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FireWire

Lithium Ion Battery

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Have you any experience with lithium batteries? Battery Tender has marketed one in the past and recently introduced a new line of batteries. 

 

So what do you say...stay with the lead/acid or go lithium. 

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Been running a LiFePO4  - lithium iron phosphate 12 cell battery for 6 years and like it. (I'm on my 2nd) Weighs only 2 pounds, doesnt need charging, cranks hard, and for winter I just bring it in and set it on my desk. 

In sitting for maybe 5 months then, it may lose 0.1 volt.

  -- The LiFePO4 are the current technology and much more stable than the early Lithium Ion batterys that did have a higher thermal risk. 

 

Then again, nothing wrong with a classic Yuasa.. 

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I've waited until the OEMs adopted the technology, and Honda now has at least three models with Li-Ion batteries as standard.  Their OEM supplier is ELIIY Power, a Japanese company I'd never heard of, and their largest OEM battery is the HY110: https://www.eliiypower.co.jp/english/vc-files/pdf/pdf_eng/20180308_Release.pdf

 

So that means the technology is probably good enough for me, but they're still quite pricey...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH 

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I ran a Shorai on my 919 and it was fine for everything but cold weather starts (below freezing). That said, it always cranked the bike eventually and never left me stranded. Because I work evenings and spend 4 months of the year starting the bike in cold weather, I opted to stick to AGM.

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That's a peculiarity of lithium cells as compared to lead/acid. All batteries produce more juice hot than cold, but lithium heats itself up significantly when there's a heavy draw on it. Less stable lithium battery chemistries have been known to go out of control... think Samsung phones... The LiFePO4 chemistry is supposed to be significantly more stable. 

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I’d been thinking about trying one, but having read the doc linked below, I’m going to stick to my MotoBatt AGM lead acid.  It’s  not just the battery to think about but it’s place in a charging system not designed for Lithium-ion. You’ll find similar if you look at battery chargers; not all are suitable for Lithium-ion. The doc in the link is from UK based Electrex World who manufacture charge system components for bikes. Their guidance is in the context of their own reg/rects, but the points seem valid for any not “designed for” charging system.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5ekhntoafnc693/Battery Types.pdf?dl=0

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I tend to view things like that as a company doing a round of CYA. When this stuff first hit the market, there were a lot of ebay hacks slapping cells together and calling them motorcycle batteries. I see they specifically mention lithium ion. Here's the thing: LiFePO4 and lithium ion have significant differences. Lithium ion is a poor choice for a motorcycle. LiFePO4 is what Antigravity and Shorai and I assume most of the others are using. 

 

Lead/acid in any of its variations is very forgiving, which is why we're still lugging around 19th century technology. When the LiFePO4 chemistry came out, people started playing with a because it has characteristics that make it a bit more friendly to the abuse we take for granted while saving significant weight. It's still young technology though and it requires more attention than lead/acid. I'm still running lead/acid because I tend to neglect batteries. 

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FWIW, Honda's OEM lithium batteries are explicitly identified as "Lithium Ion", according to the press release I linked to above.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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As in the case of Mello Dude, I've had a Shorai in my VFR since 8/2013, no problems.  We don't get cold though :biggrin:.  More recently put a Battery Tender lithium unit in my R6 track bike, no issue yet.  And I have one in my Aprilia as well, also no problems ...

 

ACE

 

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Switched to Shorai lithium on both VFR 1200's about four years ago. No issues with starting in all weather conditions. Have them on a tender through winter. Did replace one last year but considered that an acceptable lifespan.

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8 hours ago, JZH said:

FWIW, Honda's OEM lithium batteries are explicitly identified as "Lithium Ion", according to the press release I linked to above.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

Hmmm... Apparently my info is not entirely correct. The battery chemistry commonly referred to as lithium ion (the ones that blow up...) is a lithium polymer cell. Apparently LiFePO4 is also technically a subset of lithium ion battery. Interesting...

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LifePo4 is the one you want. 10% heavier but very stable & charge/discharge torlerant.

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Which ones are LifePo4?

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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Antigravity and Shorai both are. I don't know about others. I would assume most of the borderline reputable manufacturers are using that chemistry. Too much liability otherwise. Vehicle fires make great photos which play really well in court! 

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The days of the old heavy lead acid battery are number... smart money
is on the new light weight Lithium Iron battery like Shorai... not
only is it 5lbs lighter but doesn't require trickle charging and will
not sulfate... I also recommend Shorai's balance charger because it as
two modes one for storage and one for charging...

http://www.shoraipower.com

 

Lithium batteries require a different routine than lead acid... understanding the
chargers operation is key to success...


At the end of your ride connect the Shoria charger... Push don't hold
buttons... push either STORE or CHARGE button once and wake up
confirmation is signaled by 1 beep... either push button STORE or
CHARGE once and activation is signaled by 3 beeps... Selecting CHARGE
will bring the battery to 14.4V... but if your bikes charging system
raised the battery higher than 14.4V nothing will happen... CHARGE
mode does not maintain 14.4V... Leavening the battery on CHARGE will
lead to discharge... Select STORE mode and the charger will
maintain/float the battery at approximately 13.3V... that means no
charge begins until volts drop from the high of 14.4V down to 13.3
V... Your battery will rest on STORE mode for as long as power is
supplied to the charger...


