Member Contributer Mohawk Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 That cat mount connects to a rubber insert in the under cushion on the 2000/2001+ models. It was added because the Cat adds 2Kg of weight to the exhaust & the rear pipe connectors will not support that. As all the performance pipes will be lighter than the 98 pipes & will not have a cat, then it is NOT needed. If anyone feels desperate for that mount, then one they should re think why they are adding an aftermarket system & two, feel free to add a stainless strap around the collector to mount it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 Looks good. The O2 bungs mount on the secondaries after the primary merges. Please let them know we need the stock header discharge location and angle so stock midpipes or existing slipons will work. Do they have the primary, secondary, and collector tubing sizes we agreed? Thank you for handling the communications. As far as tubing sizes he said he received the info (I think Void76 sent it to him) but I'll confirm with him just for good measure. So based on my picture with the circled O2 locations, does that look accurate? I made the locations based on these two photos. post-5100-0-83067500-1406930460.jpg post-5100-0-16886800-1406930396.jpg The picture you made is accurate... I was offering wording to describe the locations. As stated earlier, please confirm Rod has the correct details of the request (diameters, center stand stop, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sa1713 Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would make sure the bung mounts will clear the side fairing. I have a TBR system and actually mounted my PCV bung on the inside as it provided more space for the sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 In case anyone had a question on the mount of the catted pipes. I know the 98 pipe does not have it. I don't think it is needed but possibly may add some support during a crash to avoid damaging heads. Is not for support during a crash but to carry the extra 5 lbs of catalytic converter weight that the rear down tube will not support. Not needed. That cat mount connects to a rubber insert in the under cushion on the 2000/2001+ models. It was added because the Cat adds 2Kg of weight to the exhaust & the rear pipe connectors will not support that. As all the performance pipes will be lighter than the 98 pipes & will not have a cat, then it is NOT needed. If anyone feels desperate for that mount, then one they should re think why they are adding an aftermarket system & two, feel free to add a stainless strap around the collector to mount it that way. I guess I should have read the last page first...hat tip to Mohawk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 OK Guys, you know the drill, measure twice cut once. This is the intended email going out to Rod today. I already sent him a quick email letting him know we'll get back to him with more detail just so he knows how serious we are. Rod,Sorry for the delay. To answer your questions: The header in the top of the picture is the consensus. Note: The rear set of pipes should be similar to those in the photo I am attaching i.e. short "J" primary pipes that connect to the main assembly. (See attached photo) These should attach with springs vice clamps. The O2 bungs will only go on the secondaries after the primaries merge (See attached photo). Exact location and angle will need to be done on the bike I would imagine due to fairing clearance requirements. The idea is that we want the ability to use the stock mid-pipe and muffler or an after market set that uses the stock header exit location. Long story short, need the stock header discharge location and angle along with center stand stop. If you were so inclined to want to make a bolt on set of exhaust cans and mid-pipe, I'm sure their would be a few takers with the header kit as well as a few stand alone sales, if they worked with stock mounting location. As far as the specifications were are looking for, just to confirm the info you already received, this is what we had in mind: Single system to meet the largest number of peoples needs would be lightweight stainless steel, center stand stop, stock angle and placement of the header discharge, O2 bungs, and performance upgrades to include equal length larger ID primaries with small convergent angle collectors (<15 degrees if possible), mimic TBR cylinder connection scheme. Slip on stubs to fit to the heads (with springs) Good designed collectors 18 gauge 304 stainless steel with 1.5" tubing primaries, 1.63" tubing secondaries, 2.0" header collector discharge results in: ~35.6 mm ID primaries ~39 mm ID secondaries ~49mm ID header collector discharge Here's another view of the 98 header that might help with O2 bung locations. Although the location is more of a general area, we can get the exact location off of the stock exhaust on my bike, I can take pictures of that as well. if needed. I have a lot more pictures if needed. See Photobucket album: http://s872.photobucket.com/user/FSSGrp/library/VFR800%20Headers?sort=3&evt=email_share&page=1 