Unleashing 5th Gen Factory Power + DMr + Thurn MS

[carlitos92]

1 hour ago, jhenley17 said:

Turns out the factory really screwed us on power. If you really want to unleash it all, you stick fan driven by the motor on the intake. It pressurizes the intake air, forcing the exhaust gasses out at a higher speed, which both provides more thrust from exhaust gasses and makes the pistons push down faster, so it can pull up to 170 or 180 quickly. The power is there from the factory, you just need the fan to unleash it.

 

Just put leaf blowers in the side bags. Done. ;)

 

 

 

[2k1GoneWild]

3 hours ago, keef said:

aspersions, not dispersions.

a snorkel is very different to a funnel. Try swimming underwater with a funnel instead of a snorkel, and you will realise the difference.

The snorkel is not straight, it has curves, corners. Even you recognised this, as funneling something upwards and then downwards means it will be changing direction, so the air stream change directions which goes against what your aprilia engineer was saying. I'm not sure how you ride your bike, but going straight is very different to changing directions.

 

This straight road that you and your butt dyno use, is it straight like and arrow, or straight like a snorkel?

 

 

The addition of the second snorkel optimely re-balances an ample air stream supply, to the left side of the airbox, "as intended" by original purpose of design, consequentially providing a higher level of air stream efficiency to the effectiveness of the airbox prior to the addition of the flapper for its subsequent alternate purpose to lower airbox efficiency by restricting air flow for the purposes of compiling to government imposed standard for the purpose of lowered emmision and sound levels, so in other words (and to make a simplify the matter) the airbox got put "on the leash" and the second snorkel is the first step in "unleashing" all the potential "built-in" factory power by both "non-restrictive" means without compromising maximum engine life by protecting from the entry of foreign matter like moisture and debris, it's actually quite simple the RC46 lost power and freedom with liberty and protection. It's a perfect example of what happens to the right to enjoy full performance when the government gets involved imposing restrictions and regulations that are enforced by huge fines, just look at the 15 billion dollars VW just got fined and in turn first let go the chairman and then reduced staff by 30,000 employees to pay for the fine. ?

[2k1GoneWild]

1 hour ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

 

 

[timmythecop]

You do realize the engine is not designed to make 150HP, then it has dumb and/or restrictive things tossed on top to lower the power. It is designed to work as a whole by some very talented and experienced engineers.  These people wear lab coats and know what a slide ruler does. They are paid quite a lot for this expertise. They do not leave "Easter Egg" shortcuts for hapless driveway mechanics to find.

 

Unless you remove/replace/add to some metal hard parts, you are not going to make more than 1-5 more Horsepower. Ever.

 

BUT......why?  I have never bothered to ask how many horsepowers my VFR makes because I dont care. I really do not care. If I did, I most likely would not have purchased a VFR.

 

But continue to entertain the masses here, heck, some of them actually believe that you believe.

 

 

[2k1GoneWild]

50 minutes ago, timmythecop said:

You do realize the engine is not designed to make 150HP, then it has dumb and/or restrictive things tossed on top to lower the power. It is designed to work as a whole by some very talented and experienced engineers.  These people wear lab coats and know what a slide ruler does. They are paid quite a lot for this expertise. They do not leave "Easter Egg" shortcuts for hapless driveway mechanics to find.

 

Unless you remove/replace/add to some metal hard parts, you are not going to make more than 1-5 more Horsepower. Ever.

 

BUT......why?  I have never bothered to ask how many horsepowers my VFR makes because I dont care. I really do not care. If I did, I most likely would not have purchased a VFR.

 

But continue to entertain the masses here, heck, some of them actually believe that you believe.

 

 

This thread in not about "hot-ridding" it's strictly and simply about unleashing all the 5th Gen VFR"s factory 120 whp that's most readily available by removing "performance robbing" restrictions (it's not that difficult to unleash once you have the right recipe). Plus ride-ability is further well-balanced for this increase in power with the DMr suspension components.Thurn MS adds enduring features with German "hand-crafted" derby window (to reveal some of the inner workings) plus the stator and rectifier upgrades to boost up the electrical system making the 5th Gen VFR a timeless, high-quality "total package" riding machine .?

[timmythecop]

if 120 RWHP were "readily available" we wouldn't be having this mind meltingly inane and bad thread.

 

I also no longer believe that you believe.  I guess you bet someone how long you could keep folks posting or how many posts you could rack up.

