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Jmmymc750

Say it isn't so!

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2 hours ago, 4corsa said:

My mistake, I should have been more specific - the VFR800 has essentially been re-skinned for the past 20 years!

4corsa, I agree. The 8th gen is a re-packaged 6th. Looks great, but certainly not a new bike.

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3 hours ago, 4corsa said:

Agreed, but I still want that V4 engine in my sport touring bike. If you could put the VFR V4 in the Ducati SS that would be Nirvana!

I’d rather spend my money on Honda reliability and refinement. 


Honda VFR1000F, 140hp/80ftlb, <500# wet weight, adjustable USD fork with radial brakes, TFT screen, electronics with at least 3 ride modes (rain, tour, sport, track - including ABS/TC OFF). Split pillion with storage and USB port, heated grips, cruise control, up/down quick shifter. $15k. Sounds fair. 

 

NSX-like driveability, refinement and performance. 
 

PS - at least one NACA duct somewhere on the fairing for heritage sake. 

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I still don't understand the logic for why the market is shrinking, but do know it's a buyers market and I'm happy to take advantage of it. I love riding, have been for close to 35 years on the street, I'm looking forward to many more years riding especially when someday I can hopefully retire and enjoy it even more.

 

My 2014 VFR800 Deluxe I got for $6500 with only 1k miles on it, that's about half of what the original owner paid for it new in the US.

Our 2018 Wing Tour we got new for $20k, originally stickered for $26k in the US.

My 2018 CBR1000RR SP I just picked up new for $16k, originally stickered for $20k in the US.

 

Honda's prices are just unrealistic in the US it seems, but if you wait and buy the new leftover models that didn't sell the year or two prior there are smoking deals to be had on some really excellent bikes IMO!  :fing02:

 

thumbnail_IMG_9165.jpg

 

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Wolverines!

:D

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Honda tried the v4 thing big time in the 80’s but early failures with the cams on the vf750f combined with the relentless development of the I-4 platform by Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki caused the v4 to not be the next BIG thing.    
 

I think about moving my ‘07 vfr800 along often and picking up a leftover Suzuki gsxs1000f  which is much more powerful and lighter than the vfr.    It really is amazing how small inline liter bikes are now, the Suzuki has abs, traction control as well, better suspension etc.    While more of a comfortable sport bike as opposed a sport tourer the Suzuki is an attractive package to me.  

 

But....as antiquated as the vfr is I enjoy the bike and after 10 years of ownership have definitely become attached to it, warts and all so it’s safe for now......
 

 

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It just needs updated and refined in line with the competition as well as for Honda to listen to the perspective buyers. 

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Old, Antiquated, Repackaged, Reskinned? (sounds like me)  I don’t really care I still have a smile on my face every time I go for a ride. What generation of VFR you ride, what colour it is, or what brand of motorcycle you ride doesn’t matter as long as you enjoy riding. Hopefully Honda will surprise us all with another V4 when we least expect it.

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12 hours ago, 8200rpm said:

I’d rather spend my money on Honda reliability and refinement. 


Honda VFR1000F, 140hp/80ftlb, <500# wet weight, adjustable USD fork with radial brakes, TFT screen, electronics with at least 3 ride modes (rain, tour, sport, track - including ABS/TC OFF). Split pillion with storage and USB port, heated grips, cruise control, up/down quick shifter. $15k. Sounds fair. 

 

NSX-like driveability, refinement and performance. 
 

PS - at least one NACA duct somewhere on the fairing for heritage sake. 

By the end of the year you'll be able to buy that bike with a V4, made by Ducati. The new Multistrada will meet all those criteria with adaptive cruise control and 160hp, for $20K+ though.

 

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Say it isn't so!!!!!

 

 

 

 

They stopped making these as well eventually.....

 

 

 

IMG-20200216-WA0060.thumb.jpeg.e5671e96bfb12722bf400378c5b3578a.jpeg

(it says MV on the package but to all intents and purposes, the engine is a Gilera design......)

