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1998 to 2000 conversion


bmart
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11 hours ago, bmart said:

For folks who have bought from Jack, did you ge the universal 2 way or 4 way mounting bracket for the 5th gen? Thanks!

 

Bought and installed an 847 super kit from Jack, no bracket used. Mounted the 847 on the subframe, some drilling required.

 

 

SFDownhill wrote a great how-to on the other site

https://vfrworld.com/threads/photos-of-no-drama-r-r-from-roadstercycle-com.54584/

 

good luck

 

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Speaking of Sfdownhill, I think I'll have a seat on the way from him soon. And that's good news as this stock one is pretty terrible. 

 

I put the yellow '00 on the road on Friday and went for a spin today against doctor's orders. I just can't wait until March or April!

 

The two teeth larger rear sprocket made a big difference, but I forgot to raise the rear using the eccentric when I installed it. 

 

The unusual fork spring feeling was gone after I reinstalled the caps and got a few miles on it. Front sag is a little snug at 31mm, as is the back at 25mm, but I'm going to ride it a bit to see if everything loosens a bit. The adjustments were made with the bike cold and me out of my gear.

 

A few quick shots of Plexus made it look great the other night, adjusting the shifter so it wasn't aimed at the sky was a big improvement in rideability.

 

The Givi rack looks great and UPS covered all of the damage. I repaired it and bought new (inferior) Givi nubbins. I recommend using E6000 on them if you use them, or just get rubber bumpers from the local store. My originals have a giant notch to lock them in but these new ones have been through some cost savings efforts...

 

The intake sound with the snorkles out and the K&N installed sounds just like the '98, but that stock can is way too quiet. Ordering the fix on Friday

 

It is getting there and should be ready for regular duty after a few more items are discovered (risers, as I can't get the levers low enough to be comfortable with the stock handlebars) / installed.

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Speaking of Sfdownhill, I think I'll have a seat on the way from him soon. And that's good news as this stock one is pretty terrible. 

 

I put the yellow '00 on the road on Friday and went for a spin today against doctor's orders. I just can't wait until March or April!

 

The two teeth larger rear sprocket made a big difference, but I forgot to raise the rear using the eccentric when I installed it. 

 

The unusual fork spring feeling was gone after I reinstalled the caps and got a few miles on it. Front sag is a little snug at 31mm, as is the back at 25mm, but I'm going to ride it a bit to see if everything loosens a bit. The adjustments were made with the bike cold and me out of my gear.

 

A few quick shots of Plexus made it look great the other night, adjusting the shifter so it wasn't aimed at the sky was a big improvement in rideability.

 

The Givi rack looks great and UPS covered all of the damage. I repaired it and bought new (inferior) Givi nubbins. I recommend using E6000 on them if you use them, or just get rubber bumpers from the local store. My originals have a giant notch to lock them in but these new ones have been through some cost savings efforts...

 

The intake sound with the snorkles out and the K&N installed sounds just like the '98, but that stock can is way too quiet. Ordering the fix on Friday

 

It is getting there and should be ready for regular duty after a few more items are discovered (risers, as I can't get the levers low enough to be comfortable with the stock handlebars) / installed.

 

Adding this pic because I'm a dork...

 

 

20211121_150818.jpg

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SH847 should be here this week. Delkevic came today. It weighs so much less than the stocker and looks superb on there. Hoping to test it later this week. 

 

20211201_164804.thumb.jpg.9a7b354584d37e7297ccd73eb0e63389.jpg

 

20211201_175601.thumb.jpg.d6b7ae25e062136d767a49e841f3fc7f.jpg

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You tell me! Seems milder than I expected, which will be fine. Only 13"!

 

 

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Ha...I have dual 8" Delkevics, they sound really good. But I had to go with the "quieter" baffles.  With the stock baffle and catless VFRD header it was waaaaay too loud.  I was really looking at whether I could take two 13" Delkevics and have them cut down to 10" or something 😕

 

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Still no luck finding Helibars or Genmar risers for VFR00. Genmar would be better financially, but the Helibars would let me tilt the levers down a bit more, which is preferred. 

 

Picked up a bag of 1/16" u-shaped washers/spacers for auto body spacing, as another post suggested. I'll use those on the stock shock mount. Planning to use 3 shims to get close enough.

 

0.188"=3/16"=4.78 mm

0.250”=4/16”=6.35 mm

 

If I ever bump into a smoking deal on a quality aftermarket shock, I'll replace it. Not long ago they were ~$600, now they're $1200+. 

