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Front end conversion - was yours worth it ??


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I got to sit on Mini-Carvers 5th/6th Gen at the last Summer Summit in South Dakota. (Yeah, he offered to let me ride it but he's about a foot taller and the bike is definitely set up for him). Super well thought out and executed. He showed me the cast-in boss on the Fifth Gen engine that he bolted the VTEC solenoid to-like Honda knew someone was going to do this swap. A RWB 6th Gen WITH cam gear whine AND dual Staintunes!?  Outstanding. If I win the lottery...  Oh, his dad rides a 6th Gen WITH a TORO Charger, yes quite the team.

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23 hours ago, mello dude said:

 

Hey MiniCarver --- I think you may have the near ultimate VFR there with the 6th based and 5th engine plus 8th wheels and monoblocks.. 

>>>>Wow, just frick'n WOW! --- If I get your way, I would love to see it in person. 

 

You Carvers blow me away.. :beer:

 

 

 

If you get my way I'll let you ride it lol. I couldn't be happier with how it turned out.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/12/2019 at 6:55 AM, MiniCarver said:

If you get my way I'll let you ride it lol. I couldn't be happier with how it turned out.

 

 

What's the go with retaining the VTEC solenoid? To "fool" the existing ECU into believing it's still "driving" a 6th-Gen engine?

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On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 4:43 PM, EX-XX said:

 

What's the go with retaining the VTEC solenoid? To "fool" the existing ECU into believing it's still "driving" a 6th-Gen engine?

When trying to figure out how to fool the 6th gen ECU and trying to check resistances to see if I could jumper it or eliminate it completely, I actually found that the v-tec solenoid valve plugs in to the wiring harness as a single blade powered wire, and to complete the circuit, the solenoid valve itself is grounded to the top of the engine block, inside the V underneath the thermostat housing. so I removed the solenoid valve from a donor 2002 engine and bolted it to the outside of the frame just above one of the engine mounts and ran the wire through the opening for the coolant line and it works perfectly.

We actually did a track day after I finished the build and I mounted a gopro on the lower right hand fairing and the recorded video picked up the solenoid valve "clicking" attempting to engage v-tec every time I got up to the engagement rpm range. little does my 2002 ECU know, my 5th gen engine has v-tec engaged at all times 😈 lol

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Now that 8th gen parts are becoming more and more available via ebay. I was able to do all 2014 suspension/wheel/rotors with Brembo monoblocks.
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Iiking the 8th gen forks and brakes...can you do a build thread for us? Interested in doing the same for my 6th gen and keen to know if the 6th gen fork uppers and brake master cylinders can be used...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

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8 hours ago, richieg said:

Iiking the 8th gen forks and brakes...can you do a build thread for us? Interested in doing the same for my 6th gen and keen to know if the 6th gen fork uppers and brake master cylinders can be used...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
 

I'm working on a build thread but i'm working with 150 gb of data between timelapse video's and pictures so it's taking me more time than I thought. and theoretically the 6th gen master cylinder will fit on the 8th gen but i'm not sure what the difference in the bore size is between 6th and 8th gen master cylinders. I would just try to find a used 8th gen master cylinder on ebay if you don't want to cough up the extra money for a radial master cylinder. as far as the upper fork tubes, they're both 43mm tubes and the length is the same, when I had my forks rebuild by traxxion they used my 2002 fork tubes because the 8th generation fork tubes were slightly bent. 

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8 hours ago, richieg said:

keen to know if the 6th gen fork uppers and brake master cylinders can be used...

 

Well, the answer to this and many other questions may be found in the service manuals. Conveniently, pdfs are available right here on VFRD - goto Browse--> Downloads to get your copy.

 

Btw, according to Honda, both 6th & 8th Gen use a 14 mm master cylinder at the front, but different sizes on the rear. JZH may be able to verify these figures.

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21 hours ago, Lorne said:

 

Well, the answer to this and many other questions may be found in the service manuals. Conveniently, pdfs are available right here on VFRD - goto Browse--> Downloads to get your copy.

 

Btw, according to Honda, both 6th & 8th Gen use a 14 mm master cylinder at the front, but different sizes on the rear. JZH may be able to verify these figures.

Yes They both use a 14mm master cylinder, but Honda did change the part number. Could be the way the new switch boxes hook up to the master cylinder for horn/brake switch. Or it could just be a different color. As far as the "answer to this can be found in the service manual" I have to disagree. These parts (to my knowledge) have never been swapped between these bikes thus far so you won't just find an answer for these conversions. 

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The General Information sections in the front of the Honda Workshop Manuals are the most reliable specification data I know of--certainly for Honda comparison purposes.  The Workshop Manuals contain very little part number data (only for things like special tools), so you also need to have access to the Parts Manuals or microfiche (or what used to be on microfiche!), but those contain very little specifications data (other than things like o-ring and seal dimensions).

 

I don't think Lorne meant that all such questions could be answered by reference to the Honda manuals.  But some, like M/C and brake piston sizes, can be.

