Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 5, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 5, 2014 I've been following this and debating about throwing my name on the list, esp. given the back and forth on pipe diameter, which cylinders help scavenge which, etc. So ... what if we all chip in so Duc2V4 can do a before and after dyno run prior to the group buy? Realizing, of course, that YMMV according to other mods, etc. That way we know that we're buying more than sound, fury and a bitching looking set of pipes. Or maybe not. But at least we'll know. It's not that complicated. We are essentially using stock RC45/TBR specs which have the layout and dimensions to give proven performance gains with dyno charts already posted in this thread. The primaries may be a half mm larger ID... I can't comment for sure, I didn't measure the TBR primaries myself. If they are it will likely give a little more hp at redline....We are not going to conscribe to have built the absolute max performance headers for all VFR800s... they will certainly be an improvement over what is available and will meet the greatest number of members needs. This thread was started as a group buy not an exercise in R&D. If that doesn't work for you... read the dyno charts we post up. If they meet your approval you can call Rod to make you a set... if not, there are Motad or Delkavic... or you can buy some '98-'99 5th gen headers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted August 5, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 5, 2014 " cyl #1 + #2 merge and #3 + #4 merge, that's the performance merge layout we want." This one ^^^^^. Right ? Yes... that is the layout of the TBR headers and the '98-'99 5th gens... For comparison... Y2k top... '99 5th gen ceramic coated bottom... 10-4 You use the previous exhaust pulse to help speed up the incoming correct ? In a nutshell, yes... there is a lot going on in the exhaust system. First, you want the exhaust gases to get out with minimal interference or resistance (back pressure). Then there is exhaust scavenging which uses the properties of the exhaust system to create a pull through the exhaust valve right before it closes and the intake valve has just opened (valve overlap). When this is done right the exhaust scavenging evacuates the combustion chamber of the last exhaust gases and draws fresh air/fuel charge into the cylinder starting the intake stroke before the exhaust valve has closed.To get exhaust scavenging you have the physical action of hot expanding gases that erupt out of the exhaust valve as it opens; this creates a pressure wave that travels faster (around the speed of sound) than the hot gases physically can (picture a ripple from a rock thrown in a river traveling downstream faster than the water), the exhaust gases are pushed out by the piston on the up exhaust stroke; the pressure wave will interact and reflect inside the exhaust; with a properly tuned exhaust the 1st major reflected wave (usually at the first merge) travels back up the primary and bounces off the exhaust port and the back of the closing exhaust valve, this reflected wave in effect sucks through the closing exhaust valve scavenging the combustion chamber as it bounces off and travels back down the primary for the second time... Thanks got it .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 6, 2014 Just a follow up, I have not heard back from Rod regarding the pictures and offering of the '98 headers. Not sure if he's not around or is just really busy. I may give him a call tomorrow and see if he at least got the emails. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 6, 2014 Just a follow up, I have not heard back from Rod regarding the pictures and offering of the '98 headers. Not sure if he's not around or is just really busy. I may give him a call tomorrow and see if he at least got the emails. Cheers Thanks for the follow-up. .. look forward to hearing his response. Hopefully, keeping it in front him will reinforce that we are serious and ready to move forward on this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 6, 2014 Please add my name to the "on the fence" list. This sounds excellent. Looking forward to the development and my thanks to those who got this initiative underway. Cheers. Dave Hi Dave! Thanks for your interest. We have a list of folks who have committed to buy in post#1... as stated in an earlier post, if you have a conditional "if" your not added to the list. There is no "on the fence list" unless your keeping score at home... no offense is meant, it just takes too much time to keep up with so many people with a variety of reasons why they are "on the fence". Hopefully, you decide the benefits of performance headers meet your needs and we can add you to magic spot #20... it sounds so much better to say "we have 20 people ready to buy" than 19... So what do you say? Shall I add you to the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 6, 2014 No. 1 fires at 0º No. 2 fires at 0º + 180º = 180º No. 3 fires at 180º + 270º = 450º No. 4 fires at 450º + 180º = 630º No. 1 fires again at 630º + 90º = 720º .... yanno? I see you've been