Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 If you put your phone in a waterproof case, how are you going to interact with it? Most major carriers require that all smartphones on the network have a data plan. That's a monthly fee, regardless if you're using data or not. There might be ways to work around it on GSM networks, but the average person wouldn't be able to do it. Guess we'd have to be specific about models. My TomTom One (<$100) is incredibly responsive to my touch inputs, whether it is crunching something or not. Can't imagine needing anything more. GPS batteries on average don't last all day. Maybe around 4-5 hours on average across all models. Still some out there that will last all day. That's still phone battery life that gets saved. And smartphone batteries are (more or less) good for a day or two on normal use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Solomoto Posted October 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 Copilot has awesome routing in comparison and you have choices because of competition between the navigation app vendors. Sky, you're quite in sync with GPS tools, what routing tools are compatible with Co Pilot? I've already bought Co Pilot NA and maps, quite the application and no on-line map dependency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Solomoto Posted October 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 I am just a person that likes to have a dedicated device that does one or two jobs well because that's what it's designed for, instead of a device that tries to be a jack of all trades and does most of it's tasks with mediocrity. A perfect example is trying to use an iPad or other similar device as a book reader. Dedicated book readers are 1000% better than anything else that tries to display ebooks. It occurred to me that the smartphone is analogous to the VFR. If you have to own just one motorcycle, the VFR comes pretty close to checking all the boxes, the jack of all trades if you will. Same for the smartphone, it's not tops in any one category for which there is a standalone equivalent (but the CoPilot GPS comes damn close). The trade-offs are well in favor of the smartphone. Smartphone development is early stages, you will see more features and capability in the coming years. But even what is available today in a single device is unimaginable only a few years ago. As good as single function devices are, it is no contest when it comes to the power and versatility of a smartphone. Jack of all trades indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viffer88 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Call me a caveman, but I don't have/don't want a smartphone or any cell phone with a monthly plan. Firstly, it doesn't fit into my budget and secondly, I have no use for it. I have a pre-pay phone that I can use for $1/day when I'm on the road, and the number doesn't change. Last time I checked out pricing, you could lay out around 2-300+ for a phone, then $80-100/month for the data plan for 2 years. So at minimum you're spending over $2000 for a convenience. I paid $140(IIRC) for my Nuvi 750, and $20 for my pre-paid cell phone. In 4 years when I'm ready to replace both of them (if I feel like stepping up to new technology), I can buy a new phone, a new gps, AND another bike!! Don't get me wrong, I think smartphones are really cool. I just feel cooler with cash in my pocket vs a phone in my pocket... Your analysis makes perfect sense. Maybe I should consider getting rid of my DROID2. But then what am I going to do on the train to work w/o my stupic time killer games? read a book?! haven't done that since college! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 I am just a person that likes to have a dedicated device that does one or two jobs well because that's what it's designed for, instead of a device that tries to be a jack of all trades and does most of it's tasks with mediocrity. A perfect example is trying to use an iPad or other similar device as a book reader. Dedicated book readers are 1000% better than anything else that tries to display ebooks. It occurred to me that the smartphone is analogous to the VFR. If you have to own just one motorcycle, the VFR comes pretty close to checking all the boxes, the jack of all trades if you will. Same for the smartphone, it's not tops in any one category for which there is a standalone equivalent (but the CoPilot GPS comes damn close). The trade-offs are well in favor of the smartphone. Smartphone development is early stages, you will see more features and capability in the coming years. But even what is available today in a single device is unimaginable only a few years ago. As good as single function devices are, it is no contest when it comes to the power and versatility of a smartphone. Jack of all trades indeed. I can live with that assessment...as if you needed/wanted my blessing. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Knife Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 Do you have to have a bare finger for the touch screen to work like an iPhone? If so, you'll have to sew those strand thingies into the fingertips of your glove, won't you? (Can you tell I've never used a Droid?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 what routing tools are compatible with Co Pilot? I've already bought Co Pilot NA and maps, quite the application and no on-line map dependency Are you asking what route formats can CoPilot import? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bryan217 Posted October 13, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've love my Zumo 550. It's rugged and waterproof and syncs with my Cardo headset and iPhone with no problem. Yeah, the Bluetooth is only mono, stereo would be better for the music, but music isn't my primary use for it. I'll admit the screen resolution is pretty lousy. It's old technology that hasn't kept up with the times, though it should for the price they charge. And the responsiveness of the touch screen is nowhere near the iPhone. When I use the Zumo for nav, it's usually custom routes that I inputted myself using Google Maps. Do any of the smart phone apps have the capability to import custom routes? I really like what I've been reading about CoPilot Live. It definitely has some good features and good price (on sale right now). But I can't see using my iPhone as my primary GPS on the motorcycle between not being waterproof and not working with gloves. But I can see using it in the car. It looks much better than my wife's Nuvi, with the lane assist, real signs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmosabie Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 ipads fit in tank bags map slot, gps works without data connection, preview your days ride ahead of time and it will remember more map area than what you need to. better than any smartphone out there, no monthly plan. if you need a phone keep yours or it does that too, wifi only for