 

 

:goofy:

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By the end of the year you'll be able to buy that bike with a V4, made by Ducati. The new Multistrada will meet all those criteria with adaptive cruise control and 160hp, for $20K+ though.
 
I want a full fairing though - Never understood the lack of wind protection on the Multi.

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1 hour ago, 4corsa said:
5 hours ago, vfrcapn said:
By the end of the year you'll be able to buy that bike with a V4, made by Ducati. The new Multistrada will meet all those criteria with adaptive cruise control and 160hp, for $20K+ though.
 

I want a full fairing though - Never understood the lack of wind protection on the Multi.

Form over function...... :tongue:

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On 2/17/2020 at 4:32 AM, Jmmymc750 said:

All of this silliness and "Red Dawn" references (the *really* good one from 84, when Ronald Reagan was president, and you could buy an interceptor, or a sabre, or a magna) aside, I am actually pained by this. Truly. My baby sleeps at Seb's right now...but alas there may be no more...

I don't think you and I have the same memory of the 80s... 🤣

On 2/18/2020 at 8:09 PM, VifferJ said:

I still don't understand the logic for why the market is shrinking, but do know it's a buyers market and I'm happy to take advantage of it. I love riding, have been for close to 35 years on the street, I'm looking forward to many more years riding especially when someday I can hopefully retire and enjoy it even more.

1) The aging boomer generation are getting off their bikes and onto mobility scooters. Not all, certainly, but it's inevitable. This wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for point number 2:

2) The younger people who would be filtering in to fill the gaps would rather play a motorcycle video game than ride one. I'm not saying that to be disparaging, I think it's an accurate gauge of their interests. I cruised by the One Show in Portland a couple of weeks ago - now granted, this is a specific type of event that lends itself to this sort of thing, but a large segment of the people there didn't really seem to be interested in motorcycles so much as they were cosplaying as bikers. 

3) Partially due to #1, partially due to quality of bikes made 20 years ago, there are a crap-load of excellent, used motorcycles available cheap! There was a time when a 100,000 mile motorcycle would be a smoldering wreck. Not so anymore. 

On 2/18/2020 at 7:08 PM, 8200rpm said:

Honda VFR1000F, 140hp/80ftlb, <500# wet weight, adjustable USD fork with radial brakes, TFT screen, electronics with at least 3 ride modes (rain, tour, sport, track - including ABS/TC OFF). Split pillion with storage and USB port, heated grips, cruise control, up/down quick shifter. $15k. Sounds fair. 

That rumor that was floating around about a street friendly one liter v4 in 2020 was pretty tantalizing, but I think it was just wishful thinking. Hell, I'd be willing to go I4 if Honda would just do a crossplane engine!

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I’m wistful over the departure of the VFR from the USA market, but as long as they keep building them in Kumamoto, there’s still hope.  Unfortunately the Japanese domestic bike market has virtually collapsed.  It’s perhaps 10 percent of what it was 20 years ago.

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6 hours ago, Shinigami said:

I’m wistful over the departure of the VFR from the USA market, but as long as they keep building them in Kumamoto, there’s still hope.  Unfortunately the Japanese domestic bike market has virtually collapsed.  It’s perhaps 10 percent of what it was 20 years ago.

What’s the solution to this? The big manufacturers are seeming to shift focus to producing smaller displacement bikes for the emerging south Asian markets (Thailand, India, etc).

 

I’ve owned four bikes over the course of two decades and always purchased second hand. Maybe it’s time for my first brand new bike to give back to the industry?? Too bad there really isn’t a new model that checks all the boxes. 

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On 2/17/2020 at 1:40 PM, Tiutis said:

Adventure style bikes are selling well or better than sport touring bikes in US. So I’m a little surprised that Honda did not bring the cross runner into US. Their 2 flagship bikes (Goldwing & AT) is where their focus seems to be. In other parts of the world, smaller bikes are probably selling like hot cakes. Leaving our small minority of V4 lovers in “not so important category”.

