Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 5, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 5, 2014 Yes they were pushing it calling a 781cc engine an 800. I suppose "rounding" is on their side if you take the hundreds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted November 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2014 Phil, Thank you so much for making this daunting task seem achievable even if my mechanical skills could be contained within one drawer of your tool box. We completed a 5G engine in a 6G gen frame early this year but I have had a spare 5G engine and a strong desire for a 900+CC VFR track bike for a couple of years. That engine is now torn down and my partner in crime and I are looking for capable shops for the cam regrind, block boring and stroking of the crank. An endeavor like yours resets the bar of what is possible and lets everyone ratchet up their imagination for the "lowly" performance orphan VFR. Drop me a line and let me know what you did with the Vtec solenoid wire on your build. We could not get the ECM to fire the bike until we connected it to "something".Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2014 Hi Keith Yes it looks like the ECU looks for the impedance of the VTec solenoid and if it is not there will not allow the bike to start. I spoke to a couple of elecronics guys about some form of replacement for the solenoid coil but they both said that with impedance its probably easier just to put the coil back in situ. So what I did was made up a 3mm aluminium plate that bolts to the mounting face of the solenoid coil itself, removed the valve, and then a bracket fixed to that that is bolted on to the crankcase back where the whole valve would sit in a Gen 6 motor. So I only used the coil. Once you get the Gen 5 motor apart you can see where there are a couple of cast in areas that look like they were originally going to be drilled and tapped for something but are now not used. I blind drilled and tapped them M6 and mounted the solenoid coil and my bracket to those. Loctited the screws in so it should stay there. Seems to be working. Cheers Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted November 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2014 We mounted the coil only (removed the valve also) to the right side of the 6G frame just behind the side fairing as the body must be grounded to complete the circuit and now when my son videos his rides you can hear the solenoid "CLICK" loudly when the tach clears 7k rpm...we crack up as only 4-5 people know what is causing that sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2014 Yes I was thinking about external to the motor but when I found the casting bosses I thought at least it would still be within the normal reach of the cable etc. LMAO about the clicking. What do people say about the unexpected gear whine? I'm getting a few interested looks with mine. No one seems brave enough to come over and ask but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted November 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2014 Hi Keith Yes it looks like the ECU looks for the impedance of the VTec solenoid and if it is not there will not allow the bike to start. I spoke to a couple of elecronics guys about some form of replacement for the solenoid coil but they both said that with impedance its probably easier just to put the coil back in situ. So what I did was made up a 3mm aluminium plate that bolts to the mounting face of the solenoid coil itself, removed the valve, and then a bracket fixed to that that is bolted on to the crankcase back where the whole valve would sit in a Gen 6 motor. So I only used the coil. Once you get the Gen 5 motor apart you can see where there are a couple of cast in areas that look like they were originally going to be drilled and tapped for something but are now not used. I blind drilled and tapped them M6 and mounted the solenoid coil and my bracket to those. Loctited the screws in so it should stay there. Seems to be working. Cheers Phil Awesome stuff Phil. I may have missed it from an earlier post, so you are using the 6th gen ECU with a Rapid Bike module to get your maps and timing working correctly? Great info above, was wondering if you would have to keep a non-vtec type ECU or go ahead and use the 6th with a aftermarket fuel module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2014 My whole idea was to keep it all late model 6th Gen if at all possible and it sure is. Biggest issue is with the 3 wire coil over plug packs, but it's not insurmountable. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted November 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2014 I don't recall seeing any mention (or photo) of which swingarm was used (5th or 6th gen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2014 It's full 6th Gen frame/swingarm wise with the R1 front end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well I've changed the oil and filter after the initial run, just in case of any little gremlins in it, and am running 100% mineral during the break in. Definitely no Synthetic oils during break in. Will give it heaps over the weekend and see how it all goes. For anyone interested, break in should be hard so as you get plenty of cylinder pressure behind the rings to make them seat and seal well. A soft break in will do you no good at all for overall power. Need to accelerate and decelerate hard so as the pressure stays high. Don't flog the motor but build up the rev range heading towards the upper limits over say 500 k But the important thing is to vary the load under accel and decel so as the pressure stays high. I'll let you know how I get on. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted November 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 7, 2014 I would have recommended using quarts of breakin oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 7, 2014 Yes you are probably right but that stuff is quite hard to find in this part of the world. Hence why I'm going with plain old mineral oil. As long as it's not synthetic we should be all OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted November 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well I've changed the oil and filter after the initial run, just in case of any little gremlins in it, and am running 100% mineral during the break in. Definitely no Synthetic oils during break in. Will give it heaps over the weekend and see how it all goes. For anyone interested, break in should be hard so as you get plenty of cylinder pressure behind the rings to make them seat and seal well. A soft break in will do you no good at all for overall power. Need to accelerate and decelerate hard so as the pressure stays high. Don't flog the motor but build up the rev range heading towards the upper limits over say 500 k But the important thing is to vary the load under accel and decel so as the pressure stays high. I'll let you know how I get on. Phil Give it HEAPS!!! Can't wait to hear how it goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2014 Well, got 300 k on the beast today. General twisties riding so as I could get plenty of throttle action. Well, going by the volume of fuel I've had to add to the Rapid Bike Racing map from 6000 rpm on she is making lots more power and breathing sooo much better. To get the My Tuning Bike module to start to work within the range I've set I've had to bump the map by 40% from what the Gen 6 map was. Without this base increase the MTB was adding 10% and it was still way to lean. At 7000 and 50% throttle it would just about buck you off. Back out on the road tomorrow with the laptop in the backpack and do some more. Trying to get it somewhere right up to say 9000 and then I'll let the MTB fine tune it. Once its run in a bit more I'll start to push it up towards the top end. But from what I've felt today, and looking at the metric butt load more fuel I'm pouring in when I get stuck in to it, I think it is going to be a roaring success. Definitely have lost some low down torque but seem to be seeing heaps more in the mid range and by the feel of it up top. I'll post more after tomorrow run. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted November 8, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2014 Thanks Phil, sounds like it's going well. Keep up the reports & enjoy your weekend :) Absolutely chucking it down here so no riding today :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottL Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Thanks Phil, I've been watching this thread for a year now, hugely impressed with your build and skills. It looks and sounds gorgeous! I was going to suggest the CBR 1000 coil sticks until I read you were using the 6G harness. The rest is Candy! I have a set of spare heads I'm thinking of having lightly ported and the PAIR holes welded, then swapping them in. This build is a watermark for everyone! Cheers! Scott I WANT A VFR954! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer apexandy Posted November 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2014 I would also like to chime in and say how much I have been enjoying your motor build Phil! I don't have enough knowledge to add anything but applaud your skills. Same goes for Mohawk and everyone else who adds to the knowledge base here. I look forward to the results of all the hard work! Keep it up. Even if there isn't a ton of people posting I am sure there are hundreds in the same boat as me. Awesome stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rangemaster Posted November 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2014 "So what I did was made up a 3mm aluminium plate that bolts to the mounting face of the solenoid coil itself, removed the valve, and then a bracket fixed to that that is bolted on to the crankcase back where the whole valve would sit in a Gen 6 motor. So I only used the coil." Very clever. Once you get the Gen 5 motor apart you can see where there are a couple of cast in areas that look like they were originally going to be drilled and tapped for something but are now not used. I blind drilled and tapped them M6 and mounted the solenoid coil and my bracket to those. Loctited the screws in so it should stay there. Elegant as hell. Phil, any chance of a pic of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2014 Sorry I don't have a photo of the actual work but I do have these You can see the solenoid and bracket behind the hose going to the thermostat Cheers Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted November 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2014 Those might just be datum bosses for machining. Something to either locate or hold the block while being machined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rangemaster Posted November 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2014 Perfect, thank you very much, was just curious. If it runs half as good as it looks it'll be a missile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted November 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2014 That engine is absolutely beautiful. Too bad it's obscured by bodywork. What a great build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2014 I got another 200 k on her today and from 7000 up it need more fuel, lots more fuel! I've had to drop the ignition advance from 6500 up back to zero and -0.5 degrees to get it to run cleanly so I'd have to say it is definitely breathing better and has more compression than standard with more efficiency in the combustion chamber, going by the faster flame path instigated by the lessening of the advance. I've only got to 9000/9500 at present until I get some more k's on the build but it hits 9k pretty damn quick, now that I have the mapping heading in the right direction. Once I've got the data off my notebook I'll post up a screenshot of the maps. Keep in mine that these maps are on a 5th Gen engine using 6th Gen electronics, plus all the mods internally, so they will not be of use to anyone else. I'm just thinking of the extra fuel going in as a rough guide to power out. Must say that once I got to grips with the My Tuning Bike device it is a great tool. I'm currently running it limited to 5500 upwards at AFR 13.2. Enriched the top half of the map quite significantly manually so as I didn't get into a super lean situation and then set the MTB +15/-10 and let it rip. The map is getting close and the bike is pretty smooth overall on fuel delivery. Just have to get used to getting it off the line cleanly without the extra low end torque that the VTec had. Cheers Phil One happy camper!! YoshiHNS The bosses are fully cast on the inside with a 20mm long protrusion into the crankcase area. Hence why I say they were there for machining and are no longer used. The shape lends itself to bolting an oil line on or similar to the way the cooler lines connect to the sides of the sump. I blind drilled and tapped the smaller of the bosses and finished the tapping of with a bottoming tap without breaking thru in to the crankcase. So no oil leaks etc. Cogswell Thanks for the complement. Greatly appreciated. Yep would look better as a street fighter but I like my bodywork! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2014 Here is the injection map after my couple of days work. The WOT areas still need to be trimmed as I haven't gone there yet. As can be seen there is a whole lot more fuel needed once it starts to come on to the cam at about 7000 rpm And this is the ignition map and without the top end retarded I couldn't pull cleanly past 6000/6500 rpm As I stated earlier, please do not use this information as it is specific to a 5th Gen engine using 6th Gen electronics and the engine is quite modified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 What are the cam specs that you wound up going with?? How much extra duration and lift and how much extra over lap did you dial in?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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