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1998 to 2000 conversion


bmart
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Left Staintune, which I love, on the '98. Added an inexpensive (but very nice) Delkevic slip on to the '00. Both seem to work perfectly. Not too loud. I'd try the swap!

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  • 2 months later...
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Can folks familiar with the 2000 suspension convey the stock valving, front and back? The springs are the right weight, but I haven't had anything valved yet. It feels...not great. 🙂

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According to an good online source the stock valving should be as follows:

 

Front forks

HMAS Compression valve

12 x .1
17 x .1
17 x .1
16 x .1
16 x .1
8 x .2 clamp
11.5 x .4 spacer

 

HMAS Rebound valve

17 x .1
16 x .1
15 x.1
8 x .2 clamp
11.5 x .4 spacer

 

My personal opinion is that the stock valve bodies are a poor starting point for mods as they have restrictive ports, so the shim selection has less of an effect than on say Gold Valves. I run a stiffer compression valve set up on GVs and yet the ride is much better on sharp hits, because the shims can deflect and allow faster flow though the bigger ports. 

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I surely feel the hits on both ends now...

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Unless the springs have been changed, I can’t believe they’re of the correct rate. Both ends are massively undersprung, stock. 

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Rear shock is stock. The spring rate is close enough, but the valving feels like crap. 

 

Front springs are .90 kg/mm but I didn't touch valving yet. Again, spring rate is perfect but valving feels terrible. 

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For reference, I’m on 1.05kg springs in the front and a 1300lb spring in the rear. The front has Traxxion Dynamics Axxion valves (simple setup) and the rear is a Penske 8983. Martin Musil, at Traxxion, has done all my stuff, the last 15yrs. The bike rides amazing. 

I don’t believe you’ll ever get the stock stuff to feel great. All my bikes have gotten Axxion valves or AK-20 cartridges and some variant of Penske. Once I rode decent stuff, I’ve never bought a bike without the thought of sending off the forks and buying a shock. The investment is so worth it.
 

You can get into a custom-built Wilber’s fairly inexpensively and probably the best value going. There’s one on FB at £500, right now. For the front, just send them off. A good shop will put the tubes in a lathe, check runout/straighten, and polish them. Either Race Tech or Traxxion valves will be good. If the shop has a solid database, the valving should come back perfect. Develop a relationship with a suspension guy and you’ll always have someone who’ll know how you like a bike and set it up accordingly. 
 

 

A3805E01-15A8-4832-BF5C-C94DF8BD1F5E.png

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Most of the other bikes I have have suspension customzed for me. I'm just being frugal...or failing at being frugal. 

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ducnut, a 1300 lb. spring?  You sure?  Must ride like a rock..... a 200 lb. guy only needs an 850, or 900 at the most....... sometimes there's a number stamped on the spring, and it can be decoded, spring rate is usually the last few digits........

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That is uper strong. I'm 185# w/full gear and am 850-950# spring, depending on the bike. 

 

(Bad) spec for me on the CB-1 is 1300#, but they didn't consider the linkage when they created the list. 

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1 hour ago, raYzerman said:

ducnut, a 1300 lb. spring?  You sure?  Must ride like a rock..... a 200 lb. guy only needs an 850, or 900 at the most....... sometimes there's a number stamped on the spring, and it can be decoded, spring rate is usually the last few digits........


Yep. The heaviest Hyperco that’d fit the shock AND swingarm space. From what Eric Trinkley (Penske tech) told me, the VFR’s linkage ratio requires a heavier spring than one would normally think. And, the bike rides amazing. I have a buddy with a stock VFR, who spent a whole day on it, because he loves it so much. That day, I rode my SV, which is also outfitted with Martin and Eric’s work. Likewise, it’s fantastic to ride, though the lighter weight of the bike means it’s not quite as plush as the VFR. 
 

*Disregard the invoice’s model of shock, as it’s mounted on an 8983. And, it was built to a 6th Gen’s length, because I wanted to start with a longer shock body, to raise the rearend. 
 

 

60A1A170-A351-4B4F-84DE-667411E5905D.jpeg

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That is just nuts. That is uber strong. I'm 185# w/full gear and am 850-950# spring, depending on the bike. I've never even heard of anyone going near that high on any bike, regardless of their weight. But if you like it! What kind of sag numbers do you get from it?

 

I did finally get around to flushing the 22 year old brake and clutch fluid over the last 24 hours. The stuff that came out wasn't really that bad. Still, both systems feel and work better now. I also threw in a not so free oil change. I thought it was still in there from the Honda build, but I spotted the Fram filter. Mobil 1 4T went in and it surely feel and shifts much better. 

