Best Way For Better Front Brakes?

[KanadianKen]

And don't say "buy a new bike"!

Just tossing around the notion of improving the brakes on the VFR. I'll change out the current pads to fresh EBC HH but long term - is there a common VFR (6th Gen) swap / suggestion to consider?

Ideas and examples welcome. I have no plans to sell this bike so "dreaming" about mods is the protocol.

Thanks.

[rangemaster]

Kanadian Ken,

I think you are taking the right first step with the EBC HH pads. When you put them on you might consider de-glazing your rotors before you take it out on the road and break-in the pads. I've had good results using what's basically a scuffy pad in an electric drill to remove the glaze. Polish everything up and lube it with Syl-Glyde. From there maybe some Galfer rotors and stainless steel front lines would probably take you as far as you can go without a fork swap. Oh, and some fresh fluid never hurts either.

rm

[Rice]

EBC pads do improve brakes quite a bit.

One word of caution though. Practice emergency stopping with them all over again.

Especially if you don't have ABS.

Ask me how I know.

[Duc2V4]

I did the SS brake lines and EBC HH pads and it really made a difference for me.

[Aracheon]

EBC pads do improve brakes quite a bit.

One word of caution though. Practice emergency stopping with them all over again.

Especially if you don't have ABS.

Ask me how I know.

The initial bite of those pads surprised the hell out of me when I put them on about a month ago.

[Havagan]

EBC HH pads plus Galfer wave rotors improved the feel of my brakes. I would love to do steel lines, but that will wait a bit.

[ciprinakos]

Beside the all above you can do also Shindy 5/8" Clutch & Brake Master Cylinders Kits ( I took them from here http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/68/41039/ITEM/Shindy-Products-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kits.aspx?SiteID=SLI). Bigger cylinder's diameter, the more fluid is pressed into the calipers with the same amount of lever movement compared to stock - at least that's my opinion.

[kox]

Beside the all above you can do also Shindy 5/8" Clutch & Brake Master Cylinders Kits ( I took them from here http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/68/41039/ITEM/Shindy-Products-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kits.aspx?SiteID=SLI). Bigger cylinder's diameter, the more fluid is pressed into the calipers with the same amount of lever movement compared to stock - at least that's my opinion.

Bigger master diameter actually makes the brake feel harder and the lever travel less, but you have to squeeze the lever harder to get the same braking force.

Actually the way to go would be to get a smaller diameter brakemaster cylinder/piston, but then the bars would get in the way.

[ciprinakos]

Honestly, I was using some short levers with the stock brake & clutch so after changing them I felt the brake more responsive with the same squeezing force on this kit which is having a bit longer levers. It is also true that, due to superbike handlebars mounted on my bike, I was able to adjust them in the right position for griping/squeezing.

[KanadianKen]

I've been using the HHS pads for years. Stainless lines sounds like a decent idea. Galfer wave rotors are also good idea. Fresh fluid always make an improvement.

I believe a smaller master cylinder amps up the pressure- but I'm not certain.

I will have to start checking around for prices on all the parts. Bought the pads awhile back but lots of material was still on old ones (before Tmac). Will check that out soon.

Thanks for ideas!

[timmythecop]

Buy a different bike.

[KanadianKen]

Buy a different bike.

I bet an entire 51 front end would fit my bike. Project for next TMAC.........

[FJ12Ryder]

I'm just wondering what you are wanting in the way of "better brakes"? Harder initial bite, more fade resistance, better "feel", less abruptness? Everybody has a different definition of "better".

[MBrane]

Yeah considering the VFR uses the same brakes as a Goldwing it seems strange to me when people complain about them. They've always been more than adequate for me, but then I replaced the old stock lines, rebuilt the calipers, installed the HH pads, and change my fluid at least once a year.

[zRoYz]

The 6th gen VFR brakes are outstanding honestly, there equal to the RC51 brakes in my opinion on the VFR as have used both on the 6th gen (the RC51 larger rotors are the only real improvement, not the callipers). The standard oem rotors are also better than the galfers, the reason people tend to feel the galfers are better is because there replacing worn used oem rotors so they should feel better. The rotors after awhile become infused with pad material so if you have good life left in your oem rotors having a light surface grind over them brings the extra performance back. Pads are the real key & the EBC HH is a great pad but before you use them give them a light sand on a flat surface & bed them into your rotors properly. New pads never brake to a stop if you can help it during first use, brake hard to nearly stopping then accelerate & do it again 10+ times.

Braided lines do work well mainly because the rubber lines do expand especially with heat, braided lines don't expand any amount that you notice. You can also upgrade just the front master cylinder because it is a separate circuit only connected (6th gen) to LHS caliper 3 pistons & RHS caliper 2 pistons doesn't supply fluid to link system at all. You can fit a more efficient radial master cylinder like a Brembo but the down side is won't match the clutch unless you change that too. You don't want to go to large piston size because your feel will become wooden & if to large you won't stop at all because you won't be able to apply enough force with the lever as it all has to do with fluid movement & the capacity of fluid in your system, which is why brake systems come with different sized master cylinders.

