Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 29, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 48 minutes ago, Dustin said: I'm out: I totally agree, the $1100- spent (on and about 10 hours turning wrenches) on DMr kit is a huge "game changer" I can tell on my daily route, much better connected to the road especially being "totally unleashed" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted November 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 I would imagine Power Commander has "Euro fuel maps" because the bikes are somewhat different in different markets, and because DynoJet doesn't automatically know which specifications/parts are relevant to engine tuning (especially early in the model's life), so develops "local" maps to ensure that they have maps that work in each market. In order to determine what is relevant in each market at this point you would have to meticulously go through the parts book (I only have it in paper, not .pdf) and then examine each different part to determine the reason why each such part was different--and then if those differences would likely affect engine characteristics. Finally, test them under controlled conditions. Part numbers change for various reasons, but if only the supplier has changed, this is reflected in the last digit of the third section. More info here. The Honda Parts Books reveal only two different part numbers for the 5th gen airbox top, and AFAIK, neither had two snorkels. Less can often be more... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 which would make this one of the most valuable tuning threads of "all time" Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I tuned this mobility chair within an inch of it's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Forbes Posted November 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 I'm out: Welcome to Hotel 2K1, once you comment, you can never leave....Next upgrade needs to be a thread exit button???Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 29, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 1 hour ago, JZH said: I would imagine Power Commander has "Euro fuel maps" because the bikes are somewhat different in different markets, and because DynoJet doesn't automatically know which specifications/parts are relevant to engine tuning (especially early in the model's life), so develops "local" maps to ensure that they have maps that work in each market. In order to determine what is relevant in each market at this point you would have to meticulously go through the parts book (I only have it in paper, not .pdf) and then examine each different part to determine the reason why each such part was different--and then if those differences would likely affect engine characteristics. Finally, test them under controlled conditions. Part numbers change for various reasons, but if only the supplier has changed, this is reflected in the last digit of the third section. More info here. The Honda Parts Books reveal only two different part numbers for the 5th gen airbox top, and AFAIK, neither had two snorkels. Less can often be more... Ciao, Being a highly successful professional business system "data expert" am trained never to never take data at its "face value", so while studying and becoming familiar with the various Honda parts nomenclature would be quite helpful and essential, that in itself will only reveal "naming and identifier" attribute consistencies is just a "starting point". The purpose of the part numbers are to support the Honda manufacturing supply chain inventory which in itself has several purposes.The imformation you have provided it useful but is not enough to determine everything required to reconfigure the VFR for I increased power. What happens along the way are assumptions are made where knowledge is firmly "not known", the management of "known unknowns" are the key to success. It's very useful to have bits and pieces of the Honda knowledge base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhenley17 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 "Delusions of grandeur" is a symptom of schizophrenia. Also, Parkinson's. You may want to see a doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Nelix Posted November 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 2 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said: am trained Says it all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted November 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 Someone once asked me; what is an "expert" ? I said.....an "ex" is a has-been and a spurt (sp) is a drip under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted November 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 All I can say is "Don't never give up and you'll have no regerts!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer carlgustav Posted November 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 759 replies and counting ... wonder how close this is to the longest thread ever ... ... ACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 29, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 5 hours ago, jhenley17 said: 28 minutes ago, carlgustav said: 759 replies and counting ... wonder how close this is to the longest thread ever ... ... ACE "Delusions of grandeur" is a symptom of schizophrenia. Also, Parkinson's. You may want to see a doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVFR Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Well you gota admit he's sticking to his guns and having a decent sense of things, whether he's wackadoddle or not? We'll find out later, if. I did this look into the ECU change, specifically the JDM, as I know for a fact in their cars, MR2s, Civcs, 240sx RX7s,etc. jdm ones put out differently and their engines put out better numbers in stock form, so why wouldn't a JDM bike like the VFR. So figured I would get my hands on one just for sake of knowing, Ha try and find one. Then after a bit of research on this platform, This I was told by a HRC tuner there was not any difference. part # aside the vfr wasn't made for being hoped up. But IMO there's still room for efficiency. Now are they saying that because they know, or it's easier to say? might have to rethink this again. I was personally looking for a tweak in the ignition, my fuel map could care less as it's been modified for what I have going on. so haviing