Alaskan Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Seems that the OP made this a "5th Gen vs. 6th Gen thread," didn't he? Although now it seems like the more appropriate question is which of these obsolete relics is better than the other? My point is that a cam chain works just as well as cam gears in the real, day-to-day, world of street motorcycling. If you like your motorcycle to exhibit a gear whine, your preference for the gear noise doesn't make it an objectively "BETTER" motorcycle than one with a chain drive. Back to the OP's point - which is, is the 5th Gen the Best VFR? I ride a 6th Gen, but in many ways I prefer the 5th Gen. Mainly, I like the power delivery of the 5th Gen better, but gear whine or lack thereof isn't a relevant consideration. For me. If you like the whine and think that THAT makes the motorcycle objectively better in an everyday way, well then , I suggest you walk into a dark closet, shut the door, and begin talking to yourself. I am sure you will hear what you need to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Wel, Alaskan, if we are comparing obsolete relics, I think we might as well go back to the '80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Wel, Alaskan, if we are comparing obsolete relics, I think we might as well go back to the '80s. Or the 1960s! When I rode my first motorcycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Polarbear Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm thinking maybe I should find a friend who will let me swap 5-6th gen so I get to experience what a non-vtec is like. Maybe there's something to it?? C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 Seems that the OP made this a "5th Gen vs. 6th Gen thread," didn't he? Although now it seems like the more appropriate question is which of these obsolete relics is better than the other? My point is that a cam chain works just as well as cam gears in the real, day-to-day, world of street motorcycling. If you like your motorcycle to exhibit a gear whine, your preference for the gear noise doesn't make it an objectively "BETTER" motorcycle than one with a chain drive. Back to the OP's point - which is, is the 5th Gen the Best VFR? I ride a 6th Gen, but in many ways I prefer the 5th Gen. Mainly, I like the power delivery of the 5th Gen better, but gear whine or lack thereof isn't a relevant consideration. For me. If you like the whine and think that THAT makes the motorcycle objectively better in an everyday way, well then , I suggest you walk into a dark closet, shut the door, and begin talking to yourself. I am sure you will hear what you need to hear. Actually that whine does make it a better bike for me because it means I can adjust valves in an afternoon with no special tools or expensive lifters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 What produces the whine??? The meshing of teeth spinning in opposite directions have a frequency that produces the whine... chains make their own noise but do not whine because the meshing of teeth and chain are going in the same direction... Why did Honda go to all expense and trouble of gear driven cam gears??? Accuracy of cam timing... cam chains are vague like carburetors... gear driven cams are accurate like fuel injection... Gear driven cams are what you find in high-performance racing motorcycles because they generally perform better due to a superior accuracy of cam timing... gear driven cams are associated with advanced technology, good design, and more expensive and exotic machines, while a motorcycle with cam chains is perceived as lacking these good qualities... Mr.Honda thought enough of the VFR to ante up the more expensive cam gears... but due to cost they were dropped in the 6th Gen... controversial VTEC got the nod instead.... Gear driven cams have driven other teams to protest... Aprilia RSV4 Gear Driven Camshaft Good For 3-5HP After getting the nod to use their gear driven camshaft in World Superbike racing , Aprilia has become a tour de force on the WSBK grid. Aprilia first used the gear driven cams in race environment while at the Miller Motorsports Park round, much to the protest of the other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm thinking maybe I should find a friend who will let me swap 5-6th gen so I get to experience what a non-vtec is like. Maybe there's something to it?? C Come to the Netherlands (in the summer) and I will let you ride RedSlut..... Cos deep inside we all know, NACA's are the best!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 Come to the Netherlands (in the summer) and I will let you ride RedSlut..... Cos deep inside we all know, NACA's are the best!! Both my dad and myself agree. Even though we ride the 5th and 6th gen more, the 4th is still our favorite somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Seems that the OP made this a "5th Gen vs. 6th Gen thread," didn't he? Although now it seems like the more appropriate question is which of these obsolete relics is better than the other? This is exactly what I was hoping to avoid. I know that the 5th & 6th are both great bikes; we all do. I have been having internal conversation about which was better *for me*. My point is that a cam chain works just as well as cam gears in the real, day-to-day, world of street motorcycling. If you like your motorcycle to exhibit a gear whine, your preference for the gear noise doesn't make it an objectively "BETTER" motorcycle than one with a chain drive. When I was first looking for a VFR, I started looking at the 4th gen merely because it was in my price range. Then I got to talking with another VFR owner who owns a 98. I was told that it was no contest, one must own a 5th gen. And a lot of what I read said that the 5th gen's were what the purists defined as the "pinnacle" of a VFR. Now that I own a 5th, it is everything that I was led to believe it would be. A very powerful (IMO) bike that does everything I need. My ideas of personalizing a bike are blasé compared to what people have done on here. And the things