Member Contributer MBrane Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 ^What vfrAustin said. I was actually going to make some comment about "What the weirdo from the weird part of TX said" until I saw "Flemmington, NJ" But in all seriousness about my "from the 80's" comment, while I love my '85 Kawi, if I had to pick a bike to live with day in, day out, it would be something modern with fuel injection and a reliable source of parts. To me, both my current bikes, and most anything from the mid-'90s and onward would work. Good brakes, suspension, bolts not made from Swiss cheese, and a magic button that starts the engine without the need for anything more than a manual enrichment lever. Heck, some magic buttons don't even need that, just thumb it and go! I also said that part of the reason I went with the '99 was that it was the right price at the right time, but a part of the "emotional" decision is that I have a completely baseless avoidance of V-TEC. Can't say I've really heard anything worse than some people having problems with throttle positioning/fuel delivery, but then I hear that about a lot of bikes with fuel injection. The V-TEC on the 6th gens sure seems to be on par with the 5th gen as far as durability/maintenance goes. Bear in mind this is coming from a lustful Ducati owner who has put off riding his Ducati for some months due to laziness in adjusting his ST3's valves that tend to develop gaps you could measure with a Deluxe Extra Delicious Super Sized Bacon Cheezeburger. My advise would be to gather up the tools, and take a day to adjust those valves. Once you've done it once you'll wonder what all the fuss is about. Not nearly as involved as a 6th gen VFR. Just make sure you don't have any interruptions/distractions, and you'll be fine. Desmos are fascinating machines. As for the whole 5th vs 6th gen thing what can I say I'm biased. Been looking at getting a 6th though. There's some sweet deals to be had around here lately, and adding one to the stable would mean only 3 other generations to make the collection complete. That is if you don't count the racing versions, but I don't have the disposable income for that complete a collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRJake Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Also, I've ridden neither bike. OK, so not only are you an eloquent writer as proven by your first post, but you are also ignorant of the 2 bikes that is the focus of this thread as well? Why would you even comment in this thread if not to provoke a irritable reply from me? It must be wintertime again...... Everyone has PMS Parked Motorcycle Syndrome Nope. Well, not yet. I just have no tolerance for ill mannered kids playing on the internet. You seem upset. I explained myself. Would it help if I grabbed a thesaurus to make the wording more eloquent? I don't want to sit here and start riling anyone up and looking like the forum asshole, I just thought it was goofy the way you started the discussion you aimed not to start within the same paragraph. I rolled my eyes, hit reply, and here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 1. Yamaha made the engines for the SHO Taurus cars. They were quick, too. 2. Stop working on my side of the street, I am the forum asshole. 3. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 but since we are shooting the breeze... 30mpg in a car? How about 60mpg in real life? (Mfr states 70mpg) Very quiet diesel, plenty torque, 120mph... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Don't recognize that Dutchy, I'm guessing it is one of the many diesel options we don't get over here in the states? Though I think I saw that Audi is planning on bringing more diesels to us over here... hope people buy them. (I would at least look at them, if I were buying a car) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 That's a Renault. Since you renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries, I doubt it will be imported into the US Modern diesels have come a long way, they even win LeMans these days. Not with this one, it is a 1.5liter, 110BHP.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Polarbear Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ah! Renault.... Sigh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 We don't get any of the good stuff over here. No one would buy it anyways. Average person here buys a car on fancy electronics and looks instead of how good of a car it is. Fuel consumption doesn't matter since the gas pedal is treated like an on-off switch, so owners would just sue when they don't get the EPA est mpg. I've been in a Toyota Corolla diesel where the third row seating (yes, a six seater corolla), was more comfortable than the second row seats in a Suburban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRJake Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 We don't get any of the good stuff over here. No one would buy it anyways. Average person here buys a car on fancy electronics and looks instead of how good of a car it is. Fuel consumption doesn't matter since the gas pedal is treated like an on-off switch, so owners would just sue when they don't get the EPA est mpg. I've been in a Toyota Corolla diesel where the third row seating (yes, a six seater corolla), was more comfortable than the second row seats in a Suburban. Seems like when we do start getting different things here, they don't sell anyway. Wagon versions (Dodge Magnum, Caddy CTS) never even come close to the sales of the sedan/coupe versions. I'm sure if we started getting diesel versions here, people would be like, "Yeah, but diesel costs so much more