 

I'll do that job when I wire the double USB power source for the phone/GPS w/voltmeter, on the way from eBay. RAM mounts came in this week and will get done then also. I have the parts for the Passport and will wire/mount that on the front master just like VFR98. And the SH847 kit will go on then once I figure out the plug sourcing, which is so far, confusing. 

 

I noticed that this bike has the stock windscreen and VFR98 has a double bubble looking one. I haven't spend enough time to notice any big difference yet, other than it isn't compeltely transparent/clear like the aftermarket one.

 

Looking forward to more miles before track season starts back up!

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My bike came with Convertibars.  Not really sure I like them, but they do get you more upright.  There's just barely any room between the tank and nose fairing for you to change the handlebar position, so the convertibars have to be angled awkwardly for my hands.  Also, I can't have the clutch lever angled far enough down, so my wrist is in extension when operating the clutch which fatigues my wrist quickly.  It seems like every aftermarket handlebar I've looked at would interfere with the fairing and/or tank, or would need extended throttle cables.

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On 12/9/2021 at 8:40 AM, raYzerman said:

If you want more adjustability, try Convertibars.... I was lucky enough to find a used set... pretty rare they come up for sale.

 

https://www.convertibars.com/Default.asp

ooh... do share some photos with the class

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Still waiting for a few things, but it is coming together. 

 

Wired voltmeter w/2 USB ports. This will let me power the phone/GPS just like on the other bikes. Also added the RAM mount just like the other VFR. 

 

Wired the radar detector, but waiting for a cheap used unit and solderable 1/8" jack to arrive from fleabay later this week. 

 

Wired and (hillbilly) mounted the SH847. I'm not sure I want to drill two large holes in teh sides of the subframe yet. I'll probably just make a cheap plate. Cable ties for placement and one safety wire...for safety. lol

 

Waiting on yellow striped used seat (yay!). 

 

Rode UGLYRED the other day. Gods, that bike is nice to ride! The money I paid to have Thermosman do the forks was so worth it. 

 

Hoping to get out on the yellow bike on Christmas while it is still warm here. Can't wait to see how the shimmed shock feels. 

 

2063509916_20211216_155719sm.thumb.jpg.c757b37281006281b4bb0fccd6e9161b.jpg

 

20211216_201607.thumb.jpg.5c67d0f96ec6fa98313e7d67f9d1356b.jpg

 

20211219_174908.thumb.jpg.cdb8a0a021c83039b04540014afd53de.jpg

 

20211219_190229.thumb.jpg.d768122e0c215c36afae828ce081f753.jpg

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Done (for now)!

 

Thanks all for the great info and to SF for the matching seat. You're like Lance(r) the not completely forgotten reindeer. 🙂

 

20211224_175425.thumb.jpg.35a1949c5e481c2c780eb2a22507df66.jpg

 

IMG_5260.thumb.jpg.485688067664dc0bb79961723138872d.jpg

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Winner winner, chicken dinner...so far (~260 miles). All of the mods have worked out well.

 

The forks aren't too bad with just the spring change and no valving mod.

 

The shimmed rear shock is adequate with preload on 3 (stock is 2) and rebound damping 1 1/8" turn out. Compressions damping is too stiff, but there's no adjustment, so it stays as is!

 

Regulator rectifier update is 14.3-14.4 at RPM and 12.6-12.7 at idle. Radar and GPS rockin'. 

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A few things to consider:

 

Rear shock

 

My ideal shock spring rate is ~900 lbs (I'm ~180-185 lbs in full gear). The stock shock is 857 lbs. For me, it is close enough unless I bump into a cheap aftermarket shock. The '98 has a Penske with 900 lb spring on it and there's a definite difference. Damping is a whole different story. The stock shock has no compression damping adjutment and it is set with too much damping. I'm just riding around it. the rebound damping is minimal adjustability, but at the stock 1 1/8 turns out from full in, it is adequate. The Penske on the '98 is miles better. Shimming it nearly 5mm also made a large, positive difference. Note that each setting has a purpose. You aren't going to solve a sage setting with damping, for instance. And...I'm cheap. Some folks seem to like progressive springs, and even talk about matching those front an rear. Every suspension person worth their salt that I have ever talked to says no, and after riding on both types, I agree. Straight rate spring are the proper choice. 

