The Official Oil Thread

[Bent]

On 3/30/2020 at 5:56 AM, PaulT68 said:

Hello fellow VFR fans,just for reference,when I bought my 95 FS the previous owner couldn't remember or be specific about which Oil he had previously  used,which gave me an open book really on choices for future changes ( I would have continued to use the same product if I had known what it was).When the inevitable Oil Cooler Feed Pipes ( one of them) started to crack resulting in a leak which luckily was picked up during its MOT,i bought a second hand pair and did an Oil change when I swapped them over.I previously had a Suzuki SV650 and had bought some Amsoil 20w50 fully syth which I had read made for smoother Gear Changes,but had sold the bike before I got to use it.So logically I used this Oil for the VFR,i replaced the Filter (oem I think) with a K&N one,also bought a Magnetic Sump Plug and hey - presto the change was done.The original Sump Plug was tidy,no signs of stripped threads etc and looked like it had seen a lot of Spanner/Socket use ( good sign).Years later everything is still good,doesnt burn any from what I can tell,no Mayonaise traces despite winter lay-ups in the Cold and usually Wet UK climate,colour doesn't look overly black even now.With whats happening at the moment and less riding time available  im determined to change it this season,i will use the same Oil  again.

If you haven't read about the many near death experiences caused directly from K&N filters, you need to look it up.  Not kidding on that.  

 

Hell with the oil issue.  I have yet to hear of an oil related engine failure in over 20 years of reading VFR forums.  Just use oil in them and change it when you feel like it.  DO NOT use K&N filters.  Look it up.  

[Dutchy]

3 hours ago, Bent said:

I have yet to hear of an oil related engine failure in over 20 years of reading VFR forums.  

 

There was a Dutch owner a few years ago who bought a second hand, high mileage Vtec.   Took it into Germany (no speedlimit on motorways) and after a few long high speed runs the engine went BOOOMMM.....

When asked, the PO conceded hehad never changed oil, merely topped it up when required.    Not an oil related falure therefor but a moron related one....

 

 

 

 

[PaulT68]

4 hours ago, Bent said:

If you haven't read about the many near death experiences caused directly from K&N filters, you need to look it up.  Not kidding on that.  

 

Hell with the oil issue.  I have yet to hear of an oil related engine failure in over 20 years of reading VFR forums.  Just use oil in them and change it when you feel like it.  DO NOT use K&N filters.  Look it up.  

Hiya,thanks I am aware that there are issues with K&N Oil Filters,ive seen a few Videos etc,but it was  installed prior to my gaining the knowledge,all I can do before each ride is visually inspect it for any problems.I have a Hi-Flo Filter for the next change but might substitute it  for an OEM,with the lockdown a change will be happening soon.

[BusyLittleShop]

There was a K&N safety recall back in 2016 for certain K&N oil
filters, Part Nos. KN-204 (black) and KN-204C (chrome), manufactured
between March 1, 2016 and September 30, 2016 can leak oil at the area
where a nut (intended for use to remove the oil filter during routine
oil changes) is welded to the end of the filter. If there is such a
leak, oil could come into contact with the rear tire or rear brake of
the motorcycle on which the filter is installed. If this were to
occur, it could lead to a loss of control or a crash. Therefore, K&N
offered to replace the affected oil filters at no charge...

 

I continue to employ a K&N 303 filter on Mr.RC45 and I have used OEM and High Flow with equal satisfaction...

 

 

Oil Filter Comparison...

 

[youtube]

 

 

[boOZZIE]

^ I had one of those.

Luckily enough I got my bike serviced just as it began to leak. And thanks to this site and its posting of a recall from K & N I got a free filter as the mechanic and Australian K & N rep. knew nothing of the recall.

 

[Grum]

Hiflo HF204's, my oil filter of choice since 2005, 6 and 8gen compatible, definetly no removal nut type.

[Philois1984]

Out of interest what if anything is the problem with oem oil filters ?

[Grum]

2 hours ago, Philois1984 said:

Out of interest what if anything is the problem with oem oil filters ?

Absolutely nothing at all. Just means you've got to visit a Honda dealership, or have them ordered. I find most motorcycle shops and motorcycle accessory shops all carry HiFlo, even my local general motorcycle service shop (Slipstream motorcycles) has them. During the warranty periods with my bikes I've used the OEM's after that I just find it easier to grab the HiFlo. Had no issue with either.