that I look at online are more common for the 6th gen for the simple fact that they were made longer. Since parts and accessories for the 6th are more prevalent - be it farkles or replacements - I have begun to wonder if I should have gone that route. Yes, I like the sound of a gear whine, but a better bike make it does not. I ride a 6th Gen, but in many ways I prefer the 5th Gen. Mainly, I like the power delivery of the 5th Gen better, but gear whine or lack thereof isn't a relevant consideration. Power delivery doesn't really matter much to me. I drive a 2006 Scion xB. Everything makes more power than it does; and I am quite okay with that. I had a 92 Nighthawk, so the power of any VFR was going to be a huge increase and thrill. The main thing that I wanted for my next bike after the Nighthawk was good all around bike that was low maintenance. Gear driven cams may be lower maintenance, but the chain cams aren't exactly known for going bad or getting out of spec frequently. Other than that, they are basically identical when it comes to maintenance. Wel, Alaskan, if we are comparing obsolete relics, I think we might as well go back to the '80s. Being old doesn't mean it bad. I love a lot of the 80's bikes! ...honestly I don't know if I am just pining for something I don't have. Sometimes wanting something is better than having it. I am not an agressive riding really. Sure I have hit 100 mph, but that is rare. More often than not I just cruise around if I am not taking trips.What do you guys think, does it sound like a 6th gen would be a better fit for me, or am I just wanting something because I don't have it? This is what I was trying to solve. Is the 6th better FOR ME or am I just wanting what I do not have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 I drive a 2006 Scion xB. Everything makes more power than it does; and I am quite okay with that. The xB ticked me off a while back. Buddy of mine had one, and we got 30mpg in it driving to montreal. My (first) GT was only getting 27. How did a car shaped like a box with 0 aerodynamics do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Bassie Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 I always found that not many people can get the max out of their bike. A friend of mine had a Yamaha R1 with 150HP and I could simply manage to keep up with him on a GSX750F with just 96HP. More power is not the same as faster rider, so is the rest. It all depends on how much you can do with the bike. I'm far from perfect, but I seen people showing off that can't keep up at all I'm riding for 23 years and not too many accidents....last one was an oil slip....it hurts for 6 months.. I don't like ABS or traction-control, no sir.... I learned the hard way....on the beach with 50~80cc bikes....and if you error you hit the sand. People today try to go fast, never learned how to handle a bike the proper way. Youtube is filled with those people...... If you can't handle a bike when using FULL power at a traffic-light or brake FULL in a corner, the please don't try to be an expert. I have braked in a corner, to almost full stop, I shift in corners and then gif full throttle. I also go from 0->100MK/h faster then any other...without lifting the front wheel. Don't judge a bike if you can't use it to it's limits.....however I do not try to put my knees to the ground, that is stupid on public roads. Just my 2 cts in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRJake Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 This is the worst thread I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 This is the worst thread I've ever seen. Well, there you go fella's. Obviously we should stop this thread from going any further. I mean VFRJake has clearly rebutted all points made, refuted all false facts, and detailed everything that makes this a poor thread. Make sure and thank him for taking at least a minute to clearly detail how this is such a horrible thread and we have wasted our precious internet time conversing on a topic that he could have easily ignored. Fey! All of ye whom hath posted hereunto this thread repent now for your frivolous squandering of your time, knowledge and opinion! VFRJake, if you don't like the thread, ignore it. I drive a 2006 Scion xB. Everything makes more power than it does; and I am quite okay with that. The xB ticked me off a while back. Buddy of mine had one, and we got 30mpg in it driving to montreal. My (first) GT was only getting 27. How did a car shaped like a box with 0 aerodynamics do that! My uncle, who owns one as well, and I have said pretty much the same thing. Imagine how much better the MPG would be if it wasn't a brick on wheels! However, I do love the box shape because of the head room and leg room in the back seat. I have several 6"+ friends who sit in it no problem. Love this car. If Toyota made a motorcycle, I would seriously consider it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer wagzhp Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 ... If Toyota made a motorcycle, I would seriously consider it! I may be mistaken, but don't Toyota and Yamaha work together on engine development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer expvet Posted December 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2012 Although gear driven cams are definately more reliable the 6th gen chain driven cams have been pretty much bullet proof also. Not many problems have been reported by owners and the valve specs seem to hold steady past 2 or three service intervals. So as far as cam reliability there is not much of a difference. The VTEC is another matter since it gives them a power band that is not as linear as the 5th gen, but with tweaking via mods or Power Commander remapping it pretty much resolves that issue. The handling on a 6th is much more refined, but a 5th with suspension upgrades gets to pretty much the same level. In the end they are both great bikes that can equal each other when properly modified in their respective weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 