 

Front forks

 

My ideal fork spring rate is .9 and stock is .74. It is a huge difference and I put in the proper straight rate springs. The difference is night and day. Without fork internal modifications, there is no great way to modify damping for compression or rebound. Some folks change oil weight or add parts like emulators. They can change the feeling and performance, but if you have the funds, I highly recommend having someone like Thermosman properly upgrade the forks. The '98 had this done and I ride it like I ride my track bike without any issue. As my "b" VFR, I'm content with just the spring upgrade so far. We'll see if I feel the same once spring (pun intended) arrives and the warmer weather allows a faster pace. 

 

You'll want to consider geometry, ergonimics (for you), ground clearance as well as the specific functions of each part of the suspension (including tire and PSI choices). 

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Some interesting numbers, on spring rates. I’m running 1.05kg with Axxion valves in the front and a 1300# spring on a Penske 8983 in the rear and the bike is fantastic. 

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May I ask your weight with or without gear? Guesing 210 w/gear.

 

"Advice" in this area varies widely, and due to varying shock linkage and design...as well as personal preference, numbers vary widely as well!

 

https://www.penskeshocks.com/hubfs/Resources/Tech Sheets/PENSKE-SPRING-APPLICATION-CHART.pdf

...tells me 1100 lbs for my weight, but that would completely suck for me. 

 

That site and most others also call for 1200 lbs on my CB-1...which I have tried and it was unrideable. I run a 912 on there now and 950 was too harsh. 1300 didn't even move from no weight to when I sat on the bike. 

 

Same site for my R6 track bikes is 600 lbs. I run 575 lbs. 

 

Honestly, I think that many of these places never tested most of the options or never went back and updated their "list."

 

https://racetech.com/ChooseVehicle.aspx is another good place to start, but same deal. If you want it right, you're going to have to want to go through some trial and error. 

 

For me for the VFR, they suggest .9 front (yay!) and 18.8 kg/mm which is about 1050 lbs. 

 

(To convert lb/in to kg/mm you multiply by 0.0179 and to convert kg/mm to lb/in you divide by 0.0179.)
 

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Those rear shock spring rates recommended by Penske and RaceTech are plain crazy, way too harsh.  For a 200 lb rider, shouldn't be more than 900.

RaceTech gave me a shock for my FJR, a heavier bike, with an 1100 lb. spring, rode like a truck..... had it resprung to 850 and it was perfect.

Their fork spring rates are good at .9-1.0, yes, straight rates only up front.....

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So much of this is rider preference. We're always working around conditions because they're always changing from weather, temps, fuel load, tire wear, and so much more. I am a rider who is very light on controls so my bike feels loose to friends who like their "welded" feeling. I find riding their bikes a jarring experience with little room for error. 

 

The CB-1 is the biggest joke of them all, due to the unusual shock linkage configuration. I've owned about 7 of them and suspension guys kept telling me I need a stiffer spring. I started at the recommended 1300 and worked my way back down to where I started!

 

I love this pic not only because it is a super shot of me stalking my friend at my favorite track (getting on the gas through the last turn to get him on the brakes at the end of the straight!), but because we swapped bikes and he didn't get a lap in. He said my bike was unridable. I rode his a few laps, but swore he had both ends welded to the frame. And yet...look at us, doing nearly exactly the same things, same lap times, same body position, etc. What a great sport we have!

 

JON_3295.thumb.JPG.b128ebb2d8263b149790df71b06574e2.JPG

 

 

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1 hour ago, raYzerman said:

Those rear shock spring rates recommended by Penske and RaceTech are plain crazy, way too harsh.  For a 200 lb rider, shouldn't be more than 900.

RaceTech gave me a shock for my FJR, a heavier bike, with an 1100 lb. spring, rode like a truck..... had it resprung to 850 and it was perfect.

Their fork spring rates are good at .9-1.0, yes, straight rates only up front.....


Martin Musil, at Traxxion Dynamics, has been my go-to suspension tech, the last 15yrs. Eric Trinkley, at Penske, has built five shocks for me, over roughly the same time period. My bikes have always been perfect, regardless of any charts. 

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Lurked along just now.  I also have a 98 & a y2K.  I was gonna swap the Staintune form the 98 for the 2 Brothers Racing on the y2K.  Wanted to hear the Staintune through the Cat.  it's a little harsh for me on the 98.
You opted for a different Can.  Howcum?
Nice report / thread BTW.

 

cheers!

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