Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted August 29, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 29, 2012 No front-to-back free play whatsoever. You should be able to get the free play out of there without any undue amount of torque on the adjusting nut. The bearing is a slip fit on the steering stem and should move fairly easily, so you should be able to get rid of any movement. If you can't there is a problem somewhere and needs to be checked out ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted August 29, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 29, 2012 No front-to-back free play whatsoever. You should be able to get the free play out of there without any undue amount of torque on the adjusting nut. The bearing is a slip fit on the steering stem and should move fairly easily, so you should be able to get rid of any movement. If you can't there is a problem somewhere and needs to be checked out ASAP. :+1: No free play and you should be able to get rid of free play while tightening by hand or one or two light taps on the nut with the screwdriver. Judging by your description, you need new bearings. Top and bottom. I'd bite the bullet now if I were you. It isn't a difficult or expensive job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 17, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2012 I ordered a set of AllBalls Racing tapered bearings and I'll install them when they come in. Before I committed to buying these, I wanted to see if I could get the free play out of my front end by torquing down the steering head bearings a bit more than the punch and hammer method now that I have a special socket tool that fits the adjusting nut. Well I ended up cranking them down a lot with my special adjusting nut tool, socket wrench.... and breaker bar extension. I never did get the free play out despite really torquing them down. I was convinced that I should be able to eliminate the free play. When the adjusting nut was torqued down super tightly, the steering was far too stiff and I could feel the infamous notch. Clearly the bearings are shot and I'm glad I have the AllBalls Racing set on order. I have backed off the adjusting nut to make the steering feel normal again and, of course, still have front end play. In hindsight, after reading some more, I suppose I'm lucky that I didn't crack the bearing race seats in the steering head of the frame. That would be pretty much catastrophic and would require a new frame since I don't have the wherewithal to repair an aluminum frame. Phew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah, don't overtorque the bearings beyond the spec in the manual. Ralph did that and cracked his frame. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 17, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2012 Is it obvious when the frame cracks? Can you hear it? How can't be sure I didn't crack mine? What did Ralph do about his cracked frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah, don't overtorque the bearings beyond the spec in the manual. Ralph did that and cracked his frame. Ouch. Speaking of that, Tok cracked his frame because he mistakenly used the ball bearing torque spec while installing tapered roller bearings. So, based on the previous posts here, it's probably a good time to reiterate that the torque value from the manual should NOT be used when changing to tapered rollers! Snug by hand and not much more is all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Akshully Seb, he was following a procedure he read on the 'net for seating the races square in the frame by preloading the bearings to a high value, like 50 ft/lbs or so. Unfortunately, it was a 30-40 year old "tip" meant for steel-framed motorcycles. He heard a loud SNAP, and the torque wrench went limp. He had to weld up the inside of the steering tube, then machine it back to standard dimensions. Not easy. Good thing he's a machinist by trade. As for final seating of races in an aluminum VFR frame, After driving them in with a bearing race tool, I myself torque to the factory spec (18 ft/lbs) then rotate the triple clamps full left/right/left several times, torque again to 18, rotate the clamps, and repeat until there is no movement on the wrench before it clicks at 18. I never go beyond the factory spec and then, if they are tapered bearings, they need to be backed off to about 5 ft/lbs or so for a final value. Otherwise if they are too tight, you will have a low speed weave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Well, I stand corrected then. It has been a while since we've heard from Ralph. May be personal choice since you haven't broken anything using the fsm spec, I just go hand tight + 1/4 turn or so to seat the races. Safer than my old method, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 17, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'm guessing the 6th gen steering head part of the frame is just a lot stronger now than the previous gens - i was really reefing on the breaker bar to try to get rid of free play. Definately I was lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyspanner Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Akshully Seb, he was following a procedure he read on the 'net for seating the races square in the frame by preloading the bearings to a high value, like 50 ft/lbs or so. Unfortunately, it was a 30-40 year old "tip" meant for steel-framed motorcycles. He heard a loud SNAP, and the torque wrench went limp. He had to weld up the inside of the steering tube, then machine it back to standard dimensions. Not easy. Good thing he's a machinist by trade. As for final seating of races in an aluminum VFR frame, After driving them in with a bearing race tool, I myself torque to the factory spec (18 ft/lbs) then rotate the triple clamps full left/right/left several times, torque again to 18, rotate the clamps, and repeat until there is no movement on the wrench before it clicks at 18. I never go beyond the factory spec and then, if they are tapered bearings, they need to be backed off to about 5 ft/lbs or so for a final value. Otherwise if they are too tight, you will have a low speed weave. I've just ordered a set of head bearing for my bike (All Balls) and wanted to know what tools are best to get for fitting, specifically what is a "bearing race tool" and image would be nice as well. Slowly building a tool kit is an expensive hobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted September 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 20, 2012 This one was recommended to me and I picked it up yesterday. It is on sale a HF for $30 http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piece-bearing-race-and-seal-driver-set-95853.