VifferCrab Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Working with the seller to find a reasonable outcome for the tank cover. I'll keep my comments to myself; until I get to test their customer service protocols, but other than the cover, most everything buttoned up as OEM plastics would. Taking one of these naked, then back to full dress, isn't for everyone, no doubt That said, the most work I've done on a motorcycle before this, consisted of air filter changes and scooping up chicks and tossing them in the backseat during beach week in high school. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Did you ask them for install tips for the tank cover? Sounds like you changed your mind on it. They do refunds for stuff like that? So, I didn't change my mind, it was changed for me. As it turns out, the tank cover from this particular seller/kit is not of the same ABS injected mold quality as the rest of the fairings. This piece, is compression molded, and has an incredibly weak seam down the center of it. It wasn't even close as far as fitment, the bolt holes nearest the seat didn't line up at all, and the tab that contained the two most forward bolt holes near the triple tree, broke off completely. The shell split from the part nearest the seat as well, right up that seam, towards the gas flap hole. So, I've decided to just paint the tank to match the cover, and ask for a refund of the cover. If this is the material that older kits were made of, I can COMPLETELY understand everyone's frustration with installing them. Good lord, I'd have punched myself repeatedly in the face, if I purchased a full kit made of this material. Also, the windscreen they sent looks okay at first, but is pretty flimsy and the bolt holes don't line up. That was a freebie toss-in, so nothing lost there. With all that said, I have to stress that the fairings, instrument bezel, and all of the little plastics forward of gas tank, and under the nose, are all VERY close to being 100% spot-on fitment wise. I slightly enlarged maybe 4 holes that the push-pins had trouble getting into. Honestly, had I left those alone and muscled the pins in place, it'd probably fit. I just didn't want to risk cracking a fairing mount point, because I over muscled a piece, so i bored out a few holes ever so slightly. That may have cost me a few mm's in fitment gap somewhere along the line, but having never ever done anything like this before, and kinda just tossing caution the wind, I'm happy the way it came out. Hell, my OEM fairings had gaps up near the front of the bike from shops taking them off and reinstalling. I'm taking the tank cover to a painter today, to find out the cost to paint my tank to match it exactly. Can't imagine it's THAT much, and hopefully the company feels good about refunding my cost of the cover. I'll put up some pics to the cover, so everyone can see. My guess is maybe they haven't made too many of these, especially since they're not offered with their kit. They just got this one wrong, but everything else right. From conception, to ordering, to custom painting, to installation, I have to whole heartedly endorse this purchase. For $400 shipped, without tank cover, you're gonna be hard pressed to beat it. Opt-in for the bolt kit, that should come with it. Even though I didn't use their bolts ( I went with RED from Pro Bolt), it comes with an assortment of push-pins that work well to tighten everything up. Don't fall in love with the windscreen, it's not great and I can't even get it to work at all. Gonna grab a double bubble, I suppose... Are they 100% the same as OEM? Nope. But they're every bit of 90% the same. One little touch I'd like to see them include, is on the fairing mounting points where screws connect plastic to plastic (not frame bolts). Everything lines up fine, no worries. But the OEM fairings, have nice metal threads where the bolt screws into. These do not, however they snugged up just fine. I'd also like to see them include all of the fairing clips and grommets that I had to convey from the OEM ones. Time consuming, and nerve racking as you have to put a fair amount of pressure to get some of these grommets in. I was so worried about busting off a mounting point. I think Greg above, noted to use a lubricant. Take his advice... I'll try to answer any questions honestly, and fully. I know I probably missed some in this thread, since I was banging knuckles, yelling MF'er, snapping pics, and updating here near real-time as I was installing. So, fire away... thanks for following along. I didn't think about this before, but your color scheme would be a prime candidate for the clear or smoke version of the turn signal and tail light lenses that Thurn and others sell: Yes, will be a Spring project for sure, now that I have some comfort removing and installing everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VifferCrab Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Here's the Cliff's Notes version for those not wanting to read 31 pages: From this to this: For $399 including custom paint and shipping. Wheels, seat, exhaust, grips, levers and mirrors, not included. :) Gas tank incomplete at this moment... And a pic of my wife, because she's hot. Oh, and color scheme based on her home country's flag. That about sums up the last 31 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VifferCrab Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Can't remember if I posted a top pic of the cowl. Excuse the dull paint as my greasy fingers muted the gloss... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 007 Posted October 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 1, 2015 Here's the Cliff's Notes version for those not wanting to read 31 pages: From this to this: For $399 including custom paint and shipping. Wheels, seat, and exhaust not included. :) Gas tank incomplete at this moment... And a pic of my wife, because she's hot. Oh, and color scheme based on her home country's flag. That about sums up the last 31 pages. You know, there is a rally in the Spring called TMAC where you can show off your... um ... assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I didn't think about this before, but your color scheme would be a prime candidate for the clear or smoke version of the turn signal and tail light lenses that Thurn and others sell: I just went and looked at my 07 RWB. Don't all 6th gens come with clear lenses and taillights? Maybe that's an 07 thing? Not sure...bought mine used. The PO may have swapped them out? Most of what I read on other forums about the tank cover says the same thing: Junk. Not designed well. I have yet to see fotos of one installed on ANY bike. That's why I was curious to hear what they said about installing it. In my mind, even if it had not cracked/split, I cannot figure out how in the world that thing would have successfully gone on the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted October 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 1, 2015 On 6th gens, '06 through '09 have clear lenses - '02 through '05 amber. IIRC, Honda changed the style of the bulb sockets, so there's some finagling required to make the swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 THAT is why you have 2748 posts. Nicely done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VifferCrab Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 I didn't think about this before, but your color scheme would be a prime candidate for the clear or smoke version of the turn signal and tail light lenses that Thurn and others sell: I just went and looked at my 07 RWB. Don't all 6th gens come with clear lenses and taillights? Maybe that's an 07 thing? Not sure...bought mine used. The PO may have swapped them out? Most of what I read on other forums about the tank cover says the same thing: Junk. Not designed well. I have yet to see fotos of one installed on ANY bike. That's why I was curious to hear what they said about installing it. In my mind, even if it had not cracked/split, I cannot figure out how in the world that thing would have successfully gone on the tank. Yep. My infinite wisdom was that since the fairings were nice ABS injected, that somehow the tank cover would be. Never dawned on me that the tank skin would be different, until someone mentioned a thread a day or two ago. And actually, that guy's tank cover turned out well. There's no chance my cover would've fit as well as his did. I'll put some pics up of tank cover this evening. It's laughable... Talked to painter today, piece of cake. Just need to figure out how to remove the tank. Off to search the forum... Here's the thread to the semi-succesfull tank cover: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/72267-6th-gen-rebuild-project/page-6#entry854442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted October 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 1, 2015 The failure of the tank cover means I won't be ordering a fairing kit. I had high hopes that the tank cover woes posted the last few years had been remedied. My plastics are perfect, but I wanted to changes colors. There's no point in me doing it because I don't want to fool with having the tank painted. Hopefully in the next year or two they will come up with a way to make a good tank cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VifferCrab Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 I can't imagine it's that hard to pull the tank. I guess I'm gonna find out... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The failure of the tank cover means I won't be ordering a fairing kit. I had high hopes that the tank cover woes posted the last few years had been remedied. My plastics are perfect, but I wanted to changes colors. There's no point in me doing it because I don't want to fool with having the tank painted. Hopefully in the next year or two they will come up with a way to make a good tank cover. Yes, that is exactly the point of what a fairing kit with custom paint and matching tank cover could be vs having to have the tank custom painted which could cost as much or more then the entire kit cost. I haven't spent much time at all with the newer Injection kits tank cover, but after splitting the other tank cover on my old non-injection kit it looked decent installed and matched the kit. If they could get these tank skins down, it would be a great mod. Tank cover: non-injection. This kit was 4-5 years old when installed and i was running a mini tank bag that covered the split cover perfectly. BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'll still be ordering a plain candy glory red kit with in the next month or two. I don't need a tank cover, front fender or wind screen, so hopefully I can get the price down a tad. Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRicer Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 what tank bag is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted October 2, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 2, 2015 Tank cover: non-injection. This kit was 4-5 years old when installed and i was running a mini tank bag that covered the split cover perfectly. BR Do the tank bag magnets do anything on the cover or is the mini bag only held on by a strap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Tank cover: non-injection. This kit was 4-5 years old when installed and i was running a mini tank bag that covered the split cover perfectly. BR Do the tank bag magnets do anything on the cover or is the mini bag only held on by a strap? No magnets work on these, but I Velcro'ed a metal mounting plate right over the split that the bag stuck to. Don't remember the brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So, I didn't change my mind, it was changed for me. As it turns out, the tank cover from this particular seller/kit is not of the same ABS injected mold quality as the rest of the fairings. This piece, is compression molded, and has an incredibly weak seam down the center of it. It wasn't even close as far as fitment, the bolt holes nearest the seat didn't line up at all, and the tab that contained the two most forward bolt holes near the triple tree, broke off completely. The shell split from the part nearest the seat as well, right up that seam, towards the gas flap hole. So, I've decided to just paint the tank to match the cover, and ask for a refund of the cover. If this is the material that older kits were made of, I can COMPLETELY understand