than regular, there's no way it's worth it!" It's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ugghh..Been there, done that!....I'm done with Euro cars. Only way I'd buy another one is if I win the Lotto, then I can throw all the money on one just to keep it running.... Pentosin....Ad-blue, anyone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Bassie Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 That's a Renault. Since you renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries, I doubt it will be imported into the US Wrong, Fries are in fact Belgian Fries, but some stupid soldier in WW2 bought a bag of fried potatoes in Belgium (sadly the south part speaks French) and though he still was in France. So it's French Fries.....but it's wrong. The true name is Belgian Fries.....and trust me, the French have nothing to do with it....it's Belgian Fries!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ugghh..Been there, done that!....I'm done with Euro cars. Only way I'd buy another one is if I win the Lotto, then I can throw all the money on one just to keep it running.... Pentosin....Ad-blue, anyone?? You just need to move on from that MG midget to something a bit more reliable, like a TR6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrAustin Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 That's a Renault. Since you renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries, I doubt it will be imported into the US Wrong, Fries are in fact Belgian Fries, but some stupid soldier in WW2 bought a bag of fried potatoes in Belgium (sadly the south part speaks French) and though he still was in France. So it's French Fries.....but it's wrong. The true name is Belgian Fries.....and trust me, the French have nothing to do with it....it's Belgian Fries!!! In order to derail this thread further, they are "frites" and the Belgians are without a doubt the best at it!!!! It was all I ate while there. Gained a couple lb's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ugghh..Been there, done that!....I'm done with Euro cars. Only way I'd buy another one is if I win the Lotto, then I can throw all the money on one just to keep it running.... Pentosin....Ad-blue, anyone?? You just need to move on from that MG midget to something a bit more reliable, like a TR6... Tried a TR7 and still crap! Maybe an X1/9 might finally do the trick!!........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 We don't get any of the good stuff over here. No one would buy it anyways. Average person here buys a car on fancy electronics and looks instead of how good of a car it is. Fuel consumption doesn't matter since the gas pedal is treated like an on-off switch, so owners would just sue when they don't get the EPA est mpg. I've been in a Toyota Corolla diesel where the third row seating (yes, a six seater corolla), was more comfortable than the second row seats in a Suburban. Seems like when we do start getting different things here, they don't sell anyway. Wagon versions (Dodge Magnum, Caddy CTS) never even come close to the sales of the sedan/coupe versions. I'm sure if we started getting diesel versions here, people would be like, "Yeah, but diesel costs so much more than regular, there's no way it's worth it!" It's a shame. Like VFR's ! They don't sell in the US either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I was under the impression if I dumped my wife for a later gen that is an upgrade, doh what is this thread about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted December 5, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 5, 2012 Marriedman, If you want back on topic, just shout....... :-) If as a married man, you are interested in Renaults, here is the dashboard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Patat Met Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Cam Gear Whine Obsession = BullShit that Matters to Folks who Elevate Form Over Function. Can we have an honest discussion of the meanimgful differences between the 5th Gen and the 6th Gen? The answer to that question is likely, "No." Ask here on this and other overseas VFR forums how many people have had CCT problems (many more than some have stated in this thread) and you might just change your opinion... this kind of failure (and required expenditure to rectify) is clear evidence that the chain driven system on the 6th gen is far inferior to the gear driven one on the 5th gen. BUT, the 6th has other advantages... I've had both, started on a 5th gen, bought a 6th gen and kept both for some time, swapping from one to the other at will, finally sold the 5th gen, not because one was better than the other, just that the 6th had less miles clocked up. The 6th gen has a much lesser quality build in certain areas and these are definitely the electronic side. Sales of the 6th gen were blocked in the US until Honda provided a solution to the critical electronic failure that plagued the early 6th gen units... stator failure, R/R failure, burning connectors... on the 5th gen mostly only the R/R goes, as on many other bikes. Not being able to start the bike is not as big an issue as suddenly having the bike shut down whilst riding in traffic or mid-curve. The clutch basket on the 6th gen is also known to wear grooves in it causing a similar noise to the CCT noise... this problem is not as common as the CCT or Stator issues but does exist. The 5th gen doesn't have these problems and if you have a 98-99 5th gen (no Cat Con), you don't get teh fuel mapping issues like on later models. The Chasis and greater diameter front forks on the 6th gen are a welcome upgrade... the bike