This is what happens...

[ShipFixer]

Oh it's not you or anyone else...I think we all just latched on to "What's going on with these tires?" in different ways :lol:

[DannoXYZ]

4 hours ago, Fritzer said:

Would you happen to have the part numbers for the taper bearing switchover?

All-Balls sells them as separate top & bottom sets. Look up this chart: https://www.allballsracing.com/forkconversion

[JZH]

The "quality" issue is directly related to the fact that All Balls doesn't make bearings.  They just buy standard industrial bearings in bulk (from wherever) and re-package them for the motorcycle aftermarket.  If they only sold SKF, Timken, Nachi, NTN, etc., then there would be no issue at all.  Do they?  Or do they buy cheaper bearings?  Anyone got a set on hand?  The manufacturer's name will be etched into the edge.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

[adkfinn]

40 minutes ago, JZH said:

The "quality" issue is directly related to the fact that All Balls doesn't make bearings.  They just buy standard industrial bearings in bulk (from wherever) and re-package them for the motorcycle aftermarket.  If they only sold SKF, Timken, Nachi, NTN, etc., then there would be no issue at all.  Do they?  Or do they buy cheaper bearings?  Anyone got a set on hand?  The manufacturer's name will be etched into the edge.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

 

Any suggestions for a source for high quality tapered bearing sets? This is on my list for spring maintenance

[bmart]

One of many. I'll try to find our other entry and post there also. I've heard countless problems. 

 

http://forums.13x.com/index.php?threads/all-balls-bearings-chinese-trash.353730/

[raYzerman]

I have no issues with AllBalls for the steering head, this is a low risk application..... for wheel bearings, I'll use OEM, they aren't a lot of money really.

[Captain 80s]

20 minutes ago, bmart said:

One of many. I'll try to find our other entry and post there also. I've heard countless problems. 

 

http://forums.13x.com/index.php?threads/all-balls-bearings-chinese-trash.353730/

 

What does that prove?  I was expecting to read about a catastrophic steering head bearing failure.  It's just people talking about the same thing we are.

 

We know where they likely come from, but for this application they have performed and lasted, and are easily sourced.

 

As stated repeatedly, most of us source OEM quality bearings for every other application.

[Captain 80s]

Of the three Bearings suppliers mentioned in that thread, Pivot Works looks pretty decent.

 

Boss Bearings offered 2 Brands:  Boss and Bike Master

 

WorldWide Bearings seems to specialize in Ceramic.

 

Thanks for the lead, bmart!

[bmart]

1 hour ago, Captain 80s said:

What does that prove? 

Nothing. Install what you like. I've tried them before and they simply didn't fit, so I found quality units instead. Trying to save someone else the hassle. 

[ducnut]

If you guys want Japanese bearings, contact Cole at Dubya USA. He has most wheel bearings on the shelf. They buy from a bearing importer that’s right close to them, in Orange, California. I’d think that importer would have tapered bearings available, as well. Unfortunately, I don’t know the business name AND they may only be a wholesaler, IDK. 
 

As for All Balls, I have their tapered steering stem bearings in all three of my bikes. I’ve sold quite few sets of their entire variety of bearings, in both shops I’ve worked at, without issues with the bearings, themselves. In general, the most prevalent bearing issues I’ve seen are from a lack of servicing and general abuse (submarining, pressure washer use, etc). YMMV. 

[DannoXYZ]

So there's some complaints of seals not matching. But not single case of steering or wheel bearing failure.

 

I've used their tapered bearing kits in over 20 of my bikes over the years without issues. One of them going on 35-years now. 

 

Their tapered steering bearings solved a head-shaking issue I had cresting hill in turn-1 @ Laguna Seca. Scary @ 120mph! After installing their steering bearing kit, smooth as silk!!!  Didn't realise I was holding back due to the shake, can hit 125mph over that turn now! 

[ducnut]

Tapered head bearings are definitely smooth as butter. It’s one of those little things one wouldn’t think they’d notice, until they have them. 

[squirrelman]

many racers prefer the lower friction of a ball bearing setup that provides more sensitive feedback of front tire traction.  found this out when talking with factory team mechanics at an AMA race.

[Captain 80s]

23 minutes ago, squirrelman said:

many racers prefer the lower friction of a ball bearing setup that provides more sensitive feedback of front tire traction.  found this out when talking with factory team mechanics at an AMA race.

 

I'll inform my team I want them disassembled, cleaned and inspected every (race) weekend.

 

Yeah, I've read that before too.  Some of the team riders liked ball and some preferred tapered.