a euro fuel map ain't helping here. and getting the rabid bike for what ? for $$$. Isn't making sense. Yet. then again a bit of research says the VFR doesn't tune well to a certain range in advance. So back full circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted November 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 On 11/24/2016 at 11:11 PM, Sweeper said: It's a train wreck. How do you not look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 29, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2016 3 hours ago, RVFR said: Well you gota admit he's sticking to his guns and having a decent sense of things, whether he's wackadoddle or not? We'll find out later, if. I did this look into the ECU change, specifically the JDM, as I know for a fact in their cars, MR2s, Civcs, 240sx RX7s,etc. jdm ones put out differently and their engines put out better numbers in stock form, so why wouldn't a JDM bike like the VFR. So figured I would get my hands on one just for sake of knowing, Ha try and find one. Then after a bit of research on this platform, This I was told by a HRC tuner there was not any difference. part # aside the vfr wasn't made for being hoped up. But IMO there's still room for efficiency. Now are they saying that because they know, or it's easier to say? might have to rethink this again. I was personally looking for a tweak in the ignition, my fuel map could care less as it's been modified for what I have going on. so haviing a euro fuel map ain't helping here. and getting the rabid bike for what ? for $$$. Isn't making sense. Yet. then again a bit of research says the VFR doesn't tune well to a certain range in advance. So back full circle. You need to be very careful about relying on "hear-say" especially from "career tuners" because it's just not in their best interest to promote a factory plug and play that increase power without enlisting any "tuner expertise". There is a reason there are a multitude of ECU's and it's also highly likely there is a resulting "baked-in" performance factor on hand. My plan is as the weather gets cooler and I am no longer riding during the week or wrenching upgrades on the weekends, I'll drop the bike off and get it DynoJet tuned and once it's producing max power then switch out just the ECU and go for a few more pulls and see what the numbers say. I know exactly what I am talking about this is not my first rodeo if you don't believe me watch this video about "unleashing ECU" and I did contact and discuss the Euro ECU with Don Guhl ? ECU flash done by Don Guhl discussion. http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/47311-ECU-flash-done-by-Don-Guhl-discussion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAGp_CeImtU&sns=em VFR800 INTERCEPTOR | MotorSport ECU Tuning | ECU Reflashing | ECU Remapping | Chip Tuning - ECUnleashed Tuning Technology: The Go To...To Go Fast Company https://ecunleashed.com/product-category/motorcycles/honda-motorcycle/vfr800-interceptor/ also here is the Aprilla RSV4 RF ride review with some good info (these bikes are being discounted $6000) http://www.sportrider.com/2016-aprilia-rsv4-rf-first-ride-review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soupinmycoupe Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 JdmTyteYo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 30, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 30, 2016 11 hours ago, Soupinmycoupe said: JdmTyteYo Japan Domestic Market ? New 2017 CBR1000RR FIREBLADE!! EXCITED https://youtu.be/gjtzfRDnxdw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted November 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 30, 2016 15 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said: ECU flash done by Don Guhl discussion. http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/47311-ECU-flash-done-by-Don-Guhl-discussion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAGp_CeImtU&sns=em VFR800 INTERCEPTOR | MotorSport ECU Tuning | ECU Reflashing | ECU Remapping | Chip Tuning - ECUnleashed Tuning Technology: The Go To...To Go Fast Company https://ecunleashed.com/product-category/motorcycles/honda-motorcycle/vfr800-interceptor/ also here is the Aprilla RSV4 RF ride review with some good info (these bikes are being discounted $6000) http://www.sportrider.com/2016-aprilia-rsv4-rf-first-ride-review Don Guhl ECU flash link - applicable to VFR1200, not 800/5th Gen. Relevance? Youtube video - I can't access that at work. ECU Unleashed - available for 6th Gen, not 5th Gen. Relevance? RSV4 - Different make, never mind different model. Relevance? Just checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 30, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Skids said: Don Guhl ECU flash link - applicable to VFR1200, not 800/5th Gen. Relevance? Youtube video - I can't access that at work. ECU Unleashed - available for 6th Gen, not 5th Gen. Relevance? RSV4 - Different make, never mind different model. Relevance? Just checking. It's very relevant because the RSV4 RF is performance oriented and the article refers to how the Airbox was improved to uprate the power output. ? Aprilia’s Product Development Manager, Pierro Soatti, recaps each of the changes, starting at the engine: “This year the Superbike and Superstock motorcycle have to be closer to the production one, so you can change less things. One of those things is the airbox, so basically we developed a production airbox that is as close as possible to the former superbike one. The most important thing with an airbox isn’t the dimension, but the trajectory of the wind; In order to reduce losses, the trajectory of wind needs to be straight as possible, so on this airbox the air filter was moved from laying down—where air had to make a corner—to straight up and down,” he reveals. If ever you were curious about how regulations and racing play a hand in the development of production motorcycles, here's your answer. The biggest changes for the 2016 RSV4 are inside the 65-degree V-4 engine. Camshafts are lighter, as are the pistons, connecting rods, and upper crankcase. The bike is claimed to have 201 horsepower (at 13,000 rpm) at the crank, a 16-horsepower jump compared to the last model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 You are quoting a guy who says make the air inlet tract straighter to prove your point. So instead of removing the snorkel which makes it straighter, you added a second one which added more curves. If aprilia had added an extra snorkel to the air box you may have been onto something. As it is, I think you may just be on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 30, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 30, 2016 39 minutes ago, keef said: You are quoting a guy who says make the air inlet tract straighter to prove your point. So instead of removing the snorkel which makes it straighter, you added a second one which added more curves. If aprilia had added an extra snorkel to the air box you may have been onto something. As it is, I think you may just be on something. As usual, the first play is a feeble attempt to "smear" by casting dispersions and finding fault to distract and distort. 