I would look closely at a Crossrunner if it were here in the US.  I don't find them to be a particularly attractive bike but I love the V4 in my Interceptor and would like to have the same motor in a standard or even and adventurish style like the Crossrunner.

 

I actually bought my 07 Interceptor about two years ago on a whim having always wanted the RWB bike.  The thought was that I would rotate out to a different used bike every other year or so to whatever struck my interest at the time.  That was the plan but then I fell in love with the VFR, even though it's a 13 year old bike it's so well built that it holds up compared to newer bikes, maybe not in power and weight but in design and refinement.  And that motor, the sound, it's just the best.  As I look to the horizon I don't know that I want to part with it and consider selling my newer bike, a Versys LT, when I get the itch for something else.

 

I may someday get a Gen 8 Deluxe in white if I can find one when I'm ready but if not I will look at Ninja 1000's and R1200R/RS's.  I'm just glad that I had the chance to purchase one and pleasantly surprised at how much I love riding the bike, looking at the bike, talking about the bike and so on.

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18 minutes ago, Calculon said:

I would look closely at a Crossrunner if it were here in the US.  I don't find them to be a particularly attractive bike but I love the V4 in my Interceptor and would like to have the same motor in a standard or even and adventurish style like the Crossrunner.

 

I actually bought my 07 Interceptor about two years ago on a whim having always wanted the RWB bike.  The thought was that I would rotate out to a different used bike every other year or so to whatever struck my interest at the time.  That was the plan but then I fell in love with the VFR, even though it's a 13 year old bike it's so well built that it holds up compared to newer bikes, maybe not in power and weight but in design and refinement.  And that motor, the sound, it's just the best.  As I look to the horizon I don't know that I want to part with it and consider selling my newer bike, a Versys LT, when I get the itch for something else.

 

I may someday get a Gen 8 Deluxe in white if I can find one when I'm ready but if not I will look at Ninja 1000's and R1200R/RS's.  I'm just glad that I had the chance to purchase one and pleasantly surprised at how much I love riding the bike, looking at the bike, talking about the bike and so on.

I cannot understand why the Crossrunner is not available in the US. I've owned and ridden 5th and 6th Gen VFR800s and the new 8th Gen is the best of them all but as I progress in years, I find the weight on my wrists troubling on an ST bike but the Crossrunner solves that problem. It's the same engine and running gear but an upright seating position and the extra leverage of wider bars mean it's even easier to chuck around. The suspension needs some tweaking but other than that, it's an utterly brilliant bike, as an increasing number of riders, many ex-BMW boxer twin or Triumph ADV riders are finding out. 

 

I really feel for your loss!

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Honda's CEO didn't follow through with a new race bred V4... instead he dropped the strategy that Mr.Honda
put into practice in the 80s and 90s and little Ducati was free to champion a new race bred V4...

 

Quote Japan magazine Young Machine

Honda RVF1000R – Honda is preparing a new superbike with four-cylinder
V engine with which they aim to regain the prominence lost in the
World Superbike. From Japan, Young Machine magazine has produced a
render that promises to be very close to the sporty one that Honda
will put in dealerships from 2019 or 2020, a motorcycle that, unlike
the exclusive RC213V-S of 180,000 euros, the Honda RVF1000R will have
a more affordable price in line with other models of the Superbike
class such as the new Ducati Panigale V4, the Kawasaki ZX-10RR or the
Aprilia RSV4 RF, that is, in the range of 20 to 25 thousand euros.

The idea pursued by Honda is to repeat the strategy that the Japanese
brand already put into practice in the 90s, when the RC45 -successor
of the successful RC30 with V4 engine- coexisted in the market with
the Fireblade 900 RR, a model that at that time could not compete in
the World Superbike to have a cubicle superior to 750 cc. That’s where
the RC45 maintained its small niche market, offering a registered
racing bike that still, to this day, remains an object of desire for
fans of sports bikes of that time.