 

I'll have to say I prefer the feel of tapered, and the longevity is a bonus 

[DannoXYZ]

I actually use tapered bearings on bottom cup and ball-bearings on upper cup. Best of both!. :)

[JZH]

I'm surprised that it is so difficult to find basic industrial bearings and seals in the USA.

 

I've had no problems at all finding "proper" bearing and seal suppliers in the UK and EU over the last 25 years or so.  The only one I know of in the USA is/was CBR Bearing, but this company seems to have exited the retail side of the market.  Here are a few of the European online bearing suppliers I've used in the past:

 

https://www.123bearing.co.uk/

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/

https://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/home.php

 

The safest thing to do, of course, is to buy all of your parts from Honda.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

[SEBSPEED]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:22 PM, squirrelman said:

many racers prefer the lower friction of a ball bearing setup that provides more sensitive feedback of front tire traction.  found this out when talking with factory team mechanics at an AMA race.

 

I remember the first time I installed a set of tapered bearings. The first couple hundred feet down the road doing a little swervy testing I thought "oh no what have I done, it feels so much heavier and vague!"... then I got to the first corner and it felt so planted I forgot all about losing the finer feel. 

[Captain 80s]

1 hour ago, JZH said:

I'm surprised that it is so difficult to find basic industrial bearings and seals in the USA.

 

I've had no problems at all finding "proper" bearing and seal suppliers in the UK and EU over the last 25 years or so.  The only one I know of in the USA is/was CBR Bearing, but this company seems to have exited the retail side of the market.  Here are a few of the European online bearing suppliers I've used in the past:

 

https://www.123bearing.co.uk/

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/

https://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/home.php

 

The safest thing to do, of course, is to buy all of your parts from Honda.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

 

I use the 123bearings website all the time to find certain sizes and dimensions. Then I search the web to purchase that particular (quality) bearing or seal in the states.

 

We used to have true bearings houses in the Seattle area many years ago, but they're gone now.

[mello dude]

On 1/7/2022 at 1:05 AM, DannoXYZ said:

I actually use tapered bearings on bottom cup and ball-bearings on upper cup. Best of both!. 🙂

I like that idea....

[skihands]

On 1/8/2022 at 3:49 PM, mello dude said:

I like that idea....

Tapered roller bearings take less preload, mixing round ball and tapered bearings would likely still pit the races on the ball bearings.

I just installed an All Balls set of tapered roller bearings, they were made in India, and came crunchy with contaminants right from the package.

I would not use them for a high speed application, but for a headset - they are fine.

Would have liked to have bought top quality tapered rollers, but no one sells a kit in the USA,

[MaxSwell]

I do not know what brand of bearings my dealer, Honda Town in Minneapolis, uses but I've had them replace the steeringhead bearings in all five of the 5th gens I've owned. They make a huge difference in the stability of the front end.

 

The first time I experienced a shaking front end the dealer could see cupping in the front tire so I had it replaced. The shake did not go away. So the service manager put the bike on the center stand and raised the front wheel off the ground. Rotating the handle bars slowly back and forth lock-to-lock, a notch was detected in the middle of the arc. That was the indication of worn steeringhead bearings. 

 

Every one of the bikes developed the shake around 30,000 miles, give or take a couple of thousand miles.

[JZH]

FWIW, the following information (relating to an RC36) is from my bearings page:

 

Steering stem bearing—upper angular contact ball

91015-KT8-005

32005X Japan MCI

26

47

15

(note ID—must be 26mm)

 

 

steering stem bearing—upper tapered roller

91015-425-832

N/A

26

47

15

(note ID—must be 26mm)

 

 

steering stem bearing dust seal—upper

53214-KA4-701

N/A

27

48

4

metal ring with rubber edge

 

 

steering stem bearing—lower angular contact ball

91016-KT8-005

32006JR Japan MCI

30

55

17

 

 

steering stem bearing—lower tapered roller

91016-371-000

N/A

30

55

17

(32006JRRS— has integral dust seal)

 

 

steering stem bearing dust seal—lower

53214-371-010

N/A

31

56

4

metal ring with rubber edge

 

Those are the Honda part numbers and the bearing dimensions/names of the steering stem bearings (both tapered and ball).

 

IIRC, US dealers used to get their tapered sets from wholesale suppliers like K&L or Parts Unlimited.  I've had those sets in the past, and one of the brands I know of was Parts Plus (they were, like All Balls, simply re-packaged industrial bearings--in this case, the bearings were manufactured by MCI, which is a Koyo subsidiary in Italy).  

 

Ciao,

 

JZH