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New 5th/6th/8th gen performance header now in production in USA


sfdownhill

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On 8/18/2021 at 3:04 PM, Ziffer said:

 

 

 

I'd be pretty damn interested if there was ever another batch run. Honestly, it's kinda outside my budget right now. I have other priorities. But, if the chance came up, I'd prolly throw money at it. I want 'em bad. The guys I ride with all have pure sport bikes. they are all fast, but I love my VFR. I also hit up MrSquiggle, but he hasn't answered

Apologies for the slack response time Ziffer. I’ve answered your PM. 

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On 8/10/2021 at 4:17 AM, ae86andkp61 said:


It looks like I missed out; but I’m totally committed for the next batch for my 6th gen!
 

I messaged MrSqiggle a few weeks ago about buying the uninstalled set he has for sale on these forums (even though shipping from Oz would likely be expensive) but it seems he hasn’t logged in for over a month. 😩


Apologies for not getting back to you sooner ae86andkp61, I’ve answered your PM. 

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So the run of 5th/6th gen VFRD headers were all the same, right? So any of that run will fit a 5th gen or a 6th gen, right? There weren't some built for 5th gens, and some tweaked for 6th gens, right? Trying to be sure I understand this correctly.

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The only difference between the 5 gen headers and the 6 gen headers is the 6 gens have 5/8” cut off their collector exit pipe to allow the complex 6 gen midpipe/dual muffler assembly to fit.

 

Having just installed a set of 6 gen mufflers on these headers, I’m thinking we should have cut off 3/4”...maybe even 7/8”. Any other 6 gen owners think a little bit shorter collector exit would have been a better fit?

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2 hours ago, sfdownhill said:

The only difference between the 5 gen 

 

Having just installed a set of 6 gen mufflers on these headers, I’m thinking we should have cut off 3/4”...maybe even 7/8”. Any other 6 gen owners think a little bit shorter collector exit would have been a better fit?

 Not here. Actually if they were not cut off at all I'd probably be fine with it.  It's easier to remove material than to add more.  FWIW I  have Remus cans and midpipe. Each brand / type is probably somewhat different.  I'd thought about moving these to my G5 once the 8th headers go on to accommodate other mods, but it's not clear to me that they'll fit up to the G5 midpipe / can having been cut.  Who knows  - maybe I'll be in for a G5 set if another batch is run. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I've managed to locate an unused header to buy...Mr Squiggle came through and I'm quite excited! Thanks for the help, everyone! Now I've just got to figure out how to tune it....leaning towards the My Tuning Bike as it seems to have some great features, but the Power Commander may not be as capable, but it is so well-known and well-supported, that it has some appeal as well.

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The main advantage of RB over PC is that RB can adjust fueling on the fly to maintain the target AFR whereas PC cannot  (even with Autotune).  The latter requires trial and error to create what is still a fixed map.  OTOH RB software is not as user friendly - the documentation is translated from Italian. I'm in no way bashing it, but it is a steeper learning curve vs PC.  If you're running it on a  G6, IMHO the cable for the wideband O2 sensor is too short. I bought a 3 foot extension cable and it's been fine.  Also,  you'll be keeping your 2 stock O2 sensors (I have no idea why), so on a G6 you'll have a total of 3.  IMO the RB tune without the MTB was better,  the target AFR in the MTB map I think it's a bit lean.  Over the winter I need to learn how to create multiple maps and adjust AFR targets to get it just right.  

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10 hours ago, ae86andkp61 said:

I've managed to locate an unused header to buy...Mr Squiggle came through and I'm quite excited! Thanks for the help, everyone! Now I've just got to figure out how to tune it....leaning towards the My Tuning Bike as it seems to have some great features, but the Power Commander may not be as capable, but it is so well-known and well-supported, that it has some appeal as well.


Glad to hear it, ae86andkp61. I’m with you on the RB vs PC - I’m  considering going from my current PC3 to RB w MTB when I do velocity stack and airbox mods on my 5 gen. Yaman is the man at RB USA, and there are a number of members here that he’s helped with setting up AFR maps for their RB systems, so that’s a consideration.

 

9 hours ago, Cogswell said:

Also,  you'll be keeping your 2 stock O2 sensors (I have no idea why), so on a G6 you'll have a total of 3.  IMO the RB tune without the MTB was better,  the target AFR in the MTB map I think it's a bit lean.  Over the winter I need to learn how to create multiple maps and adjust AFR targets to get it just right.  