At the end of the 90s, with the changes in the regulation of the WSBK,
Honda opted for a configuration of two cylinders, then launching the
VTR 1000 SP1, baptized as RC51. Many years later another RC would
arrive, in this case the RC213V-S, derived directly from the MotoGP, a
motorcycle of which only about 200 units are produced each year
strictly numbered, many of them destined to live locked in a museum or
a garage private because of the incalculable value they will have in
the future.

According to the patents that Honda presented in the United States
last March -where you can see an engine in V4 configuration with the
stock anchored to the chassis as in the Ducati Panigale- it is evident
that the future of the brand of the golden wing in Superbikes it is to
leave aside the inefficient CBR 1000 RR Fireblade SP2 and bet on a
model that will be called the Honda RVF1000R.

 

The Honda RVF1000R

In its heart, we will find an engine derived from the one already seen
in the RC213V of MotoGP, a V4 at 90º that, unlike the street RC213V-S,
the Honda RVF1000R will have less exotic materials to reduce costs.

The cycle part will be in line with the rest of the superbikes in the
market, while the chassis could be an evolution of the double beam in
aluminum of the RC213V that would take advantage of the engine as one
more element to reduce its weight and dimensions.

And what will happen with the CBR 1000 RR Fireblade? It seems
difficult for Honda to quit a model with such tradition and with such
an illustrious name. The logical thing would be to think that the

 

Fireblade will continue to be commercialized along with the Honda
RVF1000R from 2019 or 2020, offering a more human model, with a
significantly lower price and benefits below those offered by the V4,
whose estimated power will move between the 210 and the 220 cv.

At the moment, Aprilia is the only brand that bets on the
configuration of four cylinders in V in the WSBK. As of 2019, Ducati
will put on track its Panigale V4, breaking with more than two decades
of two-cylinder tradition in this championship, and everything to the
point that Honda will be the next to rely on a V4 mechanics to fight
for the crown of the Championship of the World of Superbikes in 2020.

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On 2/18/2020 at 11:56 PM, LEGEND said:

Honda tried the v4 thing big time in the 80’s but early failures with the cams on the vf750f .    
 

 

 

 

Negative the problem was not cams but cam bearing blocks...

 

Honda's great cam shaft crisis was the result of a factory cost
cutting measure... they choose to mill the cam bearing blocks
separately... there was no matching of components... consequently the
cam bearing blocks were not line bored with the head... if the
tolerances happened  to add up... the cam will flop about in the
head..   you'll notice the edge of the cams fail first... a sure sign
the cam shaft tilted and was allowed to strike the follower at an
angle... this also explains why some cams go 100K while other only
20K...

 

Honda spent a lot of money replacing hand  cam shafts and matching cam
bearing blocks to erase the blemish on the V4 legacy...


Honda took a lot of stick over this problem and immediately went back
to the expense of line boring the cam bearing blocks in the head...

 

To tell the difference between line bored head and the one that gots
the short cut... take a look at the valve cover gasket... if your gasket
sports little half circles molded into the rubber... then you have the
expensive line bored head... no little half circles... then you have the
short cut heads...

 

gallery_3131_51_75006.jpg

ValveCovers3.JPG

ValveCovers4.JPG

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3 hours ago, Calculon said:

I would look closely at a Crossrunner if it were here in the US.  I don't find them to be a particularly attractive bike but I love the V4 in my Interceptor and would like to have the same motor in a standard or even and adventurish style like the Crossrunner.

 

I actually bought my 07 Interceptor about two years ago on a whim having always wanted the RWB bike.  The thought was that I would rotate out to a different used bike every other year or so to whatever struck my interest at the time.  That was the plan but then I fell in love with the VFR, even though it's a 13 year old bike it's so well built that it holds up compared to newer bikes, maybe not in power and weight but in design and refinement.  And that motor, the sound, it's just the best.  As I look to the horizon I don't know that I want to part with it and consider selling my newer bike, a Versys LT, when I get the itch for something else.