everyone's frustration with installing them. Good lord, I'd have punched myself repeatedly in the face, if I purchased a full kit made of this material. Aww, man - that sucks, VifferCrab! Auctmarts - I am disappoint. The rest of it looks great, though! And overall, all the mods you've done look awesome. Once the tank problem is sorted you'll have a real gem. The failure of the tank cover means I won't be ordering a fairing kit. I had high hopes that the tank cover woes posted the last few years had been remedied. My plastics are perfect, but I wanted to changes colors. There's no point in me doing it because I don't want to fool with having the tank painted. Hopefully in the next year or two they will come up with a way to make a good tank cover. +1 on that, but I'm going to wait on the arrival of thebigtea's set (as mentioned on p23) to see if he has any more success with his tank cover before I write off auctmarts. I like the suggestion of warming up the tank cover in a bath of hot water first - but it'll still rely on the quality of the material and manufacturing. From Viffercrab's description it sounds like manufacturing & material quality was sadly lacking on the one he got. I'm also looking at some of the other vendors of injection-molded fairing sets who list tank covers as an option (a couple of them mentioned in the thread VifferCrab quoted earlier, plus the "advan racing" lot on ebay) - they're generally more expensive than auctmarts, though. I may do some research with those guys as to the method used for manufacturing (injection/compression) and suggested installation method for their tank covers before giving up hope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 OK, now I have to ask since I've seen it a few times. Injection vs. compression? Talk amongst yourselves (and let me listen in over your shoulder.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted October 2, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 2, 2015 The last time I looked on eBay, all the tank covers were compression molded, even when the rest of the kit parts were injection. I wouldn't be surprised if the various ebay vendors are all getting the plastics from the same sources. Hopefully someone is producing an injection molded cover now or will soon. Wgret, the compression molded stuff has had poor fitment, brittle tabs, etc. Injection molded stuff has shown a much better fit and resilient tabs. Both are ABS plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRpwr Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Plastic geek here - Injection molding uses a family of plastics called "thermoplastics" (typically that is, you few magnesium injection weirdos don't count) those are materials that when heated to, or past, a certain temperature will become pliable and be able to 'move' before they actually melt into a smelly pool on the floor. Compression molding uses a family of plastics called thermosets and those plastics do not move when heated - they just degrade and burn and smell. - It is far easier to mold a complex, almost completely spherical shape like a bike tank in the compression process than it would be to make an injection mold for a tank - compression can be done at 1/100 the cost of a collapsing core injection mold. Compression is far more suited for complex, undercut shapes like a bike tank cover. Unfortunately, even though Honda's steel tank stamping and welding process is likely repeatable to less than a total of .050" in any direction on the finished tank (and it likely is) I wouldn't even consider a plastic tank cover as there is far more variability in the cover sizing itself - in other words; it ain't never gonna' fit right even if you get it on without breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VifferCrab Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Bummer because of how great the rest of the kit turned out. Auctmarts has eyes on this thread, I've confirmed. Doubt they'll reply but you never know. Got estimate for a couple hundred to paint the metal tank exactly to match the cover. If they refund my $89 for the cover, we're talking a small net -minus in the big scheme of things to have it painted. Just the small labor to yank the tank. Hold on to your butts, here's the tank skin. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Buy the fairing kit, pass on the tank cover. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for posting those pics. Ouch! :sad2: Did they ever get back to you with any tips or suggestions as to the installation process for that, or were you left hanging? Obviously not an option for your custom paint job, but I'm wondering if something like a Top Sellerie or Bagster leather tank cover might be a good alternative for those of us who are just looking for a switch of color... Those look like they'd cover (and protect!) the entire tank. Or maybe a repainted color-matched original tank wouldn't be that expensive after all. It's not like I'm going to switch the fairings back and forth as the wind changes. And if the fairing itself is only $400... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VifferCrab Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 They've already replied to my email. 100% refund on the tank cover, they just wanted to see pics of it first. I'll update when the refund has actually been processed. I took the tank cover to a body shop and asked them how much to make my metal tank look exactly like it. Couple hundred bucks, and it's a fancy 3 color design. I'm sure a single color respray and clear coat, is a walk in the park for a body shop. My tank is a bit more involved Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 007 Posted October 2, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 2, 2015 All of this modding got me thinking since I have considered a second paint scheme on my own VFR (DANGER, continuing to read my post may expose an existential crisis!). Perhaps, rather than a tank cover, I have considered a second tank in the new color scheme to go with the second fairing set. This would make it infinitely more convenient to switch back and forth. What happens when, dare I say it, a new scratch is added to the new fairings? Do I spend more time and/or money