Cogswell, my understanding is that it’s not so

critical to keep the OEM O2 sensors with RB if you’re running MTB. Without MTB, the OEM sensors send O2 sensor readings to RB, which then communicates with the ECU to manage fueling. MTB takes over those duties when installed. What I’m not certain about is whether it’s important to have the RB connected to the OEM O2 sensor connectors going to the wire harness/ECU if you’re running MTB, or if MTB negates the need for OEM O2 sensors altogether. It’s a good question for Yaman at RB USA; as mentioned above, he’s a great resource for assistance when setting up a RB system, with or without MTB.

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1 hour ago, sfdownhill said:


Glad to hear it, ae86andkp61. I’m with you on the RB vs PC - I’m  considering going from my current PC3 to RB w MTB when I do velocity stack and airbox mods on my 5 gen. Yaman is the man at RB USA, and there are a number of members here that he’s helped with setting up AFR maps for their RB systems, so that’s a consideration.

 


Cogswell, my understanding is that it’s not so

critical to keep the OEM O2 sensors with RB if you’re running MTB. Without MTB, the OEM sensors send O2 sensor readings to RB, which then communicates with the ECU to manage fueling. MTB takes over those duties when installed. What I’m not certain about is whether it’s important to have the RB connected to the OEM O2 sensor connectors going to the wire harness/ECU if you’re running MTB, or if MTB negates the need for OEM O2 sensors altogether. It’s a good question for Yaman at RB USA; as mentioned above, he’s a great resource for assistance when setting up a RB system, with or without 

 

Here's a shot of the MTB installation instructions. Note that it says to retain the stock O2s and cautions that it may not work correctly without them.  It seems to imply that the Racing module needs that input regardless of whether a MTB is installed or not.   Seems like they could develop a Racing module that could read a wideband sensor directly. 

 

20210907_083814.thumb.jpg.e0fcbcc5b537060ce7698bae0c1ee0c5.jpg

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Cogswell said:

Here's a shot of the MTB installation instructions. Note that it says to retain the stock O2s and cautions that it may not work correctly without them.  It seems to imply that the Racing module needs that input regardless of whether a MTB is installed or not.   Seems like they could develop a Racing module that could read a wideband sensor directly. 


Thanks for that info Cogswell. And yikes - my headers don’t have bungs for the OEM O2 sensors. Plus they’re already ceramic coated. Dang. Well, it’s just another of those puzzles we solve when modding our VFRs.

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On 8/24/2021 at 4:21 PM, Ziffer said:

Well, that's three...only 17 more to go...*sigh*

 

 

 

I would be seriously interested in a VFRD 8th gen header, missed out on all this forum talk, wish I would have paid more attention earlier the last year and a half, but I couldn’t figure out the email to confirm my account. 😭

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On 9/7/2021 at 12:26 PM, sfdownhill said:

my headers don’t have bungs for the OEM O2 sensor

You could always add them. Adding O2 sensor bungs aren't foreign to most welding/exhaust shops. I added one per cylinder ~4-5 inches downstream from each exhaust port on my WiLD set.

Made adjusting AFR's a lot more predictable for my guy.

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My headers arrived unscathed! Mr. Squiggle did a very thorough job of packing, and he even threw in all the hardware, gaskets, and aluminum Sebspeed center stand stop that he had collected for the header! 😆 Due to the fact that now is coming into some of our best riding here (cool mornings/evenings, warm afternoons, mountain roads open and clear, many days still sunny) and due to a lot of my spare funds currently going to my Suzuki Cappuccino restoration project, I will probably install these and work on a tuning solution sometime this winter.