 

I may someday get a Gen 8 Deluxe in white if I can find one when I'm ready but if not I will look at Ninja 1000's and R1200R/RS's.  I'm just glad that I had the chance to purchase one and pleasantly surprised at how much I love riding the bike, looking at the bike, talking about the bike and so on.

RWB VFRs are special, Ive always liked the color combo and how well the 6gen aged. I saw a red one yesterday with a modded single under the seat exhaust that was just rolling down the road slowly. I was like enjoying the look and sound of it. However, as I age, I understand the appeal of a more standard with better ergos bike. I too find myself looking at other brand even if they don’t have the V4. Cross runner would have done just as well as other similar bikes, if only Honda brought it here. Updated electronics and a few extra cc might be necessary to match the competition. Otherwise, the bike looks good and is priced well in Europe.

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There have been various theories on the early VF cam issues, even guys selling kits to add oil lines and reroute some of the flow.  

I own and run an 86 (with the "half moons" yes) and have no issues.

 

 

Choose which theory tou beleive or dismiss as "fake news" on the internet.

https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/v4_cams_what.html

 

https://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/V4_cams.html 

 

 

 

 

One guy crashed his VF400f, kept riding it despite the oil light coming on. Beleiving (you see? one can choose what he beleives is right or wrong). 

 

Hhhhm, I wonder what this could have done to the oil pressure....

IMG_20190727_131148.thumb.jpg.3c84883e9a21ff99b66f49fdc7b64306.jpg

 

That is untill the engine seized...  His loss was my luck in getting a free engine to play with

 

 

The oil pump mounting points were snapped of, hence the pump was rattling around

IMG_20190801_132318.thumb.jpg.0e52174cdda3b8a618fa2a9823474019.jpg

 

 

 

This must have reduced/blocked oil flow

 

OOPSIE....

 

 

IMG_20190727_123110.thumb.jpg.62421dd9d4c2636116fc9bb0b62d522a.jpg

 

 

 

 

IMG_20190727_112857.thumb.jpg.16c0c2bee44bf50ecc589fecc31038fe.jpg

 

 

 

Scrapyard 2.0

IMG_20190801_132130.thumb.jpg.c9f8602b1210f6e85ebfad7e1ad5ce43.jpg

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On 2/23/2020 at 12:19 PM, BusyLittleShop said:

Honda's CEO didn't follow through with a new race bred V4... instead he dropped the strategy that Mr.Honda
put into practice in the 80s and 90s and little Ducati was free to champion a new race bred V4...

 

Quote Japan magazine Young Machine

Honda RVF1000R – Honda is preparing a new superbike with four-cylinder
V engine with which they aim to regain the prominence lost in the
World Superbike. From Japan, Young Machine magazine has produced a
render that promises to be very close to the sporty one that Honda
will put in dealerships from 2019 or 2020, a motorcycle that, unlike
the exclusive RC213V-S of 180,000 euros, the Honda RVF1000R will have
a more affordable price in line with other models of the Superbike
class such as the new Ducati Panigale V4, the Kawasaki ZX-10RR or the
Aprilia RSV4 RF, that is, in the range of 20 to 25 thousand euros.

The idea pursued by Honda is to repeat the strategy that the Japanese
brand already put into practice in the 90s, when the RC45 -successor
of the successful RC30 with V4 engine- coexisted in the market with
the Fireblade 900 RR, a model that at that time could not compete in
the World Superbike to have a cubicle superior to 750 cc. That’s where
the RC45 maintained its small niche market, offering a registered
racing bike that still, to this day, remains an object of desire for
fans of sports bikes of that time.

At the end of the 90s, with the changes in the regulation of the WSBK,
Honda opted for a configuration of two cylinders, then launching the
VTR 1000 SP1, baptized as RC51. Many years later another RC would
arrive, in this case the RC213V-S, derived directly from the MotoGP, a
motorcycle of which only about 200 units are produced each year
strictly numbered, many of them destined to live locked in a museum or
a garage private because of the incalculable value they will have in
the future.