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 20, 2012 Let us know if it works. I'm skeptical. From what I've read, the lower race has a tiny protruding lip that's difficult for anything to get purchase on. That tool set's handle is pretty short and likely won't reach all the way down from the top of the steering head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted September 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 20, 2012 It was recommended for front wheel bearings... I haven't unpacked it yet (just got it yesterday). It says the handle is 5.4" long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 That driver set is good for IN-stalling bearings. Although it is limited by the sizes of the attachments. Sockets work good too, if you have a large selection, and find one just slightly smaller than the OD of the bearing. Removing them, especially the steering head bearing races, is better left to a long slender punch, and a gentle hand with a BFH. What I did was to section the OLD races by cutting a slot in them with a cutoff wheel, and using them to tap in the new races. That way, with the slot in them, they don't get stuck in the hole, on top of the new races. Works great for wheel bearings too. Cut through the old bearings, deburr the outer race, instant perfect sized driver!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 20, 2012 Um, Veefer buddy, kinda looks like you got a nice homemade race reemer there in the bottom pic just to the left of the bearing tool kit. Fess up - did you make/borrow a jig to get the races out of the steering head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 20, 2012 I might make one of these: To tap out the old bearing races like this guy did. This ST1100 thread talks about a kit one could borrow to do this job. That seems like a stellar idea. The thread seems to pretty much hit dead ends for me. I was thinking of joining the ST forum just to get a hold of this guy to see if the set can still be borrowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Um, Veefer buddy, kinda looks like you got a nice homemade race reemer there in the bottom pic just to the left of the bearing tool kit. Fess up - did you make/borrow a jig to get the races out of the steering head? That's an old, spare (possibly bent?) VFR800 swingarm pivot bolt. I ground the end on a 45' angle to make a tool to tap out the old bearing races. A long slender punch would be best, but I didn't have one handy at the time, and decided to make something that would work. A piece of 3/8" or 1/2" iron pipe would do just as well, if you bevelled the end on a 45' angle and make it sort of sharp-ish to catch the exposed backsides of the race(s), where the frame has cutouts for tapping same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 All I've ever used is a piece of 1/4" stainless rod and a hammer. And the old races. For removal and installation. Guess I just have the touch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 25, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 25, 2012 I worry that the tapping, on each edge, will cause wear of the race journal due to cocking the race sideways a bit with each tap. Same with taping it in using the old races etc. As long as your tapping one side then the other, it's gonna put an offsetting force on each side jamming it into the side of the race journal. This looks like it might work for removing the races. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 That looks like it would work great. As for the tapping, I never hammer one side until it stops moving, then go to the other one. I give one side a little tap, move to the other side, etc. You really don't want to jam it sideways, so tapping evenly is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 like it might work for removing the races. Thoughts? Yes, it looks similar to the tool shown in the Honda Tool manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 27, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 27, 2012 Generally all the Honda steering heads are the same. Check out this thread on the Goldwing. The guy makes a homemade bearing driver using a large washer that he grinds to fit in between the race and the stem to drive it out. Granted the VFR has an aluminum frame and that old Goldwing has a steel frame but from what I've read, there is a lip and a bit of a gap above the lower race on our VFRs that tools like drifts can catch directly. I'm thinking the Pit Posse tool might work nicely. It has a minimum opening of 29mm. Will that fit through the race? As I understand it the races are different sizes. Can someone confirm if the lower race has a 29mm opening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted September 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2012 Well I think I found the info posted here: [...]The lower steering stem bearing is identical to the Honda (ID/OD = 30/55mm)[...] So I think I'm gonna get one of those Pit Posse tools as it will fit - with it's minimum size of 29mm - up through the race which is a wider opening that the bearing's ID of 30mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted October 6, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2012 How much should I change the fork height to account for the All-Balls tapered bearings versus the stock bearings? Update: I got the old races out just using a screwdriver as a drift. There's two large openings in the race seats to access them so it was easier than I thought. I thoroughly inspected my race seats and don't see any cracking - I was worried after reefing on them like an idiot (read above posts) that I might have damaged them. I guess I was lucky. I'll post some photos later for the record for future peeps trying to figure this out. I seated the new tapered races using the old stock races. This is necessary as the new races go farther into the steering head than flush - they are recessed into the stem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 None, as the bearings ought to be the same size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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