 

 

[Soupinmycoupe]

? 

[CandyRedRC46]

Why does that kn filter look different than everyother vfr800 kn filter that I have ever seen?






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[Switchblade]

This is the one I like . DMr emulators !

 

 

[2k1GoneWild]

4 hours ago, timmythecop said:

if 120 RWHP were "readily available" we wouldn't be having this mind meltingly inane and bad thread.

 

I also no longer believe that you believe.  I guess you bet someone how long you could keep folks posting or how many posts you could rack up.

 

 

Would you believe that Honda had a 20% design factor power margin reserve for EPA standards based upon country of sale and that's why there are a variety of ECU's ??

[2k1GoneWild]

1 hour ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

Why does that kn filter look different than everyother vfr800 kn filter that I have ever seen?






Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

 

Narrative indicates zero consideration for the airflow stream factor ?

[2k1GoneWild]

1 hour ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

Why does that kn filter look different than everyother vfr800 kn filter that I have ever seen?






Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

 

Although I cannot not be the spokesperson for what you have seen I can tell you I am very particular about ordering any parts and even more particular about which ones I use, to answer your question it most likely has to do with when the filter was manufactured and for the sake of first hand knowledge have a Pipercross in shipment from U.K. ?

[CandyRedRC46]

Narrative indicates zero consideration for the airflow stream factor

Narrative indicates level 9999 troll post

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[The Phantom]

8 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

The addition of the second snorkel optimely re-balances an ample air stream supply, to the left side of the airbox, "as intended" by original purpose of design, consequentially providing a higher level of air stream efficiency to the effectiveness of the airbox prior to the addition of the flapper for its subsequent alternate purpose to lower airbox efficiency by restricting air flow for the purposes of compiling to government imposed standard for the purpose of lowered emmision and sound levels, so in other words (and to make a simplify the matter) the airbox got put "on the leash" and the second snorkel is the first step in "unleashing" all the potential "built-in" factory power by both "non-restrictive" means without compromising maximum engine life by protecting from the entry of foreign matter like moisture and debris, it's actually quite simple the RC46 lost power and freedom with liberty and protection. It's a perfect example of what happens to the right to enjoy full performance when the government gets involved imposing restrictions and regulations that are enforced by huge fines, just look at the 15 billion dollars VW just got fined and in turn first let go the chairman and then reduced staff by 30,000 employees to pay for the fine. ?

 

Wow.

[CandyRedRC46]

Another oldie goldie post from our resident vfr guru/A-hole norcalboy. By the way this was cleared up about five years before you decided to get a vfr lol. Straight from Honda racing company. Number 7. How to modify an air box for max factory power lol.

http://crf450x.net/2007/02/14/honda-bulletin-for-2005-crf450x-closed-course-competion-modifications/

Eagerly awaiting next 2k1 back Petal and irrelevant sidetrack post.

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[Nelix]

Just had an epiphany, can't believe how I have missed this so long. Next time I go snorkeling I'm going to use two snorkels and unleash some of that factory power that God restricted in the design stage of my lungs. Seemingly German lungs are already more powerful, however my mate, Hans Upifyoureatroll,  seems slightly reticent to the lung swap I proposed.

If I do get a German market lung system (non smoker is best) then I shall ask for before and after peak air flow tests to validate the result as unfortunately my butt dyno does not work in water.

[JZH]

I hope this doesn't derail the incredible, fact-based discussion we've been having on this thread, but according to German Wikipedia, the official German power figures for the VFR800 were as follows:

 

Bj.1998-1999: 72 kW
(98 PS) bei 10.500 min⁻¹
Bj.2000-2001: 78 kW
(106 PS) bei 10.500 min⁻¹

 

And for reference:

Bj.2002-2005: 80 kW
(109 PS) bei 10.500 min⁻¹
Bj.2006-2010: 80 kW
(109 PS) bei 10.500 min⁻¹

 

That is consistent with what Honda said about the improvements they had made on the '00 model (in the 2000 European Press Release):

 

"In order to provide the power and performance required to allow the HECS3 low-emissions system to be included standard on every version—or the only version—of the VFR to be released in the year 2000 and onward, the VFR’s design team restudied the effects of the PGM-FI fuel injection system on catalyser efficiency and its related emissions output. Since all factors in the system are closely interrelated in a critical balance of performance, any changes made to one aspect can have major repercussions elsewhere that may not be so easily compensated for.

