Member Contributer bmart Posted April 10, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Captain 80s said: They are different part numbers, but that could be something like dampening changes. The linkage parts are the same. What does your stock shock actually measure at? I thought you did that already. I just can't think of anything else being different to not allow the same swingarm travel between the two. Unless there is something different and they changed the shock length as well. Honda does like to change a bunch of little shit on seemingly similar models though. Seen it many times. You're right, Cap'n. The stock shock I removed is 325 plus the 5 mm of shims I added between the frame and the clevis at the top. 330 out and 330 back in seems easy, right? I'll be crawling under there while the shock is being repaired. Hoping someone who set up a 00/01 can tell me how 330mm went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 10, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 Measuring eye to eye exactly ideally requires a height gage. With a set of good calipers, what does your shim stack actually measure at? It could be that you were really around 328-329 the whole time. One of your install pictures, the lower bolt looks pretty damn close to going thru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 10, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 The stock and Bitubo were both 325. Stock "length" was increased wish external shims on the mount. Bitubo was increased with adjustable bottom mount; 5 turns, 5mm. I had to shorten it 3mm to get the bolt in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 10, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 Your swingarm hits something and stops. Unless you find something that can be manipulated to allow the swingarm to extend further, that is what you get. That is the max shock length, regardless of what number that is. But it sure sounds like it was less than 330 before too. Maybe you were able to force shims in and compress the shock a little with it on the center stand, like you did with the length adjustment on the Bitubo. You didn't mention what type of shims and how they were installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 10, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 What did you use to verify the length of the Bitubo as delivered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 10, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 Just a ruler to verify...and the reseller. They always set to stock length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 10, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 Got it. Ruler works of course, but could be a +/- 1mm (or more) on that method. Also, think you learned to never trust a reseller to verify everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 10, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 I'm learning to trust no one...which I don't like the feeling of very much. Humans can be pretty crappy. It got shipped back to be fixed earlier today. We'll see how it goes. Unless it needs Italian parts, I hope to have it back in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted April 10, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2023 Humans can also be pretty cool and still make mistakes. But I hear ya. Humans haven't been impressing me lately either in general. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted May 4, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 4, 2023 Hey all. I didn't see a note about radiator guards on here so I thought I'd just post on my bike thread. Do folks use model specific stuff, ro just some kind of mesh cable tied on like most use at track days? After another friend got a hole in his recently, I thought I'd put them on all of the bikes...so making them out of one piece of mesh would likely be a lot cheaper! Any info would be really helpful. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted May 20, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 20, 2023 I know. I know. I know. 9+ years and just shy of 25k miles with a used (add 6k miles from '99) Electrosport R/R and VFRness w/extra ground strap and what looked okay 100 miles ago looked like this today. So, I pulled it apart as one side of the connector must have completely melted and gone flying on my ride. Cutting off and still corroded. Keep cutting 1"-2" at a time and checking. Quite a few inches in, I get this. I think I'm good there. I'll never understand why they used these skinny 14 ga wires! The other side to the R/R looks like 12 ga. but I'm not sure if my eyes are clear...one copper and two silver wires? What do you see? Guessing that I have to cut those back also, at least and inch, to ensure I'm "clean" before I do what I'm told, and solder them in. I went through all of my bits of wire and don't have any 12 ga pieces long enough. Bike showed 13.2 VDC off, 12.8 VDC at idle, and 14.8 VDC at RPM and was still running great. Good thing that I monitor voltage "live." Stator while bike was hot showed no two legs connected to each other or to ground, .3 ohms between any two choices, and ~52 VAC between any two legs at 4k RPM. It doesn't appear that the stator or R/R are damaged. Open to great ideas. I'm riding in the mountains tomorrow...apparently on the 400 now. That won't be uncomfortable at all... Thank you for your input! Hoping to get this sorted Monday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted May 21, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted May 21, 2023 Some good example wire and connector burn up photos.... - If you have to splice in wire, dont use anything from the local auto parts store... I use marine grade wire for the fixes.... (if its good for a boat, its definately good for a motorcycle.... https://www.delcity.net/store/Marine-Grade-Tinned-Wire/p_365 - I am not going down the road of solder vs linemans splice.... I've done both.. YRMV - IF a connector is a gotta have, go with a Metripack 630 connector, ditch the OEM style... http://www.cycleterminal.com/metri-pack.html Ultimately, part of the success is a good workmanlike craftmanship on the installation. I've seen photos of the good parts/equipment to use, but the shitty work doomed the install and was another toasted mess... As a btw... a good crimp tool for connectors is a must.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted May 21, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 21, 2023 Is there any value is getting rid of as much 14 ga as possible and replace that with 12 ga? Any idea why one of the R/R wires is copper while the other two are silver? I do have a Rick's MOSFET R/R in the trunk where it has been for a long time as a spare, but with the measurements I've taken, the Stator and R/R appear okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted May 21, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted May 21, 2023 7 hours ago, bmart said: Is there any value is getting rid of as much 14 ga as possible and replace that with 12 ga? Any idea why one of the R/R wires is copper while the other two are silver? I do have a Rick's MOSFET R/R in the trunk where it has been for a long time as a spare, but with the measurements I've taken, the Stator and R/R appear okay. Hi bmart. 