fixing it? I once attempted to renew a fairing on my RWB and arguably spent enough money and time (the latter, for me anyways, is more expensive than the actual money spent) when compared to the cost of a new Honda part shipped to my door. I eventually bought the new replacement part after realizing I am terrible at anything involving paint, and after realizing this flaw. At this point, I was out money, time, and with additional frustration to boot. Should I buy a second VFR? One that I ride and accept that various forms of damage are likely to occur as miles pile on, and the other in more "perfect" condition? Should I go out of my way to keep one of the two bikes looking new and trade parts if necessary? Should I keep old, worn out parts in the basement "just in case" of a mishap? Wouldn't I eventually become frustrated with a bike that isn't a looker and eventually have the uglier bike painted (or order a third Chinese knock-off fairing set replacement)? Do I see my paint as a reflection of my very being, and do I overcompensate to cover my own personal flaws? I considered a set of red fairings or Repsol orange fairings as there is an element of deep satisfaction associated with either of those colors, but I also love the RWB scheme and can't have it all. At some point, the satisfaction of the new change will wear off (probably sooner rather than later), and the complications that ensue will obfuscate the original intent of the activity. My own conclusion is that I should make the changes that are of value to me, mostly if function of a particular part is impaired. Riding the bike is infinitely more valuable than how it looks, and I should embrace its flaws, as I do my own. The second law of thermodynamics suggests that fighting the entropy is futile. Then again, I must find something to do when the weather does not cooperate. I wonder if there is a sale of motorcycle parts going on somewhere. Carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 2, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 2, 2015 Anybody have a gas tank shrinker ? Darn , hate it for you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VifferCrab Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Anybody have a gas tank shrinker ? Darn , hate it for you . Little bit of a bummer since everything turned out darn near perfect except for that. Not a huge deal, just a few days at the painter. With the storms killing us in the mid-atlantic, I haven't lost much riding time during the build anyway. My instant gratification gene wants me to take the tank off this weekend and drop it for paint on Monday, then pick it back up on Thursday or so. But, we're expecting VERY nice weather at the end of the week, and any delays in the paint booth would mean I'd miss that time. It's gonna get cold, quick. That's not a huge problem for me, but for that Caribbean beauty that rides pillion, it is. Anything under 75* is considered a polar vortex to her. I'd rather ride her with the scratched up tank, than not at all. And if the red paint on the tank was nice, shiny and new looking red, I think I might even leave it there for a while, just to be different. But it's an eye sore now with those pristine looking fairings surrounding it. It's gonna bug me... Anyway, I appreciate the support from everyone and those following along. Almost there... will update when I get the tank situated. All of this modding got me thinking since I have considered a second paint scheme on my own VFR (DANGER, continuing to read my post may expose an existential crisis!). Perhaps, rather than a tank cover, I have considered a second tank in the new color scheme to go with the second fairing set. This would make it infinitely more convenient to switch back and forth. What happens when, dare I say it, a new scratch is added to the new fairings? Do I spend more time and/or money fixing it? I once attempted to renew a fairing on my RWB and arguably spent enough money and time (the latter, for me anyways, is more expensive than the actual money spent) when compared to the cost of a new Honda part shipped to my door. I eventually bought the new replacement part after realizing I am terrible at anything involving paint, and after realizing this flaw. At this point, I was out money, time, and with additional frustration to boot. Should I buy a second VFR? One that I ride and accept that various forms of damage are likely to occur as miles pile on, and the other in more "perfect" condition? Should I go out of my way to keep one of the two bikes looking new and trade parts if necessary? Should I keep old, worn out parts in the basement "just in case" of a mishap? Wouldn't I eventually become frustrated with a bike that isn't a looker and eventually have the uglier bike painted (or order a third Chinese knock-off fairing set replacement)? Do I see my paint as a reflection of my very being, and do I overcompensate to cover my own personal flaws? I considered a set of red fairings or Repsol orange fairings as there is an element of deep satisfaction associated with either of those colors, but I also love the RWB scheme and can't have it all. At some point, the satisfaction of the new change will wear off (probably sooner rather than later), and the complications that ensue will obfuscate the original intent of the activity. My own conclusion is that I should make the changes that are of value to me, mostly if function of a particular part is impaired. Riding the bike is infinitely more valuable than how it looks, and I should embrace its flaws, as I do my own. The second law of thermodynamics suggests that fighting the entropy is futile. Then again, I must find something to do when the weather does not cooperate. I wonder if there is a sale of motorcycle parts going on somewhere. Carry on! Nice. I'm actually diggin' the second tank idea, actually. Hadn't thought about that. I'm going to want to change it again, I'm sure. Now that I have some familiarity with swapping them out, I'd be willing to bet another $400, that I'll have a second set within a year or two. Do something radical for a summer maybe. Make it Kawasaki green! *GASP* :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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