If I didn't have CBR1000RR front end on my 6th gen I would be more than happy with oem rotors, braided lines, EBC HH pads & quality brake fluid. I do find if my brakes feel like there losing performance a sanding of the pads & brake fluid change always does the trick. Also if your bike has some miles on it the calliper seals can be effecting performance because as they harden up they tend to return the piston either to far back from rotor or to much pressure on rotor when released causing heat & glazing. Doing a calliper overhaul also works wonders.

[KanadianKen]

Some great input - thanks all!

I rode an R6 back in March on a track, and its stopping ability was incredible. Obviously the bike is different and the setting much different than the street.

On the weekend I went for a ride with my son and I think that with him on the back (he weighs in at a mighty 100lbs with gear) the lack of "R6" braking was even MORE evident than usual when its just my fat ass riding.

Thus my questioning whether some simple mods could be effected to improve the VFR braking system.

I'm already looking into stainless braided lines - and as my rotors are still straight - I think I'll keep them (instead of changing to galfers) but I will have a closer look to see if they are glazed and need a "roughing" up of sorts.

I have new HH pads ready to be installed - so thats a no brainer when I remove the rotors.

I'll need to either find someone local to me in the Toronto area that can rebuild calipers - I've replaced calipers on cars - but never rebuilt or "gone through them" - I wouldn't know where to start? Perhaps I'll search our How To section and see whats involved.

[Baileyrock]

Your VFR w/kid is over 200+ lbs heavier than an R6, that's a Lot of extra weight to slow down.

Glad to hear you riding fast enough to start using brakes now!

BTW I remember a test of brake a few years ago and the 6th gen VFR was tested against a dozen other sport bikes and it finished in the top 3 or 5.

[YoshiHNS]

I'm going to agree with BR and say that the brakes are good and can't really get much better. It's the weight of the bike.

[hotshoerob]

I glass bead blasted a couple rotors for a racer friend of mine to take the glaze off.

The difference was huge.

He said the first time he went in to a corner, he wasn't ready for the difference it made and the back wheel came way up.

The bead blasting leaves a nice uniform finish on the whole rotor so you know you'll get nice even braking as well.

Works great for steel clutch plates as well.

[Switchblade]

I glass bead blasted a couple rotors for a racer friend of mine to take the glaze off.

The difference was huge.

He said the first time he went in to a corner, he wasn't ready for the difference it made and the back wheel came way up.

The bead blasting leaves a nice uniform finish on the whole rotor so you know you'll get nice even braking as well.

Works great for steel clutch plates as well.

I got a friend that has one of those bead blasters, gonna try it.

THANKS for the tip.

[Mohawk]

The simplest mod is to swap a set of CBR600F4/F4i lowers on to your VFR chrome upper legs (43mm) & use a complete CBR600 brake set, calipers, master cylinder & rear master cylinder. Remove & middle piston from the rear caliper it's not needed, thus reducing rear brake to one line for the outer 2 pistons.

If you are handy with tools you could use the CBR's fully adjustable dampers to, use thicker oild than standard with the CBR & use the VFR springs &/or replacement springs.

I've done the equivilent swap on a 5th Gen using VTR1000 Firestorm/Superhawk lowers (41mm) & CBR929/600 brake parts, the difference is amazing, it now brakes like a CBR600 :)

[FJ12Ryder]

Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see a real problem with the VFR brakes. I can easily lock the front wheel with 2 fingers, and modulation is good, for me anyway, severe slowing is easy using 1 finger. Unless you put more rubber on the road I don't see how you could stop the bike any quicker. You might get a better "feel" but that is about the only thing that will really change, or maybe fade is a problem but I've never noticed that in everyday riding. YB(rakes)MV.

[AndyB]

I'll need to either find someone local to me in the Toronto area that can rebuild calipers - I've replaced calipers on cars - but never rebuilt or "gone through them" - I wouldn't know where to start? Perhaps I'll search our How To section and see whats involved.

I don't know your mechanical ability, but rebuilding calipers is not that difficult. It involves replacing seals and cleaning the pistons and bores. There are guides on youtube. On my wing, I used aluminum foil to polish the pistons and down into the bores after I got the crud out. It was not difficult, just time consuming.

[gmtech94]

Donald at Platinum Motorsprts has the braided line kits for around $200 and will install them at his shop for you ,

.I can help with caliper rebuild if you can hold the light .Let me know if you want to tackle this little job sometime .

[YoshiHNS]

I'll need to either find someone local to me in the Toronto area that can rebuild calipers - I've replaced calipers on cars - but never rebuilt or "gone through them" - I wouldn't know where to start? Perhaps I'll search our How To section and see whats involved.

I don't know your mechanical ability, but rebuilding calipers is not that difficult. It involves replacing seals and cleaning the pistons and bores. There are guides on youtube. On my wing, I used aluminum foil to polish the pistons and down into the bores after I got the crud out. It was not difficult, just time consuming.

Aluminum foil? Why did you use that as opposed to a scotch brite pad?

[MajorGrits]

Ken,

I know it's not a VFR but I felt a huge difference when I swapped out the rubber lines for stainless steel lines on my 6R. I left everything else stock and it took far less lever pressure and I had much better feel. The rubber lines still expand radially a little.. this takes away some "feeling" from the brakes as the rubber essentially damps out feedback and absorbs some of the force that's supposed to go to the calipers.