 

Here's a few photos of the big sturdy box, and the headers out of the box on the kitchen floor. And before someone asks, yes, that is a dirt bike wheel in the front entry of my place. 😜

 

VFRHeader04.JPG

VFRHeader03.JPG

VFRHeader01.JPG

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Hurray!!!!! After waiting since April 03rd, mostly due to Portuguese customs, I am very happy to share I have received my headers 😝

Super Thanks to Darryl (Duc2V4) & Lance (sfdownhill) for making this possible!!!!591924536_WhatsAppImage2021-09-22at10_37.52copy.thumb.jpg.b7436e67ec73459b62430dacc846a415.jpg

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On 9/22/2021 at 2:55 AM, Resina said:

Hurray!!!!! After waiting since April 03rd, mostly due to Portuguese customs, I am very happy to share I have received my headers 😝

Super Thanks to Darryl (Duc2V4) & Lance (sfdownhill) for making this possible!!!!591924536_WhatsAppImage2021-09-22at10_37.52copy.thumb.jpg.b7436e67ec73459b62430dacc846a415.jpg


So glad they finally made it Francisco! What an ordeal it was getting USPS and Portuguese customs to coordinate...whew. Keep us apprised of your install and tuning. Cheers!

 

 

11 hours ago, zinsern said:

Great work guys! If there is a waiting list in the works for the next run, please put me down for a set of 8th gen headers 😊

 

Hi zinsern - there is no telling if it will happen, but will let you know if it does.

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So my headers almost wrecked someone else's bike last night... 😂

 

I was following two sport bikes from a left turn lane into an entrance ramp, from 50 yards or so.  With the headers and Delkevics, when VTEC kicks in the bike goes from a V-8 rumble to a shrieking V-4 race bike sound.  When it switched on one of the riders (clearly now a beginner) did a big, swerving-S panic stop with no idea what was going on... 🤦‍♂️
 

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For the fifth gen guys.....what slip on are you running and did you have any difficulty widening the pipe to fit the increased diameter of the VFRD header?  I have a low slung Yoshimura for touring purposes.  Not only is it too quiet but it tore a bit when the hydraulic pipe expander was used.  Thanks.

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Not on a 5th gen - but on my G6 I had the same issue with the midpipe - a small crack began to appear just as it got sized enough to fit over the header.  It was right at the clamp location - there are two bungs, one threaded, that draws the pipe down tight.  I had a good tech doing it, just barely touching the control on the machine as it expanded - we test fit it a number of times.  The split is small, has not propagated any further since and has been fine.  It was at the very limit - if the header were any larger it would have needed surgery to adapt it.   One thing for sure - there's no going back to the stock header now with that midpipe. 

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My Delkevic mid pipe expanded just fine, no cracks or tearing.  The way Delkevic carbon copies things, I suspect the 5th gen mid pipe will be exactly the same pipe as what my 6th gen has. 

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I went to a guy with 40+ years in the exhaust business. We probably spent 30min and countless passes, just working the expansion of my Staintune ever so slightly with each pass. Gotta’ be super-delicate with doing it. 

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Common 304ss isn't as ductile as 1020/1022 mild-steel which is what most muffler shops deal with.

 

Best to pre-heat pipe with oxy-acetylene torch before expanding... about 450-500C. In between stress-relieving to annealing temps. Especially if it was orginally made from seamed tubing. Need to keep heating during expansion because it will work-harden. Due to higher amount of springback, you'll want to measure as it's expanding and account for this. Do in single pass. More than one cycle with test-fit will most likely cause crack.

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2 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

Common 304ss isn't as ductile as 1020/1022 mild-steel which is what most muffler shops deal with.

 

Best to pre-heat pipe with oxy-acetylene torch before expanding... about 450-500C. In between stress-relieving to annealing temps. Especially if it was orginally made from seamed tubing. Need to keep heating during expansion because it will work-harden. Due to higher amount of springback, you'll want to measure as it's expanding and account for this. Do in single pass. More than one cycle with test-fit will most likely cause crack.


Thanks for this, Dano, it’s very helpful.

 

We’ve expanded 5 or 6 midpipes now, always done by Wade (the guy who makes our headers) in his shop, and have not had any splits. The commercially manufactured midpipes - Staintune and Yoshimura - had 3 or 4 slots where they fit over the headers. Wade cut slots into the custom midpipes too, and none of them split - not sure if it was the slots, technique, or materials that helped us avoid splits.

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On my 6g I have thin wall Micron ss mid pipe with several relief slots on the end. The muffler guy I took it to said that there is no way he is touching it with his hydraulic expander. 

He suggested cutting the mid pipe and welding a larger i.d. piece on.

I wasn't keen on that idea so I got a manual pipe expansion set and gave that a go. 

Just as the pipe was expanding a small split formed from one of the relief slots.

So the end result was to weld that larger piece on to suit and so far so good.

 

Ymmv

good luck

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