Member Contributer Terry Posted April 6, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 6, 2023 1 hour ago, bmart said: Bitubo is in my hands. It looks nice. Started the swap tonight and have questions. I do not recall my 1998 being this difficult. Removed top shock nut, lower link, and "triangle" but this shock won't get by the collector. Took off the wheel and can to make more room to raise/lower swingarm. Still, it will not clear to get out. Am I missing something? Surely this has been completed by others in less than a month... I thought that it would be together by now! 😭 Its been a few years since I did a shock swap on mine (stock out and DMR modified CBR954 shock installed) and I went down the same path as you with the linkages removed and the wheel off so I could easily raise and lower the swingarm to suit. Keep at it as there is a magic combination of swingarm angle that will allow the shock to slip through. If your Bitubo has a remote reservoir, I would feed that through and up before the shock body. I would wrap the new shock spring in masking take to prevent scratching the spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 7, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 Thanks Terry. I finally remembered that in addition to removing the top nut, you really have to loosen the mount to the shock top also. It should move, but it never does. Got Bitubo in, but now linkage won't go back together. 4 hours in and I give up until another day. Just three bolts, but they won't align and go in. Plate are properly oriented, but the bolts just keep pushing the bearing sleeves out or won't go in all of the way if they don't push the sleeves out. This was 60 minutes of work... Argh! At least everything is broken in and scratched now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 7, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 Soliciting advice. More than 6 hours in to my under 60 minute job and no luck yet. The third bolt just won't pass the second plate. Jacking the swingarm up moves it further out of alignment and the swingarm won't go down any more. I've tried putting the bolts in in varying order without luck. I've tried using the nuts of the ones that went in to old it all together, tight and loose, but no luck. I've had a prybar under the botton shock mount to try to force it up by compressing the spring, but there's no leverage to be had in that position. And it is does go in, it will never come out again. Something isn't right. I seem to remember when mounting the shock in the red VFR that I had to raise the swingarm to get the shock in. This is the opposite problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 7, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 Maybe taking the top shock mount bolt out will give you the movement to assemble the linkage, and then the shock might be able to be manipulated to get the upper mount bolt back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 7, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 Also, is the shock ride height adjustable? Did you check the overall length compared to stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 7, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 My worry about having to do the upper mount last is that there's no way to get up in there. I can reach the bottom, at least, but does it seem right that there will be no way to get it back out again? Shock is 330mm, just like the Penske in uglyred, so nowhere near the "longest" setting on the shock or what is common for the 5th gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 7, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 Hmmm. Every bike can be a little different. Maybe try taking one turn out of the ride height. That is the lower shock eyelet, right? And the swingarm won't extend any further? Then the shock is too long at it's current ride height setting for that particular bike. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 7, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 From what I can find, stock length is 317mm? 330 is a pretty good jump in length on a rising rate linkage. I'm not totally surprised that it might be (just barely) out of the range that would still fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 7, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 Stock is 325. 333 is still fine, but I run 330, same as in the Penske, and same as the stocker with the shims...that I just took out of the same hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 7, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, bmart said: Stock is 325. 333 is still fine, but I run 330, same as in the Penske, and same as the stocker with the shims...that I just took out of the same hole. Gotcha. Weird then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 7, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2023 Has the exhaust been touched down before (and shifted) and is preventing the suspension form extending more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 8, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2023 Don't think so. It took a lot of work. I'll post the details if anyone cares. Regardless, it is in and needs to be set up cold, then hot...then hopefully never removed again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 8, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2023 1 minute ago, bmart said: It took a lot of work. I'll post the details if anyone cares. I'm interested. Never know when I might need to know some trick or quirk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 8, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2023 I'll try to remember some of the gory details. Stock shock removal wasn't bad. I took off the Delkevic can, but left the midpipe (not the smartest, but it worked) and the rear wheel. I had ~5mm of shims between the top clevis and the frame to get to my preferred 330mm shock lengh (eye to eye, 5mm more than stock). I assumed that the top pivot would...pivot. It would not. I recommend loosening the nut/bolt holding the top of the stock shock to the clevis first. If you do that, the rest will fall out with plenty of room. Bitubo was set to stock length, so I adjusted it 5mm longer on the bench to make my life easier (read that as much harder). It should fit right in where the 330mm shock just came out...right? Just like the 330mm long shock in the red VFR, right? As my New England buddies would put it. Yaaaa...nooo. Bitubo suggests taking off the exhaust shield on the right side to route the canister over the large tube, I went behind