But when you are ready to ride push CHARGE to cancel the STORE mode.
Press the CHARGE button momentarily and listen for the triple beep. The
Green light will then begin to flash. It may take up to 30 minutes for the
battery to reach full capacity, approximately 14.4V. It will change to a solid
green once it reaches full capacity... now you're ready to start your ride with
a 100% full capacity batt... if you begin your ride off STORE mode the battery
is only at 13.3V which is 90% capacity...

 

14.340 100%
13.300 90%
13.270 80%
13.160 70%
13.130 60%
13.116 50%
13.104 40%
12.996 30%
12.866 20%
12.730 10%
9.200 0%

 

DSCN2021.JPG

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20 hours ago, JZH said:

Which ones are LifePo4?

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

Been using this one for a year since I rebuilt my charging system. Works great

20191011_170055.jpg

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I decided to buy this Battery Tender from Amazon for $150 along with a dedicated lithium trickle charger. 

These batteries have four terminals so that the wired connection for the trickle charger can be attached to one side while the other to the bikes electrical system.

The battery is smaller than its lead/acid counterpart. Included is a set of small foam blocks take up space so the battery doesn't move around.

This battery has a three year warranty. We're fortunate that a battery lives beyond two years in this oppressive Texas heat.

 

Lithium_270A_Top Left_white.jpg

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I recently  bought a shido LTZ14S weights 1 Kg, and fits perfectly.. So overall 3kg shaving in weight is an improvement for 120pounds, it has more power also so it handle more accessories. 

Thumbs up from me to new technologies.. 🙂

I also have the noco genius g7200 that is a multiple battery charger repairer and includes lithium but did not needed it as yet. 

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18 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:

 

The days of the old heavy lead acid battery are number... smart money
is on the new light weight Lithium Iron battery like Shorai... not
only is it 5lbs lighter but doesn't require trickle charging and will
not sulfate... I also recommend Shorai's balance charger because it as
two modes one for storage and one for charging...

http://www.shoraipower.com

 

Lithium batteries require a different routine than lead acid... understanding the
chargers operation is key to success...


At the end of your ride connect the Shoria charger... Push don't hold
buttons... push either STORE or CHARGE button once and wake up
confirmation is signaled by 1 beep... either push button STORE or
CHARGE once and activation is signaled by 3 beeps... Selecting CHARGE
will bring the battery to 14.4V... but if your bikes charging system
raised the battery higher than 14.4V nothing will happen... CHARGE
mode does not maintain 14.4V... Leavening the battery on CHARGE will
lead to discharge... Select STORE mode and the charger will
maintain/float the battery at approximately 13.3V... that means no
charge begins until volts drop from the high of 14.4V down to 13.3
V... Your battery will rest on STORE mode for as long as power is
supplied to the charger...


But when you are ready to ride push CHARGE to cancel the STORE mode.
Press the CHARGE button momentarily and listen for the triple beep. The
Green light will then begin to flash. It may take up to 30 minutes for the
battery to reach full capacity, approximately 14.4V. It will change to a solid
green once it reaches full capacity... now you're ready to start your ride with
a 100% full capacity batt... if you begin your ride off STORE mode the battery
is only at 13.3V which is 90% capacity...

 

14.340 100%
13.300 90%
13.270 80%
13.160 70%
13.130 60%
13.116 50%
13.104 40%
12.996 30%
12.866 20%
12.730 10%
9.200 0%

 

DSCN2021.JPG

Yep... See, that's the kind of thing that I know I'll never get in the habit of doing, which is why I'm still running lead. Probably fine for people who routinely use a trickle charger, but I'm doing good if I remember to plug one in over the winter. 

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3 hours ago, FireWire said:

I decided to buy this Battery Tender from Amazon for $150 along with a dedicated lithium trickle charger. 

These batteries have four terminals so that the wired connection for the trickle charger can be attached to one side while the other to the bikes electrical system.

The battery is smaller than its lead/acid counterpart. Included is a set of small foam blocks take up space so the battery doesn't move around.

This battery has a three year warranty. We're fortunate that a battery lives beyond two years in this oppressive Texas heat.

 

Lithium_270A_Top Left_white.jpg

A few years ago I found a deal on this battery and a dedicated charger for my Duc, having the 4 terminals is handy and does make for adding accessory/charger connections cleaner and as said by Mohawk, a more universal fit.

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2 hours ago, Marvelicious said:

Yep... See, that's the kind of thing that I know I'll never get in the habit of doing, which is why I'm still running lead. Probably fine for people who routinely use a trickle charger, but I'm doing good if I remember to plug one in over the winter. 

I thought lithium batteries are lot less maintenance?

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