simply handles better... but VTEC means the 5th gen will pull away from lower down... in my experience on the track (40 VFRs from all gens at a track day and many other track days with a handful of VFRs) the 5th gens get away at the start of the straights, but then are eaten up through the curves (similar level riders). Both models are undersprung. The 6th gen has many holes in the fuel mapping... all those emission controls are the culprit. Ergonomically they are almost identical, the 5th being slightly more comfortable for long-legged human beings (I cannot speak for other species). The fuel economy on long journeys is almost identical but if you get VTEC happy you will guzzle more. I agree with all those who says the perfect VFR would be a 6th with a 5th gen engine... almost. I have also ridden the 4th and 7th gen... the 7th gen is plush and powerful to ride. Same ergonomics in the seat as 5th and 6th... maybe a tad more comfy. The 4th blew me away... but I don't fit physically on a 4th gen very well (195 cm tall or 6'4")... this was with upgraded suspension and perfect carburation... not as snatchy as fuel injected models. The gear whine is softer on the 4th. I was never really a fan of the gear whine. Summing it all up, overall the 5th and 6th are very much much of a muchness... there are subtle differences and in the end it would depend on your preferences in these regards. To me the 6th feels sportier than the 5th, stock... once you start modding that's obviously another story. The braking on the 6th feels better. I believe Honda modified the CBS distribution... actuating one more piston up front when using the front brakes... or something like that, maybe someone can confirm this... like I said, the brakes FEEL better on the 6th gen. In my opinoin the 5th gen lasts longer with less maintenance. I clocked up 86,000 km on my 5th gen and 97,000 on my '03 VTEC (see below). Definitely had to spend more on the 6th gen: CCTs, 2x stators, 2x R/Rs, Clutch baskets, PCV issues (CBS proportional control valves), frying connectors and wiring, remote preload adjuster failure, rear subchassis failure)... the 6th gen definitely had more issues than the 5th. Just ask Honda... they know it to be so. In Spain we didn't get the recalls, so no fix under warranty for us. The optics on the 6th gen are superior in terms of lighting but maybe have something to do with the stator frying when using hi-beams. I recently decided to buy a front-ended '07 and graft my '03's chassis and front end on the '07. The difference in the VTEC transition is noticebale, and the mapping appears to be improved in general.. it doesn't heat up as much (related to the latter comments) and I wish Honda would have used the hysterisis for the VTEC transition from day 1. The hardbags on the 6th gen are aerodynamically an excellent fit... Shall I go on...?? So in answer to Alaska's question: Can we have an honest discussion of the meanimgful differences between the 5th Gen and the 6th Gen? With all due respect and with no offence intended whatsoever: The answer to that question is "Yes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearWhyne Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 So... 4th Gen with 5th Gen motor (with sorted EFI) and 6th Gen Forks and headlights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted December 5, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 5, 2012 Shall I go on...?? So in answer to Alaska's question: Can we have an honest discussion of the meanimgful differences between the 5th Gen and the 6th Gen? With all due respect and with no offence intended whatsoever: The answer to that question is "Yes". Very well put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 That's a Renault. Since you renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries, I doubt it will be imported into the US Wrong, Fries are in fact Belgian Fries, but some stupid soldier in WW2 bought a bag of fried potatoes in Belgium (sadly the south part speaks French) and though he still was in France. So it's French Fries.....but it's wrong. The true name is Belgian Fries.....and trust me, the French have nothing to do with it....it's Belgian Fries!!! I thought they were named French fries because the cut was "frenched" as is french cut fries? http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-frenched-food.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 <snip>...Shall I go on...?? So in answer to Alaska's question: Can we have an honest discussion of the meanimgful differences between the 5th Gen and the 6th Gen? With all due respect and with no offence intended whatsoever: The answer to that question is "Yes". What an excellent reply and post in general! I have read many thread about the difference between the two generations, but this one post seems so much more enlightening to me. My concerns of longevity are definitely allieviated. It will still be a concern as the bike gets older, but the necessity of maintence sounds like a better choice to stay where I am. Maybe a few upgrades to my suspension though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted December 5, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 5, 2012 Auspanol - that's the most impressive analysis of 5th/6th differences I have read. Kudos sir! marriedman - I am never selling my 5th, so youll always have a local VFR geek to ask on stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 mello - you ever consider a 6th gen rear swap? I think it is VeeferCanuck that has that and it is sharp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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