 

 

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20-25mm F&R, depending on stiction. I did a quick check, when newly assembled, but, I’ve not bothered to check it since. Might be a bit more, now. 

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OK lesson learned..... checked other sources for the specific bike application.... spring rates are generally higher for VFR's, depending on your weight... 1000-1300 lbs/in.  Carry on....  🤐  😁

 

 

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Now you're making me do actual work. Harumph... Going through old notes, and my weight hasn't changed:

 

CB-1: 912# rear spring, .9kg fork springs (same as multiple prior ones)

98 VFR: 900# rear spring, .9kg fork springs (Same as prior '99)

00 VFR: 857# stock spring, .9kg fork springs

Track bike 03 R6 #1: 575# rear spring, .925kg fork springs (perfect for me)

Track bike 03 R6 #2: 600# rear spring, .900kg fork springs (It is fine, but was set up on its tail and now is set up on its nose)

Prior R6 was identical to #1. Prior to that was 550#, .925kg.

07 GSXR750 track bike:  ~535# rear spring, .966kg fork springs

93 FJ: 975# rear spring, 1.05 fork springs

VTR250 had .830 fork springs. 

 

I never looked back at one time, but the story seems pretty much the same. Slightly lighter springs up front for lighter bikes. Changing rates in back for varying mechanics/action. 

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In a rare move...I lightly cleaned it after the brake fluid flush and oil change. 

 

91924789_20220320_1650371.thumb.jpg.96982c25fa9c6fd260bb18ac2222ab5d.jpg

 

954943227_20220320_1650251.thumb.jpg.fde7960572c3db257db29eb62e94f011.jpg

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  • 1 month later...
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Back to bars. I just measured the stock height (center of bar 3.25" above top of triple) against the Helibars which claim a 1 1/4" additional rise (but actually measure 4", so .75" more rise). That is total BS and explains why I notice a difference, but that they aren't all day comfy by any stretch. Narrowed it down to a few options, but can't find comparison measurements from stock. 

 

https://www.helibars.com/products/helibars-handlebar-risers-for-honda-vfr800-vfr800-vtec.html

To me, $360 has always sounded like about twice or more what they're worth. I'd get another set used if I could find one.

 

https://www.convertibars.com/product-p/honda-vfr-800-i-00-01.htm

I checked a set of these on a VFR in person yesterday, but they felt way off. I'd surely hace to play with the angle. Looks like 1" ride from stock without getting lines. Still, $340, which seems insanely high to me. 

 

https://www.apexmfg.com/all-products/apex-clip-ons/apex-3-riser-clip-on-set

I've been trying to buy footpegs from these guys for many years, so I'm not even sure if they sell anything listed on their site. And, 3" looks like the size, not the optional rise from stock, so useless unless the sell a taller vertical shaft as an option. They're cheaper at $263!

 

https://woodcraft-cfm.com/collections/clipon-risers also makes some, but max 3" rise, so same as stock. 

 

A lister has a stock screen on the way to me to replace the bubble I have on the red '98. The stock one seems like a lot less wind on the neck muscles!

 

A local guy sold a shock out from under me and didn't tell me until I got to his house to pick it up yesterday. People... so, I'm still hunting for a shock for the yellow '00.  

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What a twat 🤬

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I did bump into this, which I hadn't seen before. 

 

I think that rising only would just make the levers even higher than stock. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284690254630

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1 hour ago, Skids said:

What a twat 🤬

I think he's dealing with some other big stuff, but I would have liked to have those two hours for something useful...

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16 hours ago, bmart said:

A local guy sold a shock out from under me and didn't tell me until I got to his house to pick it up yesterday. People... so, I'm still hunting for a shock for the yellow '00.  

 

I have a stock shock that is in serviceable condition - pulled at 26k. Let me know if you are interested, I will snap some pics. 

 

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Thanks again. It has a good stock shock, I want a Penske/Ohlins, etc. 

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8 hours ago, bmart said:

Thanks again. It has a good stock shock, I want a Penske/Ohlins, etc. 

Right on, I missed that you had said it earlier in the thread. Good luck!

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On the topic of bars, I went with Apex on my RZ350 when I put R6 forks on it. They were okay but I had issues with their tolerances on a number of details. A bit later I ordered some replacement bars and they were not the same as the first ones I bought. I ended up asking for a refund and returned the parts as agreed, but I had to chase them forever for the money. They weren't terrible but the overall experience put me off. I ordered Convertibars instead and wouldn't hesitate to buy those first if I changed bars on the VFR. 

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