12g over 14g? Probably only of benefit from the RR output to the battery. Given the very short wire lengths and that the electrical loads are split into two virtually at the battery by Main Fuse A and B. Again, with such short wire distances, probably not an issue, its more about good solid, weather proof connections throughout that really matter. As for the Stator wires, the way I see it is you'd still have some length of wire at 14g so there's no real advantage in having a section that was 12g. and you'd be introducing another join in the wiring. No real concern about your stator wires, all three are copper but two are tin plated no difference in conductivity but the tinned ones will have better corrosion and oxidization qualities, but if all three are well connected either by solder and sleeved or high quality crimp joiners and sleeved you shouldn't have any issues. And.......... I make no apologies for repeating myself and advising to keep well away from Auto Reset Circuit Breakers for the main 12v output from the R/R to the battery positive. As always YMMV. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted May 21, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted May 21, 2023 12 hours ago, Grum said: And.......... I make no apologies for repeating myself and advising to keep well away from Auto Reset Circuit Breakers for the main 12v output from the R/R to the battery positive. As always YMMV. Yes!! - Never cared for what our favorite R/R vendor sells.... I usually say go with the metripack 630 fuse assembly... such as .. -- middle of the page... http://www.cycleterminal.com/fuse-boxes.html Looks like DelCity has some nice options too... rated 40amp... havent used one yet, but its on my try it list... (10ga) https://www.delcity.net/store/Inline-Water-Tight-Fuse-Holders/p_800394.h_800395 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted June 11, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2023 Months later...and still looking for help. I got the Bitubo shock that broke in two during the initial install back the other day and we installed it today. Still some significant problems neither of us understand. the mounted th canister wrong...so it is coming back out again to be shipped back and forth, all that it seems to be good for. Measured Penske on red bike and Bitubo fighting against being installed in yellow bike. Both are 330mm on the nose. It was a major fight to get it into the yellow bike. Measuring from the same two points on both bikes, the rear on the yellow bike is WAY higher (8mm) than the red bike. What gives? I looked up p/ns to see if there is a difference. Frame, swingarm, dogbone and triangles are the same. Shock assms are different part numbers. I'm open to great ideas that don't involve setting this bike on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Bren Posted June 11, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2023 A lot of work but how about trying the Penske in the yellow bike to see if that fits on that one? It would rule out any kind of difference between the bikes if it goes in easy and fits properly. Pity about your troubles but maybe cancel the order due to so many issues and get another Penske or whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Bren Posted June 11, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2023 Also as the yellow one is higher in the back maybe the PO put aftermarket triangles on to raise it? Do they have the part numbers stamped into them? Don't set it on fire, yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted June 11, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2023 Thanks. They are stamped and are identical. No need to put myself through the swap (PITA on both bikes, but the Penske fits easily from a length standpoint) as the shocks are the same length. It is surely something with the yellow bike itself, but I can't tell what. Going to request some $ back from Bitubo or for them to fix it...again, off season. I can't wait until one item that I order works out of the box. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted June 11, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2023 In perhaps sunnier pastures, the red bike got new 12GA marine wiring for most of the stator run. The earlier pic of one copper colored wire from the R/R was a hint. I stripped it back and all three were silver. So, I soldered as I was instructed, but worry that now there is no way to isolate the stator for testing without cutting the wires. Hopefully I will never have to. Regardless...it is done. 14.6-14.9 VDC at idle and RPM. Three bikes need test rides now! Time to price hunt for CB-1 chain and sprockets (or chainwheels!). Sure am going to miss this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted June 12, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2023 With the shock out and the wheel off, did you ever identify where it hits that stops further swingarm extension? That is your answer. That is the difference between your two bikes. Whether it is something that can be addressed and improved is another question. There could be a change between those years (exhaust?), that didn't matter regarding swingarm extension with a stock length shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted June 12, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2023 My hands are up. Going to leave it in and try it out. No gear rider sag is 28mm, so close enough. Fingers crossed! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted June 12, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2023 Forgot pics... Proper location: "New and not improved" location. Hydraulic hose bolt squeezed between frame and canister mount. Frack... Clean wires! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted June 26, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 26, 2023 What a "ride" this has been with the yellow bike. Still no explanation for the difficulty in fitting the shock. In the future, I may shorten the shock or raise the front a bit. It turns out that the refit cans updated clocking is correct and the original one was wrong. Must have been built on a Friday afternoon. Finally got out to test and adjust it on two rides. It is surely in the ballpark and a far cry better than stock. Still, once past a few clicks out, the damping adjusters do not click anymore, but still turn and make a difference. Strange. The shock has factory settings, but mine was never set to those. I rode it as it came for damping settings and it was terrible. I set them to factory, and still not great, but better. Finally set at 33mm cold rider sag, Low comp 16 of 24 out, High comp 10 of 20 out. Rebound 13/24 out. Road condition here is approaching what it is like in PA or WV, and normal damping setting are jarring most of the time. I'm married to it now, and the reseller was helpful, but would I recommend it over a Penske? Not really. While it seems to perform fine (and others will like the red look...but I don't), the savings wasn't worth the hassle. And the ambiguity in the adjusters can get in yoru head like not knowing tire pressure at a track day. Ditto on the fork kit I had installed on the '00, not recommended either. The '98 that Thermosman did is miles better. Lastly, I called Sargent to remove the dish from the '00 sargent seat, to match the flat one they did for the '98 for $79. They quoted me $385. Do you think that the guy just didn't understand? That seems crazy high for a tiny mod they've done before and have notes for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeeEffArah Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 2 hours ago, bmart said: ............ Lastly, I called Sargent to remove the dish from the '00 sargent seat, to match the flat one they did for the '98 for $79. They quoted me $385. Do you think that the guy just didn't understand? That seems crazy high for a tiny mod they've done before and have notes for. Obviously, that is their "yeah we don't wanna do it" price. They redid my front FJR1300 seat end of last year for like $185. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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