The thought that keeps coming to my mind is that parts will be available for far longer on the 6th gens since they were made up until 2009. Even with legendary reliability of Honda's in general, it is something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRJake Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 This is the worst thread I've ever seen. Well, there you go fella's. Obviously we should stop this thread from going any further. I mean VFRJake has clearly rebutted all points made, refuted all false facts, and detailed everything that makes this a poor thread. Make sure and thank him for taking at least a minute to clearly detail how this is such a horrible thread and we have wasted our precious internet time conversing on a topic that he could have easily ignored. Fey! All of ye whom hath posted hereunto this thread repent now for your frivolous squandering of your time, knowledge and opinion! VFRJake, if you don't like the thread, ignore it. Ha! I mostly think it's silly that your first two sentences were about not making this a 5th gen vs 6th gen discussion, and then you end that paragraph by comparing the number of pictures of 5th and 6th gens you have saved and go on to make comparisons of the 5th gen vs. 6th gen. That, and I think I read something along the lines of power delivery not mattering so much amid a discussion of how cool gear whine sounds. Makes me think priorities are so varied that there's no reason to make a point about one bike or the other. And really, when it comes down to it, how can one be a 'better' bike? Different people will call a different bike better on different days for different things. Also, I've ridden neither bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 The thought that keeps coming to my mind is that parts will be available for far longer on the 6th gens since they were made up until 2009. Even with legendary reliability of Honda's in general, it is something to consider. A lot of worry over nothing really, 5th gens can go for over 100k miles, and the main issue that pops up is electrics. And that can be fixed with newer tech parts. A lot of guys here have had or have 80s bikes and seem to finagle whatever parts they need.(Your plastics could be bondo'ed and painted.) May as well link this in - http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/72543-most-miles-on-a-5th-gen/page__st__30 5th gen vs 6th gen discussion,.(For that matter add all gens) And really, when it comes down to it, how can one be a 'better' bike? Different people will call a different bike better on different days for different things. Thats the jest of it all, each bike has its own personality. No one is best and everybody will have a favorite. To each his own. Lets cool this and have a brew and celebrate VFRs! Peace bros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Us 3rd and 4th genners are generally done with that intergenerational bat crap crazy pissing match....... You VFR "newbees" can fight it out while we have our popcorn!..... Beck 95, 4th gen VFR (The Real VFR!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrAustin Posted December 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2012 This thread is very valuable because I am laughing my ass off reading it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 ^What vfrAustin said. I was actually going to make some comment about "What the weirdo from the weird part of TX said" until I saw "Flemmington, NJ" But in all seriousness about my "from the 80's" comment, while I love my '85 Kawi, if I had to pick a bike to live with day in, day out, it would be something modern with fuel injection and a reliable source of parts. To me, both my current bikes, and most anything from the mid-'90s and onward would work. Good brakes, suspension, bolts not made from Swiss cheese, and a magic button that starts the engine without the need for anything more than a manual enrichment lever. Heck, some magic buttons don't even need that, just thumb it and go! I also said that part of the reason I went with the '99 was that it was the right price at the right time, but a part of the "emotional" decision is that I have a completely baseless avoidance of V-TEC. Can't say I've really heard anything worse than some people having problems with throttle positioning/fuel delivery, but then I hear that about a lot of bikes with fuel injection. The V-TEC on the 6th gens sure seems to be on par with the 5th gen as far as durability/maintenance goes. Bear in mind this is coming from a lustful Ducati owner who has put off riding his Ducati for some months due to laziness in adjusting his ST3's valves that tend to develop gaps you could measure with a Deluxe Extra Delicious Super Sized Bacon Cheezeburger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 FWIW, I prayed before I bought mine that God would give me the best bike for me and, next thing I know, I found a 4yr old y2k with 20k miles. I definitely believe He gave me the best, but I can agree with most of the 6th gen stuff. Except I like the front fairing better on the 5th gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 It must be wintertime again...... Everyone has PMS Parked Motorcycle Syndrome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRJake Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 It must be wintertime again...... Everyone has PMS Parked Motorcycle Syndrome Haha! This is a definite possibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 Also, I've ridden neither bike. OK, so not only are you an eloquent writer as proven by your first post, but you are also ignorant of the 2 bikes that is the focus of this thread as well? Why would you even comment in this thread if not to provoke a irritable reply from me? It must be wintertime again...... Everyone has PMS Parked Motorcycle Syndrome Nope. Well, not yet. I just have no tolerance for ill mannered kids playing on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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