reading up on the subject... Perhaps, http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/72962-rvf800rr-build/page-11 Now that I look closer... I'm not sure where those firing orders came from. That is not the firing order listed in the 5th gen service manual... No. 1 fires at 0º No. 3 fires at +180º No. 2 fires at +270º No. 4 fires at +180º No. 1 fires at +90º Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted August 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 7, 2014 So what is the current format and preliminary price of the pipe being made? You can add me as a definite yes if the following 4 conditions are met: Stainless, larger primary diameter, stock primary connections, stock exit, $600. If this is a custom fabricator, do we have any pictures of his work? If we aren't paying for a premium product, might as well just order motad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 7, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 7, 2014 So what is the current format and preliminary price of the pipe being made? You can add me as a definite yes if the following 4 conditions are met: Stainless, larger primary diameter, stock primary connections, stock exit, $600. If this is a custom fabricator, do we have any pictures of his work? If we aren't paying for a premium product, might as well just order motad. Pictures of Rod's work were posted earlier in the thread (NT650, VFR400)... as were all the details around your conditions. Price has yet to be finalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 7, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 7, 2014 TBR sent out an email with a link to the new VFR800 slip-ons... two versions, one with and one without saddle bags. 2014 VFR800 w/ TBR slip-on on dyno In the email they called it a VFR900... I wish!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted August 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 7, 2014 TBR sent out an email with a link to the new VFR800 slip-ons... two versions, one with and one without saddle bags. 2014 VFR800 w/ TBR slip-on on dyno In the email they called it a VFR900... I wish!!! Interesting - On the Dyno stock looks to be around 94 or 95 and the slip on pushes it to around 100hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWP34 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Potential Re-release of Two Brothers Racing (TBR) 5th Gen Full Exhaust System!!! I requested information from TBR about the possibility of re-releasing the 5th gen headers. I received a response today from Greg at TBR forwarding information from the CEO... Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 6:37 AM "We can re-produce the VFR800 headers 1998-2001 with 100 pre-paid orders. The 1998-2001 header has not been tested by us on the 02-09 or the new 2014 model. Each system will cost $899.98 for CF muffler and $799.98 for Aluminum. 12 weeks for delivery after all orders are complete. Thanks, Jeff Whitten Two Brothers Racing, Inc | CEO" I know 100 orders is a lot, but we have 14 already... As a company they haven't tested the headers on a 6th gen, but we know they work; using these headers on a 6th gen requires a custom mid-pipe that currently the buyer would be responsible for having fabricated. And we have reports of our European friends fitting 5th gen exhausts to the 2014 with zero modifications... I've also requested info on pricing and availability of just the headers instead of the full system EDIT: TBR response for the headers only: " Header & Midpipe & Hardware set cannot be split. They are $599.98 for that package" Note: The discharge from the header collector is not in the same location and angle as the stock header, this is a performance exhaust system. If you purchase the header and use your existing slip-on a custom mid-pipe will need to be fabricated. I'll commit, c'mon let's make this happen! Rush2112 - Full w/ CF muffler please! JDMBird83 - Headers HighSideNZ - Headers mspence82 - Headers RRM - Headers CornerCarver - Full w/ CF muffler CornerCarver - Full w/ Aluminum muffler CornerCarver - Headers CornerCarver - Headers aokman - Full jim v Wera803 - Full w/ CF muffler Spiff - Headers FJ12Ryder - Headers MBrane vfrcapn RoadToed - Headers F1Fan - Headers apagan34 - Headers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 8, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 8, 2014 Potential Re-release of Two Brothers Racing (TBR) 5th Gen Full Exhaust System!!! I requested information from TBR about the possibility of re-releasing the 5th gen headers. I received a response today from Greg at TBR forwarding information from the CEO... Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 6:37 AM "We can re-produce the VFR800 headers 1998-2001 with 100 pre-paid orders. The 1998-2001 header has not been tested by us on the 02-09 or the new 2014 model. Each system will cost $899.98 for CF muffler and $799.98 for Aluminum. 