opened, you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer adeyren Posted March 1, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 1, 2016 Key to filtering is observation, observation and more observation. Personally i watch the drivers head in slow traffic ie is his/her head bobbing up and down, if so they are txting, very common i find. I filter all the time, you just have to prepare for every possible scenario. With the traffic in our major towns now its the only way to get around at a decent pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Don't understand , if you know his insurance company and obviously its a company van, why is it hard to file a claim, plus you have the video. You can take pictures of the bike and get it fixed and still file with his insurance company. AGAIN, that's a company Van, you should have no isses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted March 2, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 2, 2016 You don't need to involve your own insurance company, other than informing them as previously stated. Get White Dalton or RSS on the phone & ask their advice. I've used RTSS twice for no fault accidents and I haven't lost any NCB or had premiums increase yet got full costs back. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanmenie Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 You don't need to involve your own insurance company, other than informing them as previously stated. Get White Dalton or RSS on the phone & ask their advice. I've used RTSS twice for no fault accidents and I haven't lost any NCB or had premiums increase yet got full costs back. Good call Skids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonRocket2 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 As much as it grates I'd be tempted to put it down to experience and swallow the cost of replacing the mirror. I think any claim will come up with a 50 - 50 knock for knock result. On who's fault, I'd say just remember the golden rule of never giving up safety for road position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I will tell you - from experience - that if your own insurance company gets the record that you were involved in an accident, minor or not, and you did NOT file a claim against the other party, they will assume you were the guilty party and may ding you with a rate increase - even if you don't file a claim against your own policy. For this reason, I would never give up on filing a claim regardless of the amount, if I believe the other party is at fault. The final agreed-upon settlement is immaterial. To me, the evidence is fairly clear cut in your favor. The collision happened when the other vehicle struck your vehicle in the process of passing you in the same lane your vehicle occupied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted March 2, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 2, 2016 To me, the evidence is fairly clear cut in your favor. The collision happened when the other vehicle struck your vehicle in the process of passing you in the same lane your vehicle occupied. Unless the court/insurance company thinks he moved into the path of the other vehicle without indicating. Then he's stuffed... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fink Posted March 2, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 2, 2016 I see it from this point of view. Which part of the road narrows. The left hand side. The middle will always remain the middle. Whilst the van driver moved left to clear the tail of the turning vehicle he moved far fight and back to the centre line. You Fannied about with your road positioning. Dominate your position or loose it. He could have eased back just as you could have moved over to the left. His tyres were on the edge of the white lines so effectively you were deliberately squeezing him out. I would put it down to a 50-50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer deltaboxii Posted March 2, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 2, 2016 Hmmm. I think he should have lost a mirror also. Then he would have had to explain that to his boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 To me, the evidence is fairly clear cut in your favor. The collision happened when the other vehicle struck your vehicle in the process of passing you in the same lane your vehicle occupied. Unless the court/insurance company thinks he moved into the path of the other vehicle without indicating. Then he's stuffed... Ciao, If the other vehicle had rear-ended the VFR1200, would there be any doubt as to who was at fault? The fact that the collision resulted in a clipped mirror does not change the fact that there was a collision caused by a vehicle coming up from behind and striking the motorcycle. It is next to impossible to argue that the van had the right of way when it rammed a vehicle in front of it, which was precisely what the van driver did. More than likely, the van driver was fixating on the downed motorcycle up ahead and wasn't paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 To me, the evidence is fairly clear cut in your favor. The collision happened when the other vehicle struck your vehicle in the process of passing you in the same lane your vehicle occupied. Unless the court/insurance company thinks he moved into the path of the other vehicle without indicating. Then he's stuffed... Ciao, If the other vehicle had rear-ended the VFR1200, would there be any doubt as to who was at fault? The fact that the collision resulted in a clipped mirror does not change the fact that there was a collision caused by a vehicle coming up from behind and striking the motorcycle. It is next to impossible to argue that the van had the right of way when it rammed a vehicle in front of it, which was precisely what the van driver did. More than likely, the van driver was fixating on the downed motorcycle up ahead and wasn't paying attention. Agreed, but worth the effort? Doubt it. Just replace the mirror and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8Apex Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I have State Farm, called to ask them a question about an incident where someone had backed into me, but they were paying in full out of pocket, but I was told (in a friendly way) that I should not have made them aware of it and my rates may go up. I can only guess it has something to with being statisically more likely to be involved in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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