Cheers,Darryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would make sure the bung mounts will clear the side fairing. I have a TBR system and actually mounted my PCV bung on the inside as it provided more space for the sensor. Do you also have the center stand? OK Guys, you know the drill, measure twice cut once. This is the intended email going out to Rod today. I already sent him a quick email letting him know we'll get back to him with more detail just so he knows how serious we are. Rod, Sorry for the delay. To answer your questions: The header in the top of the picture is the consensus. Note: The rear set of pipes should be similar to those in the photo I am attaching i.e. short "J" primary pipes that connect to the main assembly. (See attached photo) These should attach with springs vice clamps. ... Cheers, Darryl Looks great! ... one point for clarity, in the first bullet point regarding the rear downpipes it should read springs versus (vs) clamps not springs vice clamps... Damn spell checker :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 Email is on it's way with the last minor correction. Wow, this is getting exciting. Glad I can be a part of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sa1713 Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would make sure the bung mounts will clear the side fairing. I have a TBR system and actually mounted my PCV bung on the inside as it provided more space for the sensor. Do you also have the center stand? OK Guys, you know the drill, measure twice cut once. This is the intended email going out to Rod today. I already sent him a quick email letting him know we'll get back to him with more detail just so he knows how serious we are. Rod, Sorry for the delay. To answer your questions: The header in the top of the picture is the consensus. Note: The rear set of pipes should be similar to those in the photo I am attaching i.e. short "J" primary pipes that connect to the main assembly. (See attached photo) These should attach with springs vice clamps. ... Cheers, Darryl Looks great! ... one point for clarity, in the first bullet point regarding the rear downpipes it should read springs versus (vs) clamps not springs vice clamps... Damn spell checker :) I do have a center stand but had to remove it for the header installation. Once the header was installed, the center stand went back on without issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would make sure the bung mounts will clear the side fairing. I have a TBR system and actually mounted my PCV bung on the inside as it provided more space for the sensor. Do you also have the center stand? OK Guys, you know the drill, measure twice cut once. This is the intended email going out to Rod today. I already sent him a quick email letting him know we'll get back to him with more detail just so he knows how serious we are. Rod, Sorry for the delay. To answer your questions: The header in the top of the picture is the consensus. Note: The rear set of pipes should be similar to those in the photo I am attaching i.e. short "J" primary pipes that connect to the main assembly. (See attached photo) These should attach with springs vice clamps. ... Cheers, Darryl Looks great! ... one point for clarity, in the first bullet point regarding the rear downpipes it should read springs versus (vs) clamps not springs vice clamps... Damn spell checker :) I do have a center stand but had to remove it for the header installation. Once the header was installed, the center stand went back on without issue. Do you have a pic of it installed? Keep in mind we need two O2 bungs, one in each secondary, for those keeping the existing fueling controls or installing RapidBike Tuning controllers... Actually some of the stuff coming out of China is superb now. Just need to find the right manufacturer. Unfortunatly, like many things most western businesses just look for the lowest dollar cost at a passable quality level. We could find an excellent manu with the right skills & HIGH quality, would still be much cheaper than western production cost. But who has the contacts to make it happen, I don't :( My Dad lived in Shanghai for 2.5 years while he was the lead engineer on the construction of a pharmaceutical plant... I emailed him to see if he has any contacts that could put me with a reputable firm. I stressed the need for high quality... he worked with all high end people so if they come back with a recommendation I would be reasonably confident in their level of quality. No go on the Chinese connection from my Dad... The US company that built the facility has long since turned over the reigns to the Chinese and my Dad hasn't kept in touch with the locals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 Duc - Looks great. If I had chimed in earlier I would have suggested that you make the second bullet point under the specs section a requested option, not a firm spec. I know that stubs are easier to mount but it can add another hour or so of skilled labor plus additional materials to the cost (could be $125 up charge) and may push the price for some of those on the fence out of their price range. For me, I want the stubs! that