 

The pivotal key to the difference in the performance of the VFR’s ‘standard’ and HECS3 configurations could be found in the design of the exhaust system, particularly in the vicinity of the catalysers themselves. To work at optimal efficiency, the catalysers must reach a certain temperature threshold that permits their catalytic elements to function properly. This is especially important at start-ups, and can be a problem in very cold weather conditions, since the catalysers are positioned relatively far away from the engine and therefore take longer to reach their optimal operating temperature.

The exhaust system for the current HECS3 system overcomes this problem by using narrower tubing to help accelerate this pre-heating process. This may be a competent fix, but the smaller tubing has the additional effect of restricting maximum power output somewhat, so the HECS3 version of the VFR ended up being approximately 8PS down in maximum power compared to the standard version. While not a major drop in power, and certainly better than any catalyser system developed until now, this was not what the VFR’s design team was hoping to achieve. The solution to this problem came in the form of a new development made for the CBR1100XX Super Blackbird’s fuel injection system.

 

This system also combines with minor programming changes in the fuel injection system’s new, higher precision ECU to increase the idling speed and thereby accelerate the
heating of the emissions system’s catalysers. Because of this, larger diameter exhaust pipes could be used without affecting the catalysers’ operating efficiency, resulting in a subsequent increase in maximum power output. Thus, even with its highly effective HECS3 low emissions system installed, the new Year 2000 pan-European VFR attains a maximum output of 106PS, which is equal to the engine’s output without the system installed. These modifications also resulted in a wider range of optimal low emissions operation, thus permitting the system to effectively reduce emissions even when the VFR is being ridden harder than usual. A further benefit of this system is its remarkable fuel efficiency.  Not only does the new VFR offer better fuel economy than the current ‘standard’ model, but fully 12% better fuel consumption figures than the current HECS3 model."

 

In summary:  The early catalyst-equipped (HECS3) versions of the VFR800Fi (sold in Germany and Switzerland in 1998-99) were approximately 8PS (7.9bhp) down on power, compared with the non-catalyst-equipped "standard" versions sold elsewhere.  Honda wanted to produce a single, low-emissions, catalyst-equipped version of the VFR engine to be sold everywhere, so they made a number of changes for 2000, which Honda was proud to announce had resulted in lower emissions, better fuel consumption figures and the same power as the standard model had previously.  Oh. 

 

Honda VFR800FiY Press Information.pdf

 

[Edit: This thread has earned the "Official" Ichiban Moto Seal of Approval!]

 

 

Ciao,

[2k1GoneWild]

59 minutes ago, JZH said:

I hope this doesn't derail the incredible, fact-based discussion we've been having on this thread, but according to German Wikipedia, the official German power figures for the VFR800 were as follows:

 

Bj.1998-1999: 72 kW
(98 PS) bei 10.500 min⁻¹
Bj.2000-2001: 78 kW
(106 PS) bei 10.500 min⁻¹

 

And for reference:

Bj.2002-2005: 80 kW
(109 PS) bei 10.500 min⁻¹
Bj.2006-2010: 80 kW
(109 PS) bei 10.500 min⁻¹

 

That is consistent with what Honda said about the improvements they had made on the '00 model (in the 2000 European Press Release):

 

"In order to provide the power and performance required to allow the HECS3 low-emissions system to be included standard on every version—or the only version—of the VFR to be released in the year 2000 and onward, the VFR’s design team restudied the effects of the PGM-FI fuel injection system on catalyser efficiency and its related emissions output. Since all factors in the system are closely interrelated in a critical balance of performance, any changes made to one aspect can have major repercussions elsewhere that may not be so easily compensated for.

 

The pivotal key to the difference in the performance of the VFR’s ‘standard’ and HECS3 configurations could be found in the design of the exhaust system, particularly in the vicinity of the catalysers themselves. To work at optimal efficiency, the catalysers must reach a certain temperature threshold that permits their catalytic elements to function properly. This is especially important at start-ups, and can be a problem in very cold weather conditions, since the catalysers are positioned relatively far away from the engine and therefore take longer to reach their optimal operating temperature.

The exhaust system for the current HECS3 system overcomes this problem by using narrower tubing to help accelerate this pre-heating process. This may be a competent fix, but the smaller tubing has the additional effect of restricting maximum power output somewhat, so the HECS3 version of the VFR ended up being approximately 8PS down in maximum power compared to the standard version. While not a major drop in power, and certainly better than any catalyser system developed until now, this was not what the VFR’s design team was hoping to achieve. The solution to this problem came in the form of a new development made for the CBR1100XX Super Blackbird’s fuel injection system.