Cheers.

[squirrelman]

i seriously doubt a hiflo meets honda standards.  if you get what u pay for, you're getting less quality with hiflo, made in the 3rd world to their standards.

[Philois1984]

Just to be clear I don’t have any issue with non oem oil filters I was simply asking if there was any reason people didn’t use oem ie Honda filters. Grum answered my question clearly, simply a matter of convenience. 
 

[Grum]

5 hours ago, squirrelbrains said:

i seriously doubt a hiflo meets honda standards.  if you get what u pay for, you're getting less quality with hiflo. 

Reckon that's  a purely subjective comment and you seem to be only basing it on what you pay for it! You may be right, but without direct test results between the two, you're only guessing there might be a quality difference.

There is not much of a price difference in Australia between the OEM and a HiFlo anyway, it's just so much easier for me in procuring the HiFlo.

HiFlo are a TUV spec filter, being type tested and production monitored to meet or exceed all OE specs. Myself and many others have been using HiFlo for years without any issues. As always YMMV.

Cheers.

[BusyLittleShop]

On 3/31/2020 at 8:05 PM, Philois1984 said:

Out of interest what if anything is the problem with oem oil filters ?

No problems...

Honda OEM filter are manufactured by Filtech, an American subsidiary of the Toyo Roki Manufacturing Company. Filtech has been manufacturing filters for HMC since '87 take a look inside and note the quality is about the

same as K&N or HiFlo...

 

[raYzerman]

I have cut many a filter apart to see quality of design/construction... also lots of internet cutaways.  My unscientific small list I would avoid... K&N for reasons stated, Fram ExtraGard (OK but UltraGard or their other higher lines are good), Supertech (Walmart brand, used to be excellent, made by Champion, but latest are cheap crap), Purolator Pure One.  The Pure One is too good, filter media is 20 microns which reduces flow by ~2+ gpm.  Purolator also does not recommend them for bikes... you want flow in a high performance engine.  Mostly when cold, if flow is restricted, the relief valve can go into bypass, meaning partial unfiltered.  Most filters are 30-ish microns, Purolator Classic is too.  Bosch owns Purolator, so essentially the same, made in the same factory.  There are stainless washable re-usables that claim highest flow, but they filter at 36 microns.  Good for a race engine with clean oil IMHO, but no need for us street guys, your choice, you can work out the economics and inconvenience of washing.

Cost of OEM's is way high here, US guys seem to be able to buy multiples for decent money, comparable to other brands.  Mobil1 an excellent filter.

Your oil is changed frequently enough it really doesn't get that dirty.  Most bike manufacturers say new filter every other oil change.  Stress less, ride more, the aftermarket filters are mostly fine except for my list above.  All my opinion of course, you have to do what lets you sleep at night, but you should.

Just a wee story about an OEM Yamaha filter... many defend the OEM, no problem with me, except that one.  It was a blob of compressed I dunno what, did the job, but once you saw that, you'd more than likely be turned off.  The newer ones are just fine (all made by Denso), have traditional paper/synthetic media.  Doesn't matter who makes the OEMs, it matters what specification they were given.

[Bent]

I use OEM oil filters, Honda uses them, they are easy to find, including, non Honda service and repair shops and I know what I am getting.  Once again, the only serious issue I've ever heard of was from many K&N oil filters that have very suddenly "dumped" oil all over the road that the rear tire rolls right over with potential catastrophic results for the rider.  If not catastrophic results, then wherever it happens, there you are.  The sudden dumping is due to the faulty welded nut on the end of the filter.  VFRWORLD has good pictures of it with results on the road.  Seeing is believing.      

[Hingley]

Guys

I know this thread on oil and oil quality has been beat to death but I am still in the dark in some ways

In the service manuals I have for the 1999 VFR800 they spec a 10w40 oil with an API service classification of SF or SG

Since I  am gray haired I have to assume that at the printing of the manuals this API rating was the best of the day and now 

20 years later oils have changed ( a great deal ).

So today I started looking for a good 10w40 synthetic oil like Mobile 1 with a API of ??, well first I could not find any Mobile 1 10w40 as it was all 0w40 with an API of SN

So save an old guy from going crazy looking at oil cans for the next two months and and second guessing himself and tell me that the new API rating are fine in the 99 VFR and what oil is the best bet ?, still 10w40 ?, synthetic I am sure

Are there still oils out there that are hard on clutches, etc ?, ones to walk by ?