will be VFC (very freaking cool) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 Duc - Looks great. If I had chimed in earlier I would have suggested that you make the second bullet point under the specs section a requested option, not a firm spec. I know that stubs are easier to mount but it can add another hour or so of skilled labor plus additional materials to the cost (could be $125 up charge) and may push the price for some of those on the fence out of their price range. For me, I want the stubs! that will be VFC (very freaking cool) I think that is a very good idea for the few folks who may be using this for high performance or race bikes... if Rod could offer as an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 Duc - Looks great. If I had chimed in earlier I would have suggested that you make the second bullet point under the specs section a requested option, not a firm spec. I know that stubs are easier to mount but it can add another hour or so of skilled labor plus additional materials to the cost (could be $125 up charge) and may push the price for some of those on the fence out of their price range. For me, I want the stubs! that will be VFC (very freaking cool) Rod caught that but I didn't, sorry. He called me to clarify that actually! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 Btw, the O2 sensor bung you need for an Autotune is located in a different location than the OEM O2 sensors, in case you guys wanted to have that option as well... It's a tight fit, so there may be a better position for it, but it needs to be located after all of the pipes have joined. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 IF I would buy this header, I would prefer bungless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dgordon Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 Holy cow this is moving fast. :-) My sincere thanks to all involved with getting it to this point, wonderful work. Rush, I just had a chance to check this thread now, and have seen all the notes back and forth. All questions answered. I'm in for the headers. Very cool. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sa1713 Posted August 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2014 A couple of better shots. JZH uses an Erion header with a tighter radial primary collector than the TBR. TBR v. Erion TBR with O2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 14, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2014 Holy cow this is moving fast. :-) My sincere thanks to all involved with getting it to this point, wonderful work. Rush, I just had a chance to check this thread now, and have seen all the notes back and forth. All questions answered. I'm in for the headers. Very cool. Dave. Glad to have you aboard Dave! I added your name to the list. Thanks for supporting the effort and educating yourself on the details... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klrtovfr Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 does the rapid bike require two sensors? If not it might be better off just doing the one near the exit. I am not sure why anyone would want to remain on stock lean fueling. But if it is a money issue they could just run 02 eliminators until they are ready for pcv/rapidbike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 14, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2014 does the rapid bike require two sensors? If not it might be better off just doing the one near the exit. I am not sure why anyone would want to remain on stock lean fueling. But if it is a money issue they could just run 02 eliminators until they are ready for pcv/rapidbike. The RapidBike takes the input from the stock O2 sensors and alters it to give the ECU what it expects to see. It varies the voltage and the ECU "thinks" it is receiving good data from the sensors... meanwhile, the RapidBike uses the narrow band O2 sensors to provide it info and targets the desired A/F ratio all the while sending the ECU info to trick it. From the first post in the RapidBike group buy thread... "The Evo module is fully capable of auto tuning the fuel map with the factory o2 sensors. The race module is capable of doing this as well plus it has the ability to tune the ignition timing as well." If you have an older 5th gen without sensors you will need the TuneMyBike module for the RapidBike. You can have 4 TMB modules installed and actually tune each cylinder individually by gear if you like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klrtovfr Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 ok well then I would go with what the majority here intend to do. Im assuming those that would actually run 4 sensors would most likely have easy access to a welder to put their own bungs in. 0 for PCV only 1 for Autotune 2 for rapid bike 2 for OEM fueling 4 for rapid bike optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 14, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2014 ok well then I would go with what the majority here intend to do. Im assuming those that would actually run 4 sensors would most likely have easy access to a welder to put their own bungs in. 