kc5555 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Have the front end off to check lower tree for straightness (not sure how to do this) On reassembly, any tips on tightening stem, i dont have the notched socket, using a small wrench tool from old cb toolkit. Read about cracked frames, various torque specs etc (mines a 5th gen), do not want to mess it up Can this be done by feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Get a spare socket of the correct diameter, and cut it to include the notches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted March 24, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted March 24, 2012 :+1: I used a Dremel with a cut off wheel to go the home-brew socket route. To establish the cut lines I put the socket over the locknut and marked the notches and then did the layout with painter's tape. It's not pretty, but it was cheap and works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Made mine with a 4" angle grinder and a zipcut disc. Like Curry said, I used the nut and transferred the notches to the socket and then cut cut cut until it fit, going slowly and checking often. Now I can use a torque wrench to tighten the stem bearings as the FSM dictates. 18 ft/lbs for standard round roller bearings IIRC. I use only 5 though as I have tapered bearings and at 18 they are stiff. But I still use that setting to initially seat them upon install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelman Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Having a custom socket is great, but you don't need much in the way of tools to get to 18ft.-lbs, just a drift or 3/8" extension and a hammer to turn the nut after you've tightened by hand as far as possible. Using just the proppa tool is best if you have it, but improvization works too. Yes, it can be done by feel, and you need to be aware that if it's too tight, it will cause the bike to weave left-to-right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I think that it should only be done by feel. It is very easy to over-tighten the bearings on a vfr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I think that it should only be done by feel. It is very easy to over-tighten the bearings on a vfr. I agree, but only when it applies to installing tapered roller bearings. Standard ball bearings need more tension to work properly, and last as long as they're supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Yes, it can be done by feel, and you need to be aware that if it's too tight, it will cause the bike to weave left-to-right. Really? Mine feels like it weaves all the time. I figured it was the profile of the front tire........I have tapered bearings in it too. Maybe I over tightened them when I installed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer IntAceptor Posted March 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted March 28, 2012 Taper rollers should be about 5 pounds or so. I am not sure of the exact # on VFR tapers but it is a lot less than rollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted March 28, 2012 Forum CEO Share Posted March 28, 2012 If you have a fishing scale or similar you can test the pull on the handle bars its supposed to be around 2.2 to 3.3 lbs of pull (wrap a strap around the right fork and pull) - its it more then loose the head bearing, too little then tighten. Should be the same spec for both roller and ball bearings, since this is the amount of force it take to move the handle bars - which is the ultimate goal here. A jack under the headers to lift the front wheel off the ground first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer IntAceptor Posted March 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted March 28, 2012 I got off my lazy butt and looked it up. According to the Honda manual the torque for ball bearings is 18 ft/lbs. I think it is because the contact surface area of a ball bearing in its race is considerably less than that of a tapered roller bearing and more force is needed to keep things proper tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So why does overtight bearings cause the bike to weave? I don't understand that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So why does overtight bearings cause the bike to weave? I don't understand that part. Same reason countsteering works.......... when it goes to one side it's to tight and the bike starts to cs until there's enough force to move it the other way, and back and forth....... My old BMW (72) had a dampener knob that could be adjusted on the fly and would do that till I loosened it a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yes, it can be done by feel, and you need to be aware that if it's too tight, it will cause the bike to weave left-to-right. Really? Mine feels like it weaves all the time. I figured it was the profile of the front tire........I have tapered bearings in it too. Maybe I over tightened them when I installed them. Yep, truth! 5 ft/lbs for tapereds, 18 ft/lbs for balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thGen316 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yes, it can be done by feel, and you need to be aware that if it's too tight, it will cause the bike to weave left-to-right. Really? Mine feels like it weaves all the time. I figured it was the profile of the front tire........I have tapered bearings in it too. Maybe I over tightened them when I installed them. I had the same issue when I had my 5th gen. I adjusted that thing from loose to tight and never got it to stop weaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I think when you add the two together you can come up with a, "won't go away problem"........ 1st you have a bad tracking issue, to do with the forks/bearings whatever, and while this is going on it f 'n up the tyre, so when you finally get the top end fixed, you're still riding around on the f 'd up tyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amra1 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Opening up an older topic but wanted to take a moment and thank all the posters in this thread. This post lead to me fixing a problem I didn’t realize I had and should have checked sooner. Since I picked up the bike I always felt as if the front end was ‘loose’ and I attributed a lot of it to me learning the bike. Low speeds were the worst; I felt like it was ‘dropping’ into a turn and counter steering was a chore, constantly felt like I was fighting it. Even leaning into corners wasn’t as confident as I would have liked. I had already checked the wheel alignment and adjusted the fork tubes (they were off about .130”) last summer when I started riding the bike. So after reading everyone’s comments here I pulled the risers lifted