According to the patents that Honda presented in the United States
last March -where you can see an engine in V4 configuration with the
stock anchored to the chassis as in the Ducati Panigale- it is evident
that the future of the brand of the golden wing in Superbikes it is to
leave aside the inefficient CBR 1000 RR Fireblade SP2 and bet on a
model that will be called the Honda RVF1000R.

 

The Honda RVF1000R

In its heart, we will find an engine derived from the one already seen
in the RC213V of MotoGP, a V4 at 90º that, unlike the street RC213V-S,
the Honda RVF1000R will have less exotic materials to reduce costs.

The cycle part will be in line with the rest of the superbikes in the
market, while the chassis could be an evolution of the double beam in
aluminum of the RC213V that would take advantage of the engine as one
more element to reduce its weight and dimensions.

And what will happen with the CBR 1000 RR Fireblade? It seems
difficult for Honda to quit a model with such tradition and with such
an illustrious name. The logical thing would be to think that the

 

Fireblade will continue to be commercialized along with the Honda
RVF1000R from 2019 or 2020, offering a more human model, with a
significantly lower price and benefits below those offered by the V4,
whose estimated power will move between the 210 and the 220 cv.

That fish wrapper magazine has cranked out fake renders of “the next Honda V4” (and at least once, V5!) every couple years since at least 2006.  Zero credibility.

 

Here’s a notoriously bad example from 2008, in which MCN glommed onto a story that originated in Young Bike (without attribution and claiming an “inside source at Honda “)

 

You can read this wretched pile of journalistic excrement here.

https://issuu.com/motorcyclenews/docs/mcnsampler060808

 

 

71A036B6-8F40-40FB-937A-571F9A4D57D6.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Shinigami said:

That fish wrapper magazine has cranked out fake renders of “the next Honda V4” (and at least once, V5!) every couple years since at least 2006.  Zero credibility.

 

 

 

 

aaah. I'd do a murder fro a proper one......

 

 

 

 

De bronafbeelding bekijken

 

:goofy:

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As Honda employee at a dealership (sales), sport bikes just don't sell, nobody wants them. We sell small bikes like Grom, Monkey, and a Gloldwing every now and again. Don't get me started on SxS cause this is what we sell most (yuck). A Honda reprehensive told me that America is way down in the pecking order bikes sold, maybe 4th or 5th in the world. The VFR is still sold in European as well as VFR1200x and the VFR800x. I find this sad but if no one buys the product, Honda isn't bring it in only the sit on showrooms collecting dust. The Baby Boomers got old hence there went the American motorcycle market. Oh yeah, I have an 2014 VFR800 an a CB500X. I got my VFR from Honda as a close out from them cause it sat in the crate in Honda's Wearhouse  for 4 years! They took $2,000 off dearer cost. Love the BIKE!!    

vfr1_(2).JPG

vfr.JPG

vfr5.JPG

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1 hour ago, zoomnad said:

. A Honda reprehensive told me

 

 

 

 

:goofy:

  • Haha 1

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11 hours ago, Shinigami said:

That fish wrapper magazine has cranked out fake renders of “the next Honda V4” (and at least once, V5!) every couple years since at least 2006.  Zero credibility.

 

 

 

 

 

True but Honda's own CEO is credible...

 

Quote Honda President/CEO Takanobu Ito (2009-2015)

Since its market introduction in 1987, the RC30 [VFR750R] supersports
bike has been loved by a large number of fans. With a goal to create a
new history, passionate Honda engineers have gotten together and have
begun development of a new supersports bike to which new technologies
from MotoGP machines will be applied.

 

Quote Bike Sport News

Honda's CEO said last week the company intends to build a new
superbike in the spirit of the RVF750 (RC30) and if that bike achieves
a fraction of what its predecessor managed,

 

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