0 for PCV only 1 for Autotune 2 for rapid bike 2 for OEM fueling 4 for rapid bike optional I was pointing out how the RapidBike works and the abilities of the system... I think it is cool that you can have a different fuel map for each cylinder in each gear... 24 maps! I think there actually is more than that available... I wasn't in anyway implying that the group buy would have 4 O2 bungs. The specs have been submitted for 2 bungs in the stock locations on the secondaries... this provides the greatest versatility for all the VFR800 generations out there and was the majority consensus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 ok well then I would go with what the majority here intend to do. Im assuming those that would actually run 4 sensors would most likely have easy access to a welder to put their own bungs in. 0 for PCV only 1 for Autotune 2 for rapid bike 2 for OEM fueling 4 for rapid bike optional I was pointing out how the RapidBike works and the abilities of the system... I think it is cool that you can have a different fuel map for each cylinder in each gear... 24 maps! I think there actually is more than that available... I wasn't in anyway implying that the group buy would have 4 O2 bungs. The specs have been submitted for 2 bungs in the stock locations on the secondaries... this provides the greatest versatility for all the VFR800 generations out there and was the majority consensus... With the dual mapping switch you have 48 maps... Also which two cylinders get merged in the fifth gen header, sixth gen header and the race header. I know my race header is front and back left together and front and back right Together. Now if I were to have an o2 sensor for each of those two pairs of cylinders would those be different pairs than the ecu used to read? That could be an issue... I'm going to just run one wide band on the mid pipe. I'm pretty sure the factory sixth gen pairing is front left and rear right, correct? I don't don't want to deal with that. I do eventually want to run four o2 sensor though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Well I guess the sixth gen is the same pairing as the race header... Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 14, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2014 ok well then I would go with what the majority here intend to do. Im assuming those that would actually run 4 sensors would most likely have easy access to a welder to put their own bungs in. 0 for PCV only 1 for Autotune 2 for rapid bike 2 for OEM fueling 4 for rapid bike optional I was pointing out how the RapidBike works and the abilities of the system... I think it is cool that you can have a different fuel map for each cylinder in each gear... 24 maps! I think there actually is more than that available... I wasn't in anyway implying that the group buy would have 4 O2 bungs. The specs have been submitted for 2 bungs in the stock locations on the secondaries... this provides the greatest versatility for all the VFR800 generations out there and was the majority consensus... With the dual mapping switch you have 48 maps... Also which two cylinders get merged in the fifth gen header, sixth gen header and the race header. I know my race header is front and back left together and front and back right Together. Now if I were to have an o2 sensor for each of those two pairs of cylinders would those be different pairs than the ecu used to read? That could be an issue... I'm going to just run one wide band on the mid pipe. I'm pretty sure the factory sixth gen pairing is front left and rear right, correct? I don't don't want to deal with that. I do eventually want to run four o2 sensor though... The race header spec we provided has the same cylinder merging pattern as the TBR & Erion Race headers and the 5th gen catless headers... #1 merges with #2 & #3 merges with #4 (front and back left together and front and back right together). Good point on the crossed pairing of the catted bikes... don't know how that will effect the system. A single O2 sensor in the mid-pipe may be too far from the cylinders... the exhaust gases will be cooler and there is more time for O2 to react so the measurement is different the further down stream you go... there is a Goldilock's distance from the cylinders for the O2 sensors, I forget what the range is... probably should go in the final merge collector of the header like JZH & sa1713 showed earlier. Of the 2, JZH's looks like it is in a better orientation to sniff flows from both secondaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 14, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2014 Well I guess the sixth gen is the same pairing as the race header... Interesting. WTF!?!?!?!? Is that right??? The rear J pipes cross over too!!!! I'm confused.... granted that's easy to do... but now I feel like I'm looking at a Mobius strip or an MC Escher stairway... I don't have a 6th gen... can someone with a stock 6th gen header on their bike confirm that the rear J pipes cross over like the picture above? If so, no issues with fueling and the O2 bungs as planned :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.