Jump to content
HighSideNZ

Single Nut Rear Axle Conversion - 6Th Gen

Recommended Posts

Top notch stuff as always Phil!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy Crap Phil!

I love that cush drive solution. I have been trying to find a simple single-nut solution that does not add weight (like the Triumph is reported to) for my VFR.

Great post and once again your attention to detail is in documenting this upgrade is as good as your problem solving and engineering work on the upgrade.

1098S rear wheel is forged al, and weighs nothing. But you have to change the front as well otherwise your wheels won't match.

5 gen arm, ducati hub, ducati wheel, a spacer and a shim. Is the 5th arm very different to the 6th arm?

I have a Marchesini forged wheel from an 848 (5.5 width) as well as a matching front. However, the two separate Ducati hubs I have purchased to attempt the simple "shim around the circumference" method of installing into my Honda swingarm have both presented challenges. I am now unsure what model Duc these actually came from (1 was supposed to be from an 848 and the other from a 749 IIRC).

To answer your question on the differences between 5G and 6G swingarms the 5G arm is approximately 25mm shorter in length but aside from that is effectively the same.

Here are a couple of shots of the complete bike. Left and right.

attachicon.gif20150801_114530.jpg

attachicon.gif20150801_114545.jpg

IF Honda built this and sold it as an 8G VFR I would stop bitching about the price of the actual 8G VFR's and buy one even though it has a 15 year old chassis design and an even older engine design! :wink:

the 1098 works, but it has the big axle, the 848 has a smaller axle. I've only got a standard 848 front, couldn't find a forged front when i was looking

So you are saying that I screwed up in selecting the 5.5" wide wheel from the 848 because it utilizes a smaller axle and therefore cannot be simply fitted into the VFR swingarm with the 1.5mm shim surrounding the hub?

Had I gone with the large axle 1098 wheel and the matching large axle hub from a 1098 it would have been more easily fitted to the VFR swingarm?

Can't say for sure since I haven't tried the 848, but probably, I belive the 749s had a smaller axle as well.

I didn't even think about axle sizes, I just wanted a 6inch wheel, so went with the 1098. Got lucky that it was an easy swap.

I'll take the forged 848 front wheel off your hands, just to help out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the 1098 works, but it has the big axle, the 848 has a smaller axle. I've only got a standard 848 front, couldn't find a forged front when i was looking

So you are saying that I screwed up in selecting the 5.5" wide wheel from the 848 because it utilizes a smaller axle and therefore cannot be simply fitted into the VFR swingarm with the 1.5mm shim surrounding the hub?

Had I gone with the large axle 1098 wheel and the matching large axle hub from a 1098 it would have been more easily fitted to the VFR swingarm?

Can't say for sure since I haven't tried the 848, but probably, I belive the 749s had a smaller axle as well.

I didn't even think about axle sizes, I just wanted a 6inch wheel, so went with the 1098. Got lucky that it was an easy swap.

I'll take the forged 848 front wheel off your hands, just to help out.

916, 996, 998, 748, Hypermotard, Multistrada, 848 and 848 Evo are the same rear axle.

749 was dual sided swingarm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice job and a good presentation.. You have gone quite a bit beyond the point where most of the owners would customize their ride... You cleaned up Honda's cush but I believe no cush is even better...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work. I bought my single-nut conversion/wheel. You made yours. Kudos to you, my friend!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi BusyLittleShop

thanks for the praise. Greatly appreciated.

With the urethane bobbins in the cush drive, you may as well say there is none, bar for them giving a little flex under load.

There is no slop in the drive at all but I do think for chain/sprocket life, the bobbins are a good alternative.

I've ridden many race bike with no cush and I understand exactly what you are saying, but for a roady, I think I still prefer a little give.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well done sir. Not to take anything away from your build, it's what Honda should have made in the first place. But H, then you wouldn't have had all the fun you have had, right ;) Whats next? Ti sub frame? Time to also reserve this thread too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny you should mention the subframe.

I'm toying with a Chrome Moly replacement.

I can weld that but I cant weld Ti.

Just trying to source some tubing etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny you should mention the subframe.

I'm toying with a Chrome Moly replacement.

I can weld that but I cant weld Ti.

Just trying to source some tubing etc.

Would you be so kind as to explain why aluminium is left out? Welding equipment?

Edited by WackenSS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fatigue on the aluminium for road use and panniers.

I'd feel much more confident with steel than ally in that situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But that should be just a feeling, I'm pretty sure steel is out on all sport bikes since the mid 90's?

Sent fra min SM-N910F via Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/10/2016 at 1:12 AM, HighSideNZ said:

Fatigue on the aluminium for road use and panniers.

I'd feel much more confident with steel than ally in that situation.

As a sole reason, this is a bit silly. Thousands of airframes built of simple formed sheet endure far more abuse than your bike will see in 20 lifetimes - if engineered properly, your subframe could do the same.

Also, if you are capable of tig welding steel, then it is highly likely you can also learn to weld titanium. You can weld Ti outside a chamber, if that was your concern.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/08/2015 at 12:10 PM, keef said:

Can't say for sure since I haven't tried the 848, but probably, I belive the 749s had a smaller axle as well.

I didn't even think about axle sizes, I just wanted a 6inch wheel, so went with the 1098. Got lucky that it was an easy swap.

I'll take the forged 848 front wheel off your hands, just to help out.

