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sfdownhill last won the day on April 12

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About sfdownhill

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  • Birthday 04/14/1964

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  • Location
    Vista CA
  • In My Garage:
    2001 VFR
    2003 CRF450R

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  1. Thanks Samuel! I hit Jozef up for motogp paddock passes through Attack, but theirs were already spoken for. It will be a blast any way we slice it - even the rainy free practice tomorrow morning.
  2. This is true, HighSide. and as Wade and I discovered, getting a fat, non-crossover cyl #1 primary tube (left rear) past all the 8 gen hardware that Honda nestled in around the stock headers has proven to be a bit of a rub - solveable, but not solved yet. Also to be noted is the difference in 02 sensor size - 12mm for stock 8 gen and 18mm for 5/6 gen and Bosch wideband sensors. We’ll have to get a plan together for 8 gen bung size. Wade is highly in favor of a single choice for 8 gen headers: get a single bung, single size, single placement or no bung at all.
  3. We barely got the mufflers done in time, but we’d already test fit them two weeks ago after gutting them, before working on their internals. They will be finished in black and have black OEM heatshields trimmed and bead rolled to wrap around the trailing edges of the mufflers. Muffler mod will be covered in a separate thread. B8259217-2C5C-442B-8128-55AEF70AC069.MOV C53ED7DF-A6CE-4028-A6C3-520CA98A26EC.MOV
  4. Yep - Hammerdrill only lives 6 miles from Attack, so he rode his VFR to and from the session. After he got home he texted “Hey! Now I can wheelie on this bike!” And dang! Forgot about ignition mapping and how it helps the 6 gen. Does PCV have ignition mapping onboard, or does it require an add-on module?
  5. DYNODAY II : V4 GOES VTECH!! This is VFRD member Hammerdrill's 6 gen. It has all these components in black: forks, rotor carriers, frame, OEM mufflers, swingarm, drive hub, footpegs, radiators, etc. In the middle it has Sebspeed's clutch cover, up top it has an 8 gen cockpit [bars and triple clamps] and deeply red R157 bodywork. All this black and gold pops with contrasting with pearl white wheels. I can't get enough of this bike. And it's not just a pretty face, it runs and handles great, as it is suspended by a full DMr suspension that Jamie built for Hammerdrill's weight and riding style, and has a Power Commander V smoothing out the fueling. So raises the eternal question - what next mod would benefit this motorcycle and keep us out of trouble for at least a short while? Answer: Put it on the dyno! Get a baseline, then put new headers on it and tune the living heck out of it. So we did. Wednesday April 10, we showed up at Attack Performance prepared. We had test fit the headers two weeks prior, and brought all the accoutrements we'd need to put the bike in Jozef's capable hands for baseline and tune. I've made myself late here, so will slam up dyno charts and try to explain my way out of the ticket later. [Who can figure out the lean spike in AFR between 10k and 10.5k rpm?] 6 gen baseline with zero map in PCV compared to middle graph w new headers and zero map in PCV, compared to top graph after full tune: Here is the same comparison with a midrange reference line: Conditions on the day [All runs occurred same day]: Comparison of tuned 6 gen to tuned 5 gen, both tuned with the new headers: 6 gen vs 5 gen conditions:
  6. A 6 gen fitment of the 8 gen exhaust is a great idea. The only obstacle is near-term availability of a 6 gen for this test. I'd be happy to take a 6 gen with me when I take the 8 gen up for final pre-dyno fitment, but the two 6 gens we have easy access to are Hammerdrill's, which is now totally dialed and dyno tuned with the new headers, and Duc2V4's, which is his 'daily driver' - it gets him to work projects all around socal and he can't afford for it to have a few days of downtime. We'd be open to any other 6 gen loaner on which to test fit the 8 gen headers. But we are deep in 5 gens, with four on hand.
  7. Yessir - more angle on the next batch fersher. It's a bit frustrating because I have OEM 6 gen headers and measrued their bung locations carefully. I put the OEM 6 gen headers in Wade's hands and specified that the two bung locations on the new headers' secondaries match the OEM. I'm in Texas [Yes for COTA motogp!] so won't be able to check the 6 gen headers until Monday night, but dang, I swear these new header's bung locations match OEM. For the sake of those of us who don't yet know: What problems are caused by water collected on and around an O2 sensor?
  8. Last night's snoozefest continued: 5/6 gen production headers went to the passivators this week and will be ready to pick up end of next week. DucV4 and I have arranged to have a box-building and packing party as soon as we get the headers back, so shipping will take place April 22. 8 gen headers are under construction - Wade says we will have a working example ready for final fitment and the dyno at the end of next week. The first objective on the 8 gen headers was to build a mockup set of headers from which he will build a jig [fixture] like the one he built around the original Two Brothers headers. This process was easier on the 8 gen than it was with the TBR, because the TBR were rare and sacrosanct - under no circumstances were they to be damaged. To build this mockup, Wade was free to cut, tack weld, sew, test fit, stitch back together, add length, change bends, etc. At his shop last Friday, he was making lots of sparks, loud metallic screeching sounds, and generating the smell of very hot metal all day [After disassembling the 8 gen, I hung around and kept busy with test fitting 5/6 gen headers to confirm bung placements]. Item #1 on his list was installing the upper rear primaries, and right off the bat, spacing didn't look great; they were too far apart from each other, and they ran into hard parts of the 8 gen. Part of this turned out to be the thick OEM crush gaskets that I neglected to remove - the gaskets were pushing the new primaries out of alignment. Most of the problem was caused by two other fitment/engineering conflicts we ran into. First, the 8 gen rear primaries are of much smaller diameter tubing and cross over each other before turning downward to where they merge. The left rear primary of the new headers, with larger diameter tubing and no crossover, runs into the inner heat shield - this is the curved sheet metal piece that resides between the left rear primary and the shock absorber. On the 8 gen fitment bike, we temporarily removed this piece. Second, the brake hose from the ABS controller to the rear caliper comes into contact with the new headers. We temporarily removed a bolt that holds two hard brake line fittings together so we could scoot the hose over - without disconnecting - and install the new rear primaries. Refresher note: 8 gen OEM left and right rear primaries merge with each other, and 8 gen OEM left and right front primaries merge with each other. 