the triple and when I got to the adjustment nut I bent the lock tabs back and the adjustment nut spun in my hands; not at all what I had hoped to find but glad I did. The bearings were fine, not sure if the PO replaced them and never set the torque or what happened but I set the tension with the fish scale/fork tube method. Wow what a difference in handling it made. I don’t feel like the bike is getting ahead of me anymore at low speed and corners at speed feel a ton more stable. One other thing I’ve noticed my right wrist isn’t going numb as easily as it would before; that alone was worth it. I must have been getting some terrible underlying vibration through the steering. So thanks again VFRD! Good riding to everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted August 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 28, 2012 The question: How do you adjust the torque on the steering head bearings? Background: I've read through a few threads about replacing the steering head bearings with the tapered All Balls ones. I'm not ready to jump into that amount of work right now. I do have a shimmy at about 50mph and I would like to tweak my steering head bearings to see if it helps. The FSM doesn't really have a procedure to adjust the bearings - just to RE and RE the whole assembly which involves removing the forks, using a new lock washer etc. If I just want to play with the torque on the steering bearings, what is the minimum amount of dissassemble/reassembly I need to do to get at the correct adjusting nut? How reusable is the lock washer with its tabs you have to bend to secure the adjusting nut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted August 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 28, 2012 On a 5th gen you have to pull the steering head cover to get at the adjusting nuts. That entails removing the handlebars and steering cover nut. I reused the tabbed lock washer when I redid mine with tapered roller bearings, so it can be done. I would say you could probably reuse it three or four times. Have you checked to see if the races are pitted? I mean raise the front end and see if you can feel anything when the forks are pivoted. Mine was really obvious, but I had no wobble except on deceleration, and even then it wasn't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted August 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 28, 2012 Mine feels OK through the whole steering travel - no play to speak of when I try to move the forks front to back either. Such a pain to remove handlebars and top bridge just to get at the adjusting nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted August 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 28, 2012 The procedure I've used with success, is to tighten the nut down by hand until there is no play when you tug on the forks. Then, while turning the forks side to side, tighten the nut more until you feel resistance to turning building up in the bearings. (Note - Resistance should be smooth - not jerky, binding kind, in which case, you do need new bearing). At this point, you back the nut off to the first available position for the lock washer to be installed. Check for resistance while turning - There shouldn't be any. Nor should there be any play in the bearings when tugging on the forks. Lock washer is reusable. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted August 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 28, 2012 [...]home-brew socket[...] Can someone confirm the socket size needed to make this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted August 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 28, 2012 OK looks like the mods have been cleaning up the threads/posts and have combined everything into this thread - thanks, I think. Having done some more research, I question the value of these homemade or aftermarket steering nut socket tools. It seems to me that you need to snug that nut down finger tight plus up to a 1/4 turn more until the lock washer tabs can be lined up and bent up and down to lock the nut in place. What is the point of torquing it with any sort of special tool if you then have to move the nut one way or another to get it to line up with the tabs of the lock ring anyway? Might as well use a C Spanner or tap it with a screwdriver and hammer I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted August 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 28, 2012 What is the point of torquing it with any sort of special tool if you then have to move the nut one way or another to get it to line up with the tabs of the lock ring anyway? Might as well use a C Spanner or tap it with a screwdriver and hammer I'd say. No point IMHO and srewdriver/hammer will work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted August 29, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 29, 2012 I tightened up my steering head bearing last night. I had noticed before that under hard braking I could feel and hear the front end chatter. That was my first clue that the bearings were too loose. I jacked up the front end last night and jostled the forks to get a feel for the amount of free play in the bearings - quite a bit. I removed the handlebars and top bridge (which is a pain with the Powerlet in there). When I bent down the lock tabs I found the lock nut completely loose. The adjusting nut was snug though. I don't have a proper tool (yet) so I tapped the adjusting nut tighter with a screwdriver and hammer. I'd tap it tighter a bit then check for how much front-to-back free play they was in the forks with the front end jacked up and by yanking on the bottom of the forks. In the end I was hammering very hard on the screwdriver to get the nut to turn just a little and eventually gave up because I was damaging the nut too much. There's still some free play in the forks. In my experience, bearings are set properly when there's no free play and smooth operation. Well, they're smooth still throughout the range of motion of the steering but there's still some free play I don't like. My guess is that I cannot get enough torque on the nut with the screwdriver/hammer method to cinch down the bearings properly. The spec is 18 lbf-ft which should be awfully easy to achieve with the screwdriver and hammer tapping method but I have not been able to completely eliminate the free play. I've ordered one of these to help with making adjustments in the future - Cycledude's (Mike Judnic) Honda steering stem nut socket tool: http://www.ridersral...php?f=4&t=24212 What's the consensus here on fork front-to-back free play? Should there be a little or none at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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