I should mention that I will now and always will be using Honda oil filters, I started buying original oil filters for my 1989 Toyota 4x4 pickup when I buy it in December 1988 and it still runs like a top today so the hell with the extra cost if the VFR will last that long

[ShipFixer]

I think Wal-Mart is one of the reliable sources for 10W-40, but I don’t think it’s in Canada?  

 

Your bearings, rings, and other lubricated surfaces are designed around a specific viscosity.  But 10W-30 will work, as will 15W-40 if you can find it.  10W-30 is called out as an alternative in my manual with its own temperature range.

 

The downward push on viscosities and why you can’t find it is a corporate average fuel economy thing. It’s kind of like shaved tires.  It’s a cost savings and/or cost avoidance for the vehicle manufacturer, and they transfer far future risk to you that is unlikely to materialize while yo own the car so no one cares.  It’s understood in engineering land that this is happening but unfortunately vehicle consumers don’t broadly know.

[squirrelman]

the #1 thing to avoid in oils is "energy saving".

[bmart]

Right. Regardless of the damage done elsewhere!

[Hingley]

Man, sometimes to sucks to live in Canada

I just came back from two of the bigger Auto stores and the selection of 10w40 is piss poor

There was only Castrol GTX dino oil in 10w40

And Castrol Edge Europe spec syn. oil 5w40 and 5w50 on the shelves

Mobile 1 syn. only had 0w40 is hard for me to put in a motorcycle engine, can't get my head around the 0w part , it is an old man thing.

Could not find any oil that says it was made for motorcycles, I expected that around here, especially this time of year.

Based on what I am seeing I may have to resort to Mobile 1 10w30 syn. , and considering we have very few days of +90 I guess it would work but I hate to

 

I think you guys hit the nail on the head when you said the big companies are all making oils based on engine fuel economy and the new motors with very tight specs

As a last thought have many used this ( Castrol Edge Europe spec syn. oil 5w40 or 5w50 ) in their bikes, I assume it does not have moly additions that would cause issues with the clutch etc.

Your thoughts or guidance will be greatly appreciated.

[Wald]

A silly question.  Do they sell Bel Ray oil in Canada?

[Bronco]

Hingley;

 

4-589 NS Trunk #2
Elmsdale, NS B2S 1A4
(902) 883-7859

 

That is the Auto Value in Elmsdale; call them and get them to bring in 4 litres of Lucas 10-50 Motorcycle oil; they probably already have it on the shelf, along with the Semi-Synthetic and Full Synthetic Lucas Motorcyle oils.  They don't charge any extra to do that and it is only 30 Km from your location in your post.

 

Problem solved.

[ShipFixer]

18 hours ago, Bronco said:

Hingley;

 

4-589 NS Trunk #2
Elmsdale, NS B2S 1A4
(902) 883-7859

 

That is the Auto Value in Elmsdale; call them and get them to bring in 4 litres of Lucas 10-50 Motorcycle oil; they probably already have it on the shelf, along with the Semi-Synthetic and Full Synthetic Lucas Motorcyle oils.  They don't charge any extra to do that and it is only 30 Km from your location in your post.

 

Problem solved.

Yeah but there's no People of Walmart in this adventure.  Should get a discount!

[Hingley]

Looks like the best bet of a good supply of 10w40 Syn. oil , made for wet clutches around here is Lucas

Wally World has nothing

I can get Liqui Moly 4T Syn. or Honda brand 10w40 at the Honda dealer but that is an hour away and with gas at $7.25 a gallon it is a no brainer 

Man things sure have changed, fifteen or twenty years ago I never worried about oil additives being hard on engines and clutches, good syn. was just that and could be used in anything, even the race bike loved it, or at least I thought so.

Those who have used Lucas oils, Do you like them?

Thanks for the help guys

[bmart]

Mobil 1 4T has served me well for many years, available nearly anywhere. I've also heard some nice things about Valvoline's motorcycle oil. Both say good for wet clutches right on the labels. 

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Racing-4T-Full-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Oil-10W-40-1-qt/16767829?athbdg=L1100

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvoline-4-Stroke-Motorcycle-10W-40-Conventional-Motor-Oil-1-QT/16879749

[Hingley]

Looks like they make it easy for you guys in the States

Up here in cold Canada it looks like we don't have enough bikes on the road for Wally World to stock many choices in motorcycle oils, at least where I am at