 

As you note, different part numbers could refer to many different things, such as paint colour, mounting tab positioning--or to completely different internal designs or incompatible fitments.  Sometimes you just have to get the parts in-hand and get out the digital calipers.  That's what I had to do to acquire my triple clamp data--thank you eBay!

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On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 7:31 AM, JZH said:

The General Information sections in the front of the Honda Workshop Manuals are the most reliable specification data I know of--certainly for Honda comparison purposes.  The Workshop Manuals contain very little part number data (only for things like special tools), so you also need to have access to the Parts Manuals or microfiche (or what used to be on microfiche!), but those contain very little specifications data (other than things like o-ring and seal dimensions).

 

I don't think Lorne meant that all such questions could be answered by reference to the Honda manuals.  But some, like M/C and brake piston sizes, can be.

 

As you note, different part numbers could refer to many different things, such as paint colour, mounting tab positioning--or to completely different internal designs or incompatible fitments.  Sometimes you just have to get the parts in-hand and get out the digital calipers.  That's what I had to do to acquire my triple clamp data--thank you eBay!

trial and error is exactly what I've been doing lol. I use the service manual for torque settings, but the microfiche will give me the bolt lengths and size, piston sizes, and will also tell me which parts were used on which different models/years. 

 

I literally just bought a new dogbone for my suspension on ebay just for test fitting because it was 14 bucks lol.

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  • 5 months later...
On 10/31/2014 at 12:30 AM, erbilabuc said:

my 95 with an 09cbr600rr front end. its a direct swap, nothing special needed. the whole thing bolts off the 600rr and onto the vfr and even the fork stops are perfect. The only thing I did was cut off the tab for the 600rr steering stabilizer or it would hit my tank.

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I know this thread isn't alive much anymore but the information here is super helpful. As to the quoted post, is there any follow up by anyone who's tried this yet? The OP did it on a 4th gen; are there enough significant differences, between 4th & 5th gen, to rule this out for a 2000? 

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Looks like you'd need to do a de-link to the 2000, and use the CBR wheel as well (whole front end).  Wondering what the Gemoetry looks like compared to 5th Gen Stock?  

https://www.motorera.com/honda/h0800/intercep.htm

  • CHASSIS / SUSPENSION / BRAKES
    • Suspension: Front: 41mm HMAS cartridge fork with stepless spring preload adjustability; 4.7 inches travel
    • Rear: Pro-Arm single-sided swingarm with Pro-Link-mounted, HMAS gas-charged shock with 7-position spring preload and stepless rebound damping adjustability; 4.7 inches travel
    • Brakes: Front: Dual 296mm disc with LBS three-piston calipers
    • Rear: 256mm disc with LBS three-piston caliper
    • Tires: Front: 120/70ZR-17 radial
    • Rear: 180/55ZR-I7 radial
  • DIMENSION
    • Wheelbase: 56.7 inches
    • Rake: (Caster Angle) 25.3'
    • Trail: 95.0 mm (3.74 inches)
    • Rake: (Caster Angle) 25.3'
    • Trail: 95.0 mm (3.74 inches)
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The main difference is that the 600RR forks are a lot shorter than the RC46 forks.  The fork stops might not be quite right, but they can be modified.  As far a geometry goes, if the shorter forks make the bike turn too quick, your only easy option would be to lower the rear to match...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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  • 3 weeks later...
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On 7/16/2019 at 10:11 PM, JZH said:

The main difference is that the 600RR forks are a lot shorter than the RC46 forks.  The fork stops might not be quite right, but they can be modified.  As far a geometry goes, if the shorter forks make the bike turn too quick, your only easy option would be to lower the rear to match...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

If doing CBR600F4 forks on VFR800, then the best option for 5th gen is to use Vtec, yokes & stanchions with CBR lowers. Most cartridges have an over stroke, so just need to confirm the extra length of the 6th gen stanchion is within the over stroke. range of the CBR cartridge !  If not you may be able to mix & match parts to make a working cartridge.

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Having owner a number of bikes during my life and still having a 98 gen 5 since 1999, I love to check back on the discussion site to see what’s going on with you all. The amount of time, money and effort spent on making one’s VFR as fast as Marquez’s Honda is mind boggling. 

I’ve  always enjoyed my VFR and other a few small changes have pretty much left it alone. First thing I did was to replace the stock shock with a Fox twin clicker and then later with a Penske; didn’t feel much difference! Read about lots of folks delinking the brakes but decided against it; I like being able to use the rear brake on steep downhills in the rain! Also better for playing with the ADV crowd wrestling their 550lbs GS elephants down rocky Jeep trails! As for the forks... I’ve used the RaceTech dampers in both a KLR250 and my VTR1000. What a pain it is to take the forks apart to change the damping! Anybody try DMr for some help? 

Anyway, keep up the good work guys and keep sending in those photos! 

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On 8/1/2019 at 8:14 AM, dozyproductions said:

Want to get the f4i forks and etc. Do you guys have any experience with these risers and if there would be a problem? 