5/6 gen OEM [and new performance headers] left front and left rear primaries merge with each other, 5/6 gen OEM [and new performance headers] right rear and right front primaries merge with each other. Note the gussets Wade added here [and other places visible in other photos] to maintain spacing during assembly. Radiators off to start on the interesting part: crafting the front primaries. Here you can see the 'starter tubes' Wade made and installed into the front exhaust ports. Note visegrips holding a spacer in place: The collector exit was somewhat less trouble. IMPORTANT NOTE: the 8 gen single OEM bung and O2 sensor are 12mm, not the 18mm fittings we've found with 5/6 gens and Bosch wideband sensors. Here is a nut tacked into the OEM bung location as placeholder: Everything was starting to look good, until we installed the fitment Staintune slipon and found it too far to the left, which meant the front end of the headers was misaligned. Think of the vertical sections of the rear primaries [at the slip joints] as the center of a pivot; if the rear of the the header assembly is too far to the left - and it was - the front section of the assembly needs to be cut and reformed to bring the rear into alignment. Wade doesn't get phased by adjustments like this, he just chops off the offending appendage and gets busy making his mockup correct. In this case, cutting off the front pirimaries and realigning them correctly pivoted the assembly around the rear primaries' slip joints and the whole assembly came into front-center-rear alignment. Somehow this pipe looks good on any bike. That's it for this update. I'll do 6 gen dyno day results in the next post.
  9. Then how are we supposed to get the inside of the pipes clean?
  10. I apologize for the delay in posting updates - Duc2 V4 has been responsibly reminding me that header related things are happening and those who have purchased headers or placed deposits have a right to know. The photos and brief details in this post will be supplemented with further information once I get to a peaceful place with a slower pace - the airport tomorrow. Shipping - Duc2V4 and I discovered that the USPS Retail Ground shipping rates we quoted are only available in person in a US Post Office, after standing in line and filling out forms by hand. Luckily, Duc got busy with his corporate Fedex account and his careful cross-checking found that he can ship Fedex for about the same as the bargain basement price of USPS+insurance. With Fedex, specifying the package value establishes a coverage amount, so the headers shipped Fedex will be covered. First shipped headers received - VFRD member carlgustav received prototype 2 headers today and we traded texts on fitment to his 6 gen [Prototype 2 was constructed and tested in January] . His install is looking good, but will have to wait until after a family celebration this weekend. 8 gen dyno day rescheduled - I made a mistake in thinking that the objective of last Friday's visit to Wade's shop was to produce a working 8 gen prototype. I was wrong - the actual objective was to fabricate a tacked-together 8 gen header from which Wade could build a jig, as he did with the original Two Brothers headers. Temporary tack welds to hold assembly together: I am nodding off, so will pick this up again tomorrow. 5/6 gen production headers are paid for and have been picked up - we visited Wade last Friday, counted up the 22 headers with various bung configurations, paid for them, and loaded them up into the rig to bring then home: Second objective last Friday was check bung placement. Wade correctly observed that whether they were right or wrong, all the bungs were already done. Nevertheless, I test fit a 3-bung set of headers on our 5 gen fitment bike and all 3 bungs ended up their proper places. Here is the rear bung placement [Please pardon the accumulated rust and crud on the chain and center stand - this bike's rehab is off in the future a bit]: And here are the front two bungs:
  11. I weighed it at a Postal Annex shop - 7.3kg / 15.9 lbs
  12. Hi MBrane - if wade sticks to his commitment to hand over completed headers next Thursday, we can set up a time for you to pick up yours. If the 5/8 gen muffler fitment exercise hasn't yet taken place, bring your pipes, and we'll see how things line up. This is prototype 2 packed and ready to ship to VFRD member carlgustav in Alabama. Once again I am confronted by my poor before-and-during photo-taking habits. That significant hunk of cardboard is 36x16x16" to allow minimum 2" on every side of the headers for protective packing material.
  13. If all goes according to plan, the new 8 gen headers will be the same as the new 5/6 gen headers from the collector exit all the way forward [including the rear primaries] until the front sections of the two front primaries. Ken, yesterday Wade assigned us homework that pertains to your question about 6 gen fitment : to help foresee any fitment issues with the collector exit of the new headers for 8 gen, we are going to attempt to fit OEM mufflers and aftermarket slipons from both 8 gen and 5 gen to both of those bikes - gonna throw a multi-pipe mini-swapmeet party. Four mufflers, two bikes, no rules, best fit takes all. Even if the muffler hanger mount holes/brackets are in different locations, we will get a rough idea of whether collector exit length, angle, and position line up between the two motorcycles. If they line up as expected [Or should I say as hoped?], we can relax a tiny bit. Fitment of 6 gen dual high mount mufflers can be extrapolated from the results of the 8-5 gen muffler exchange matrix because we had to cut 5/8" off the new 5/6 gen header's collector exit before the 6 gen OEM mufflers fit correctly on a 6 gen motorcycle. After the cut, OEM 6 gen mufflers fit perfectly.
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