 

This system also combines with minor programming changes in the fuel injection system’s new, higher precision ECU to increase the idling speed and thereby accelerate the
heating of the emissions system’s catalysers. Because of this, larger diameter exhaust pipes could be used without affecting the catalysers’ operating efficiency, resulting in a subsequent increase in maximum power output. Thus, even with its highly effective HECS3 low emissions system installed, the new Year 2000 pan-European VFR attains a maximum output of 106PS, which is equal to the engine’s output without the system installed. These modifications also resulted in a wider range of optimal low emissions operation, thus permitting the system to effectively reduce emissions even when the VFR is being ridden harder than usual. A further benefit of this system is its remarkable fuel efficiency.  Not only does the new VFR offer better fuel economy than the current ‘standard’ model, but fully 12% better fuel consumption figures than the current HECS3 model."

 

In summary:  The early catalyst-equipped (HECS3) versions of the VFR800Fi (sold in Germany and Switzerland in 1998-99) were approximately 8PS (7.9bhp) down on power, compared with the non-catalyst-equipped "standard" versions sold elsewhere.  Honda wanted to produce a single, low-emissions, catalyst-equipped version of the VFR engine to be sold everywhere, so they made a number of changes for 2000, which Honda was proud to announce had resulted in lower emissions, better fuel consumption figures and the same power as the standard model had previously.  Oh. 

 

Honda VFR800FiY Press Information.pdf

 

[Edit: This thread has earned the "Official" Ichiban Moto Seal of Approval!]

 

 

Ciao,

Very good general research quality information apparently originated from (note: Year 2000 Euro version not same as Year 2000 North America i.e. HISS) press releases for Honda marketing purposes with questionable degree of accuracy. This may not necessarily support particular upcoming actual Dynojet results.The bigger question is if the ECU G , on its own, with the catalyst system entirely removed , will yield increase engine performance due to other (potential) performance contributing (ECU) set point factors like engine timing and engine breaking. ?

[CornerCarver]

2 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

Would you believe that Honda had a 20% design factor power margin reserve for EPA standards based upon country of sale and that's why there are a variety of ECU's ??

 

No but it is apparently worth throwing against the wall to see if it sticks.  So now, test the bike just as it currently sits on a dyno and then R&R the ECU to the A version and let us see the delta on a graph from the same dyno same day.

[slowbird]

3 hours ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

Why does that kn filter look different than everyother vfr800 kn filter that I have ever seen?






Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

 

 

I was wondering the same thing as mine looks like the one with more filter material. Not the other ones I have seen with the tiny amount.

 

Mine:

 

I was wondering what everyone was talking about when they said the K&N had less filter material and smaller surface area when mine looked like that.

 

 (My apologies for derailing this thread with actual real world info)

[2k1GoneWild]

8 minutes ago, CornerCarver said:

 

No but it is apparently worth throwing against the wall to see if it sticks.  So now, test the bike just as it currently sits on a dyno and then R&R the ECU to the A version and let us see the delta on a graph from the same dyno same day.

Rest assured there are a variety of design factored reserves.?

[Duc2V4]

LOL! "...with questionable degree of accuracy"

 

This thread might as well be about time travel and how he went forward into time and yet no substantial proof can be given other than it being theoretically possible, so you have to believe it happened.

[CornerCarver]

4 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

Rest assured there are a variety of design factored reserves.?

 

I rest assured more frequently than not but my rest is assuredly not based on any WAGs made by you in this thread, although, truth be told, some of the belly laughter originating from this thread could be a contributing factor to my sound sleep.

[CandyRedRC46]

10 minutes ago, slowbird said:

 

I was wondering the same thing as mine looks like the one with more filter material. Not the other ones I have seen with the tiny amount.

 

I was wondering what everyone was talking about when they said the K&N had less filter material and smaller surface area when mine looked like that.

 

 (My apologies for derailing this thread with actual real world info)

 

Maybe K&N was paying attention to everybody complaining of reduced area and finally made a real performance filter lol.

 

Honestly the only person derailing this thread is 2k1 

 

 

[slowbird]

1 minute ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

 

Maybe K&N was paying attention to everybody complaining of reduced area and finally made a real performance filter lol.

 

Honestly the only person derailing this thread is 2k1 

 

 

 

 Ha!

 

 Yeah Maybe.