 

handles.jpg

 

ABM is a sold "alt-Schule" German brand, so everything they sell will have had TUV paperwork and be perfectly suitable.  If you get something like that, make sure it inlcudes the correct handlebar--the angle of the bend is critical to make sure the switchgear and lever clear the windcreen support part of the upper fairing.

 

The CBR600F4i forks are much longer than the CBR600RR forks you were talking about before, almost VFR length, so they should work well.  The forks are 43mm diameter, so the RC46 clamps won't work.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

 

 

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  • 8 months later...
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Im in the process of doing an 05 R1 front end swap on my 02 VFR. I started off planning to go the SP2 route, just sourcing the factory parts to make it work. Ended up in a conversation with SebSpeed one day over availability of parts and the ins and outs of what I'd need to complete the setup and he threw the R1 idea at me. He had just got a deposit for a set of custom triples to make the R1 front end work without spacing the wheel or rotors. After about 30 seconds of googling R1 parts and realizing the availability and prices were hands down way better I quickly changed directions and shot him a deposit for the triples. Because of the length difference in fork tubes and the need for clip ons to be above the tree, Sebastian decided to replicate the 954/929 upper tree with a 19mm drop down on the outsides of the tree. This will allow me to run VFR1200 clip ons above the tree and not only be extremely close to factory ride height, but give me hand placement near factory specs as well.  I have accumulated nearly all the big ticket items and Sebastian is almost done with the trees so it wont be long before the VFR goes under the knife! I went ahead and decided to send the forks to Jamie and have him re-spring the front end as I'm a heavy rider in full gear. This will match nicely with my rebuilt/revalved/resprung F4i rear shock. 

 

My bike has 63k on the clock and stock suspension so to say I'm excited to see the outcome of this new setup is an understatement. I ride the bike hard on the street and track so I can't wait for it to actually not fight me during corners!

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4 hours ago, RyleeV4 said:

 

 

4 hours ago, RyleeV4 said:

Im in the process of doing an 05 R1 front end swap on my 02 VFR. I started off planning to go the SP2 route, just sourcing the factory parts to make it work. Ended up in a conversation with SebSpeed one day over availability of parts and the ins and outs of what I'd need to complete the setup and he threw the R1 idea at me. He had just got a deposit for a set of custom triples to make the R1 front end work without spacing the wheel or rotors. After about 30 seconds of googling R1 parts and realizing the availability and prices were hands down way better I quickly changed directions and shot him a deposit for the triples. Because of the length difference in fork tubes and the need for clip ons to be above the tree, Sebastian decided to replicate the 954/929 upper tree with a 19mm drop down on the outsides of the tree. This will allow me to run VFR1200 clip ons above the tree and not only be extremely close to factory ride height, but give me hand placement near factory specs as well.  I have accumulated nearly all the big ticket items and Sebastian is almost done with the trees so it wont be long before the VFR goes under the knife! I went ahead and decided to send the forks to Jamie and have him re-spring the front end as I'm a heavy rider in full gear. This will match nicely with my rebuilt/revalved/resprung F4i rear shock. 

 

My bike has 63k on the clock and stock suspension so to say I'm excited to see the outcome of this new setup is an understatement. I ride the bike hard on the street and track so I can't wait for it to actually not fight me during corners!

Sounds great, don't forget to post up photos of the build up and assembly...

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Stock RC45 front end is high quality but my goal was to drop the weight and pick up the pace...

You're looking at over 8k in parts and over 8K in manual machining... but hey it was a labor of love...

 

1 Home made magnesium Triple Clamps with 35mm offset... $1,200
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2 Ohlins FG310 Superbike Forks... $1,500
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3 Ferodo Ceramic Matrix Composite Front Disc... $2,300
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4 Brembo billet radial Front Calipers... $1,500
3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg

 

5 Home made Magnesium radial caliper mounts... $1,000
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6 Marchesini Magnesium 3.5x17 Front Rim that was owned by Wayne Rainey
when he sponsored Jimmy Felice YZ250R... $500
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9 Brembo radial Front Brake master cylinder $275
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10 Brembo billet radial clutch master cylinder $375
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7 Homemade 7075 T6 Bar Risers... $450

 

RC45BarRisersCables.JPG

 

8 home made 7075 T6 aluminum Front Axle... $350

FortalAxleComparo.JPG

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5 hours ago, mello dude said:

 

Sounds great, don't forget to post up photos of the build up and assembly...

I have a build thread going in the 6th gen forum. Have been trying to add photos as stuff shows up

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just did the f4i swap and revalve on my 5th gen. Got a nice rear shock to compliment it. Worth it. Have more confidence in turns and on uneven ground. Feels like a new bike. Also, the adjustability is a fantastic tool and the cbr front fairing looks great on a VFR. With proper parts, it's a drop in swap. The only problem I had was sketchy sellers and buying "straight" forks. 

While you're there, steel brake lines should be a must. You can knock off a lot of check marks in one job. 

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VTR 100O FORKS lowers, Daughtry DMS custom built adjustable inserts, F4I calipers and master. Brembo rear caliper and master. someone on the forum is making a bracket for the Brembo

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