12 weeks for delivery after all orders are complete. Thanks, Jeff Whitten Two Brothers Racing, Inc | CEO" I know 100 orders is a lot, but we have 14 already... As a company they haven't tested the headers on a 6th gen, but we know they work; using these headers on a 6th gen requires a custom mid-pipe that currently the buyer would be responsible for having fabricated. And we have reports of our European friends fitting 5th gen exhausts to the 2014 with zero modifications... I've also requested info on pricing and availability of just the headers instead of the full system EDIT: TBR response for the headers only: " Header & Midpipe & Hardware set cannot be split. They are $599.98 for that package" Note: The discharge from the header collector is not in the same location and angle as the stock header, this is a performance exhaust system. If you purchase the header and use your existing slip-on a custom mid-pipe will need to be fabricated. I'll commit, c'mon let's make this happen! Rush2112 - Full w/ CF muffler please! JDMBird83 - Headers HighSideNZ - Headers mspence82 - Headers RRM - Headers CornerCarver - Full w/ CF muffler CornerCarver - Full w/ Aluminum muffler CornerCarver - Headers CornerCarver - Headers aokman - Full jim v Wera803 - Full w/ CF muffler Spiff - Headers FJ12Ryder - Headers MBrane vfrcapn RoadToed - Headers F1Fan - Headers apagan34 - Headers Hi apagan34, Welcome to the forum... just for clarity, have you read the whole thread and are you aware of what you are committing to buy? There is a lot more going on then what is in the first post. If you understand what we are buying and are committing to purchase I'll add you to the list in the first post. Thanks... ...and may I suggest an introduction post in the Official Welcome Forum with pictures of your bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 9, 2014 Here's an update. I contacted TBR again. The following exchange occurred" Me: We are at 20 people committed to buy and have had over 13,500 views on the forum thread... people are interested. Any chance we could negotiate that starting order number down from 100? Please let me know. Thanks... PS: The new S1R system for the 2014 VFR800 will also fit the 1998 - 2001 VFR800s. Let me know if you need someone to come by with a bike to prove it with a test fit. You already have the midpipe, muffler, and hardware for the full system in stock... now we just need to get the headers made! TBR: Hey, unfortunately not. We have so many exhausts we are constantly, bending, cutting, making that they will only re-start an older model for a minimum of 100. Sorry I don’t have better news Me: Just a thought... if you made the headers for the new 2014 VFR it would be for a current model not an older model... and it would fit all the VFR800s from 1998 to 2009 (2010 in some parts of the world!) + the new model year. You would already have 20 orders right off the bat! That should more than cover the tooling costs. And headers with a stock discharge location would fit your current S1R model so you would have a full system with parts already on the shelf!!! Add a center stand stop and O2 bungs to the headers and you would have a versatile system that would fit hundreds of thousands of bikes around the world. Word would spread... the new 2014 VFR owners are already modifying their bikes and exhausts as we write... Don Guhl has developed ECU re-flashes for the VFR1200 and the 2006-2009 VFR800s, the new model will be next... adding 10-15 hp to this new bike will really wake it up and keep the moto-journalists talking about it but it needs a proper exhaust to do that... what do you say? Bring it up in the monthly planning meeting and see if it flies... He agreed to pass the info along... We'll see what shakes out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I think they'd be stupid if they didn't move forward with it, and assholes if they don't give you a deep discount on your set for getting the whole thing kicked off for them. Just my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voided76 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 well done on the diplomacy, man! that's good news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 You guys have no idea how bad I want to see Erion or Akro come through and build a full system and have it sell hundreds just to tell two brothers to suck it. I literally have their full system that they are being so difficult about building on my bike right now. Seriously it covers 3 generations and 18 years of bikes. Just f$&@ing build it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 9, 2014 You guys have no idea how bad I want to see Erion or Akro come through and build a full system and have it sell hundreds just to tell two brothers to suck it. I literally have their full system that they are being so difficult about building on my bike right now. Seriously it covers 3 generations and 18 years of bikes. Just f$&@ing build it already. Shortly after the exchange with TBR I did email Erion again with the same info, argument, and request... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWP34 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Potential Re-release of Two Brothers Racing (TBR) 5th Gen Full Exhaust System!!! I requested information from TBR about the possibility of re-releasing the 5th gen headers. I received a response today from Greg at TBR forwarding information from the CEO... Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 6:37 AM "We can re-produce the VFR800 headers 1998-2001 with 100 pre-paid orders. The 1998-2001 header has not been tested by us on the 02-09 or the new 2014 model. Each system will cost $899.98 for CF muffler and $799.98 for Aluminum. 12 weeks for delivery after all orders are complete. Thanks, Jeff Whitten Two Brothers Racing, Inc | CEO" I know 100 orders is a lot, but we have 14 already... As a company they haven't tested the headers on a 6th gen, but we know they work; using these headers on a 6th gen requires a custom mid-pipe that currently the buyer would be responsible for having fabricated. And we have reports of our European friends fitting 5th gen exhausts to the 2014 with zero modifications... I've also requested info on pricing and availability of just the headers instead of the full system EDIT: TBR response for the headers only: " Header & Midpipe & Hardware set cannot be split. They are $599.98 for that package" Note: The discharge from the header collector is not in the same location and angle as the stock header, this is a performance exhaust system. If you purchase the header and use your existing slip-on a custom mid-pipe will need to be fabricated. I'll commit, c'mon let's make this happen! Rush2112 - Full w/ CF muffler please! JDMBird83 - Headers HighSideNZ - Headers mspence82 - Headers RRM - Headers CornerCarver - Full w/ CF muffler CornerCarver - Full w/ Aluminum muffler CornerCarver - Headers CornerCarver - Headers aokman - Full jim v Wera803 - Full w/ CF muffler Spiff - Headers FJ12Ryder - Headers MBrane vfrcapn RoadToed - Headers F1Fan - Headers apagan34 - Headers Keep up the good fight. I believe persistence pays ! Thanks again for pushing through. I know your hard work will pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aokman Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 They would be absolutely stupid not to do it, but hey they keep using that butt ugly silencer design so I don't think they are capable of making the best decisions most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted August 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2014 I've just sent the following direct to Akrapovic & a similar one to Termignoni a couple of weeks back, no reply from Termignoni, lets hope Akrapovic are more forth coming. >>>>>> Hi There, we are trying to arrange a group buy of performance exhaust headers for the VFR800. The same header fits all year models, from 1998-2014, but no one seems to make any. If you have a look here on VFRD there are over 20 of us that would like a system or preferably headers for a lot of us that already have customised end cans. Would Akrapovic consider making this ? There are many thousands of VFR800's on the roads & no performance exhaust system since the Two Brothers that were made for the 98-01 models. I'm sure Akrapovic could make a stainless steel system or even offer a Titanium option. Please consider this request, after viewing the thread below. We have also managed to get Dimsport to create a Rapid bike harness so we can use there EVO or Race unit. Thank you for your consideration. <<<<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted August 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2014 I say we send a set of headers to a Chinese manufacture and market our own brand. VFR-R brand !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted August 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well if you could find a manufacturer that would make a good well designed & crafted product, then why not. I'd buy one. You could probably get it in Titanium for the same price as a western stainless unit, that would be another good reason to buy it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gig Posted August 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2014 Cornercarver has a extra two bro header in his garage we could pilfer while he is in Europe and send to Akrapovic or China for a Titanium match>>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfr350 Posted August 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2014 This thread junps to fast to keep up. If its a header only, 98 stock bolt on and exit put me down. Oh no bungs hopefully, material doesnt matter as much probably coating it anyway. Maybe another thread with status only updates keep the engineering ideas going here, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 11, 2014 Cornercarver has a extra two bro header in his garage we could pilfer while he is in Europe and send to Akrapovic or China for a Titanium match>>> We want a stock discharge location... not TBR's discharge location and angleThis thread junps to fast to keep up. If its a header only, 98 stock bolt on and exit put me down. Oh no bungs hopefully, material doesnt matter as much probably coating it anyway. Maybe another thread with status only updates keep the engineering ideas going here, no?O2 Bungs make it more universal for 6th and 8th gens... if you don't use them install plugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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