it. There is no way this is anywhere hear the exhaust, any moving parts, or the metal shield. We'll see who is right on this one later! The rear bodywork must be removed also in order to get to the right passenger pegs which is where the canister braket is mounted. Do do this, of course, I had to remove the luggage rack. This is when I realized that the luggage rack bracket is also mounted to the right passenger peg bracket. Once I got all of the removal sorted and the new shock length set, I fed the canister up through the hole, ensured my routing was adequate, and had the tools and bolts ready...I fed the shock in and bolted it from the top. Keep in mind that I'm doing this between other bikes and a bunch of trays with seeds/seedlings that we're trying to grow. I can get two bolts in with the triangle plates, but not three. Any two, but never three. A lot of things were tried and in the end I was stuck with shortening the installed shock 3mm to get the last bolt in. Not a big deal, but now I had to lengthen the shock 3mm to get back to 330mm. Easy, right? Yaaa...nooo. Apparently the factory did not tighten the top lock nut enough, so when I turned the height adjustment, the whole shock would spin, risking kinking the canister hose/fitting. A lot of creative work to keep from doing a full uninstall...as the knucklehead mechanic (looks exactly like me) reassembled everything else (tank, bodywork luggage, etc.) to "save time" when I finished on day two of a 60 minutes job. It is now set to 330mm and I can't wait to try it. As it came from my pasta making people overseas, it feels a lot different than the Penske. I can't believe that it is as good or better, yet. If I get to ride it this week, I'll take some measurements cold before, and warm after, and get it in the ballpark. The Bitubo manual suggestions in this area aren't very good, so I'm on my own with settings. If I were to do it again: I would not adjust the shock length until it was installed, and I would notice that I could use the tool supplied instead of trying to fight with the 6 sided nut I would double check that the top lock nut on the shock was TIGHT I would put a jack under the small section of the swingarm just in front of the rear caliper instead of being lazy and lifting it over and over with one of my own appendages (the jack is 20' away, but there are 4 bikes, a car, a lift, and some other things in the way) I would take off everything that I needed to at the start and not put it back until the shock install was complete I would buy/borrow the proper wrenches for the lock nuts on the shock as reaching these when installed really bites with big straight tools (never thought I'd type those words) I would beg for a not red spring. Most will love the look, but I much prefer black! I'm open to all tom mockery and helpful suggestions. Adding some pics: 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 8, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2023 I'm glad you got it in! Looks like a nice shock, that's for sure. If the swingarm wouldn't move any more to allow you to install the shock at 330mm, I'm not sure how you were able to put 3mm back into the length after installing it. Are you sure your weren't just compressing the shock 3mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 9, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2023 I was... and no one understands why, including the reseller...or my other VFR. 330 is not long by any means in this bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 9, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2023 Well, something is different on that bike preventing the swingarm from extending like your other one, and other VFRs it sounds like. So you are probably at about 328 after taking all available slack, with a couple mm more preload on the shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 9, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2023 Hoping to get in a few miles this week so I can set sag warm. The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 9, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2023 Look forward to hearing the report on that shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Bren Posted April 9, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2023 I'm interested in what you think about it too. Price wise, was it comparable to a Penske or Öhlins or other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 9, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2023 Considerably cheaper if you can find a deal from a reseller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 9, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2023 "But we're not finished yet! Tell him what he's won!" So, I go out to set sag today, turn the spanner, and apparently the top, that should not move (locked from the factory), moved. It broke the hydraulic hose. Oil everywhere. Stay tuned. I've asked for a new one under warranty. This one seems lemon-esque. I've never had these problems with a shock before... Really, you just can't have nice things anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 10, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 This is a silly question, but is there any reason that a 98/99 shock can be longer than a 00/01 shock? Silly #2, is there anything that would be in the way of allowing the swingarm to lower enough to accomodate this 330mm shock? My alternate option is to lower the front a bit to make up for the variance. Sending the shock back this week for repair, hopefully under warranty...at 0 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 10, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 They are different part numbers, but that could be something like dampening changes. The linkage parts are the same. What does your stock shock actually measure at? I thought you did that already. I just can't think of anything else being different to not allow the same swingarm travel between the two. Unless there is something different and they changed the shock length as well. Honda does like to change a bunch of little shit on seemingly similar models though. Seen it many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 10, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 With the shock out let the swingarm hit whatever it is it wants to hit and try and chase the sound (or feel). Maybe the exhaust from 99 to 00 has a change that the swingarm wants to hit earlier, but isn't an issue with a stock length shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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