 

69C2EC38-209C-4C6E-9BD1-9453E670889F.jpeg

5C472A50-09A2-4B15-8749-EF465618E498.jpeg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that a 1098/1198 or 848 wheel? Looks wicked! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/1/2015 at 1:03 AM, HighSideNZ said:

Here are a couple of shots of the complete bike. Left and right.

post-25941-0-40311500-1438416195.jpg

post-25941-0-19296400-1438416205.jpg

 

HighsideNZ, I just stumbled across this thread and must echo the other compliments on your craftsmanship and documentation. Thank you for posting your machining spec drawings.

 

And to paraphrase Crocodile Dundee...

 

 

That's not an 8-spoke:image.jpeg.cde5e9799167f6234ca9c0bcb288c514.jpeg

 

 

 

That's an 8-spoke:image.png.9a732f1f2416162e9d4f95f1b7fafb7d.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bringing this thread back because............I finally finished my conversion -

 

Ducati, 848 rear hub, OZ 5.5" wheel, conversion kit from Extreme Creations in Oz, aftermarket cushdrive and sprocket kit, some Ti hardware as well.

 

About 100mi so far, no issues

 

 

VFR_rear_1.jpg

VFR_rear_2.jpg

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice! :fing02:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 spoke Oz racing wheels have broke during the rigors of a race... inspect your 5 spoke critical junction often...

JettisonDucatWheeli.jpg

JettisonDucatiWheel.jpg

JettisonDucatiWheel....jpg

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite the "Racing" sticker it is not a track wheel - its the street version. May see a track day and an occasional passenger. 

 

Will be keeping an eye on it - the anti-theft lock goes through the rear wheel so I'll get a look everytime I park

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good plan... look closely and you can see the wheel fails one spoke at at time and not all at once... first sign might be a squirming sensation like rain groves or a deflated tire...

 

JettisonDucatiWheel...jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:

6 spoke Oz racing wheels have broke during the rigors of a race... inspect your 5 spoke critical junction often...

JettisonDucatWheeli.jpg

JettisonDucatiWheel.jpg

JettisonDucatiWheel....jpg

Just to qualify this particular wheel After investigation was discovered to be a hand me down from a sponsored team to the team where it broke, it was IIRC a magnesium Race wheel & had been crashed a few times & NEVER x-ray/dye checked. That’s why cheap secondhand race wheels should be avoided & magnesium ones never used on the road as there are prone Stress fractures. And on broken spoke on a marginally strong wheel is all it takes to overload the rest !

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Poor Magnesium... the little known "metal of motion"... it deserves to be understood its fatigue strength is good...

 

Personally I've been running Dymags and Marchesini magnesium wheels on the street since 1982... that's 38 years of
worth of riding with no cracks noted... and I'm not known to ride in moderation either...

 

If you need to know if a small piece of metal is magnesium or not...
apply white vinegar directly to exposed bare metal... if it fizzes
it's safe to say magnesium... if it doesn't it can be any other metal
in the world...

 

 

GPz550 and my 3 spoke Dymags bought from Harris Performance the
day I visited the brothers shop in England...

265314032_ed2c82b432_o.jpg

 

Mr.RC45's 3 spoke Marchesini magnesium wheels... rear 6x17 Rear Rim from Freddie Spencer's
RC30...$600 and front 3.5x17 Front Rim that was owned by Wayne Rainey when he sponsored

Jimmy Felice YZ250R... $500

 

315048023_c2710a3b99_o.jpg
3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg

 

My hand machined magnesium triple clamps in Dow 7...
1922147049_a35b7d3a42_o.jpg

 

My hand machined magnesium caliper mounts...
833790051_b85a11c78b_o.jpg
3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:
3 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:

3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg

 

 

BLS, please tell us about your carbon-ceramic rotors -

-do they work on the street?

-how do they compare to stock?

-special pads required?

-where are they available

-i assume they're much lighter, but how much?

-do they require other modifications?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jim v said:

 

BLS, please tell us about your carbon-ceramic rotors -

-do they work on the street?

-how do they compare to stock?

-special pads required?

-where are they available

-i assume they're much lighter, but how much?

-do they require other modifications?

 

 

 

They are Ceramic Matrix Composites...

 

Yes CMC work on the street cold or hot or wet or dry...

 

CMC bite that same as steel rotors...

 

CMC  do not require special pads...

 

CMC weight

Stock Honda 310mm stainless steel 3 lbs 4 oz

Ferodo 320mm Ductle Iron 2 lb 8 oz

Ceramic Matrix Composite 1 lb 7 oz

 

CMC don't require any other mods...

 

CMC aren't available any more due to cost... I paid $2,400 a set...

 

Performance features include:

    * Not thermally sensitive (will work great on the street)
    * Ultra broad torque curve across a very wide thermal range
    * Much longer lasting than Carbon / carbon
    * Much less expensive than Carbon / carbon
    * Great wet weather performance - unlike Carbon / carbon [not hygroscopic]
    * Terrific feel and feedback at the lever
    * Strong braking performance? We mean, Really strong: +.6 mu average friction with special Ferodo Racing brake pads

 

I also installed a CMC Ducati disc on the rear in a on going effort to reduce weight...

 

 

 

 

CMCRC45Disc1.JPG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info, seems like a much better solution than metal if cost is no object

 

I'm surprised they're no longer available - $2400 for a set of discs is expensive(!!) but I'm sure there's a small group of wealthy riders who would be willing to pay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.