2nd play, read it again (attempt to stay focus on subject matter and resist, if possible?, the impulse to smear) and this time look for the keyword "stream" and that's the driving factor. What the snorkels do is funnel the air stream upward and downward into the throttle body Venturi. That's why the second snorkel is more effective and efficient than one Snorkel or a larger airbox.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted November 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 30, 2016 2 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said: As usual, the first play is a feeble attempt to "smear" by casting dispersions and finding fault to distract and distort. 2nd play, read it again (attempt to stay focus on subject matter and resist, if possible?, the impulse to smear) and this time look for the keyword "stream" and that's the driving factor. What the snorkels do is funnel the air stream upward and downward into the throttle body Venturi. That's why the second snorkel is more effective and efficient than one Snorkel or a larger airbox.? I cannot tell you how many dispersions I have cast in my time. I don't know how I got sucked into this Ground Hog Day of a mod thread nor why I am compelled to spend these 15 minutes responding that I will never get back but here goes...my observations: 1. Interesting thread at the right time of year, great for a chuckle or 10 when you can't be out riding or are working. 2. Thread should not be banned nor locked. 3. If the OP relies on the response from Black Widow to justify the "performance" claim then he must logically back up just a bit to recognize that the additional HP gain - according to the manufacturer - is HP that was lost due to interior corrosion of the exhaust. It is entirely possible that even if 2k1 has the most perfectly calibrated butt dyno extant he is really only able to quantify the replacement of the lost ponies due to degradation of his stock exhaust. 4. I don't believe the OP lost that much HP from his stock exhaust. 5. I am still confused about where 2k1 currently is...listed as living in the PNW but trying to schedule dyno time in FL? 6. Intrigued by the possibility of a German ECU unlocking some hidden power but very skeptical. If there were something this seemingly simple (like cutting the blue wire to unlock ROW power on a JDM or French restricted bike) I would think that in the past two decades it would have been uncovered by now but it is possible that 2k1 has uncovered some simple key to this arcane tuning knowledge but based on his insistence on pointing to non-related supporting evidence and the circular equation of his arguments it would truly seem like a blind squirrel finding a nut. 7. A simple way to confirm or denounce the magic German black box would be back to back dyno runs with just that item changed prior to performing the optimization of air fuel mixture. 8. Agree to an extent with CR46 regarding the initial concern in having a newb stumble across this thread and taking the modifications as true blue without empirical evidence (other than the butt dyno) but no longer worried about that due to the sheer volume of clarifying "smear" posts from the members here. 9. So very interested in a before and after dyno run for the G ecu vs A ecu that I would suspect that many are willing to "donate" a portion of their daily coffee spend to reimburse 2k1 for any additional costs associated with testing both ecu under the same circumstances. Well I ran over time on my allotted 15 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted November 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 30, 2016 One last thing for whomever is going to run the HP bingo game card, put me down for 97 hp corrected with or without the G ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhenley17 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Turns out the factory really screwed us on power. If you really want to unleash it all, you stick fan driven by the motor on the intake. It pressurizes the intake air, forcing the exhaust gasses out at a higher speed, which both provides more thrust from exhaust gasses and makes the pistons push down faster, so it can pull up to 170 or 180 quickly. The power is there from the factory, you just need the fan to unleash it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 7 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said: As usual, the first play is a feeble attempt to "smear" by casting dispersions and finding fault to distract and distort. 2nd play, read it again (attempt to stay focus on subject matter and resist, if possible?, the impulse to smear) and this time look for the keyword "stream" and that's the driving factor. What the snorkels do is funnel the air stream upward and downward into the throttle body Venturi. That's why the second snorkel is more effective and efficient than one Snorkel or a larger airbox.? aspersions, not dispersions. a snorkel is very different to a funnel. Try swimming underwater with a funnel instead of a snorkel, and you will realise the difference. The snorkel is not straight, it has curves, corners. Even you recognised this, as funneling something upwards and then downwards means it will be changing direction, so the air stream change directions which goes against what your aprilia engineer was saying. I'm not sure how you ride your bike, but going straight is very different to changing directions. This straight road that you and your butt dyno use, is it straight like and arrow, or straight like a snorkel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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