free, or data for $20 a gig with on/off button = plenty of talk time, bluetooth, more (i keep my service manual on mine too). F'ing awesome, imo, beats any and every gps device or smart phone out there,... for motorcycling purposes. No this is not a spam commercial, i just love mine and see no problem with using it daily or for long trips, im still working on getting it on the bike though, almost there, had mine a while now, just got my vfr a couple months ago and excited about the potential. search youtube ~ ipad_tankbag mov search ebay ~ motorcycle ipad charger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RED RUNNER Posted April 26, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2012 I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus: it is a big android phone using the latest Google operating system. The navigation on it is better than the navigation in my cars by far. You just speak the destination, and it immediately charts a course and gives voice directions. Even better than the iPhone. That said, I ain't mounting it on my motorcycle. The bike will shake it to pieces. I think the gps companies dropped the ball. They didn't keep up. The crappy screen resolution and graphics of most navigation systems suck compared to what we're now used to -- the iPhone. Until they up the ante, Garmin and Magellin are going to be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Bottom line a smart phone is a good option for everything in the one package but at the moment for a motorbike there isn't a smartphone that ticks the most important boxes. You need water resistant & be able to make adjustments on the fly with gloves on & at the moment those options aren't available. There is also the problem of gps reception with smartphones when you disable tower use (you must have stand alone GPS app) which saves data cost & the problem when phone has no tower reception, there is a fix for this now just pair up a gps receiver which are available in 10mhz for very little cost. The latest release smartphones are getting more powerful chips with better reception but still the times I have tested smartphones my Garmin 660 still out performs them for reception anywhere unless I use an auxiliary gps receiver. I like technology & would use a smartphone as the sole device on my bike when there is a water resistant model with either a touch screen that is glove friendly or has the capability or app available for voice commands to operate the phone functions so until then my Zumo 660 is the ducks guts & the only reason I carry a phone on my bike is phone calls which while riding have zero importance to me so could really leave the phone at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 26, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2012 Oh ya, Zumo is IPX7 waterproof rated, your smartphone warnty goes poof if you get one drop of water on it. I can't see smartphones replacing full time GPS units anytime soon. But it will happen! There's no reason I can see why a fully touch-screen smartphone cannot be made IP-rated, and when that day comes, I'll buy one and ditch my Zumos. Just not until then... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 The software from the dedicated GPS units is ancient. I've tried all the major brands and unfortunately I found Garmin's to be the best, in the sense that it's the least awful. That's because it's still slow, has a small screen with a low resolution (480x270 at best) and difficult to edit custom routes. For instance, when creating a custom route going through A-B-C-D, when you want to add a new point between B and C using map browsing, it puts the map to point A! Lovely. There are some newer Nuvis that have an 800x600 screen resolution, but otherwise the software is mostly unchanged (same routing issues, tested at BestBuy). Using a smartphone for GPS is more feasible than you might think as long as you don't rely exclusively on Google Maps&Navigation. As long as you stick to an offline navigation software like Copilot Live or Navigon (recently bought by Garmin) and download the map data once via WiFi (e.g. 1.3 GB for the US), you're good to go. The GPS chip from the smartphone is actually more usable than the one from your Garmin because it's assited GPS (AGPS) and uses the cell towers when available for acquiring its position faster. If you've ever waited 1-2 minutes for a standalone GPS to find the satellites, you know what I'm talking about. But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo. Did you end up using this set up? If so how did it work or what are you using now. I'm looking for a navigation system outside of a Zumo for the motorcycle. I use an iPhone now that works great for daily use, but really do not want to use it for long trips. I would like to load routes into whatever I get. Right now I'm looking at the Garmin Montana but its just so darn expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted April 26, 2012 Forum CEO Share Posted April 26, 2012 I have a zumo 550 and I have a razormax from motorola with Copilot live on it. I have used the zumo for years, routes are easy to set up ahead of time with mapsource, dont like having to pay for new maps every year so I often forgo that if I am going the same old places. Copilot has a similar upgrade for maps. Copilot is not as easy to shape a complicated route with as it is with mapsource, god help me I tried to make a texamap route with it! I can drag a map and add lots of waypoints then it forces the map to roads I would like to travel but its not nearly as easy as mapsource and upload to zumo, cant share routes either, no way to pop a gpx file over to my desktop or laptop to share it! so the zumo still has the advantage, its water proof, glove freindly and is not as easy to get off on a tangent if you should touch the wrong button. Smartphones are strongly making a play for the one stop shop do it all device but not quite there yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Thank you Miguel. Yea I need to keep it simple in the tech department. If you have trouble using something then I won't even go near it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted April 26, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2012 Shoot, I'd have to buy a smartphone first. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer wrestler Posted April 26, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2012 Let's just wait and see if folks don't recognize the disadvantages of smart phones just in time for Zumo's response to those deficits. I am sure they are cooking up something else in the Garmin kitchens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted April 26, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2012 Shoot, I'd have to buy a smartphone first. LOL Now HERE is a smart phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer realistdreamer Posted April 26, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2012 A single-purpose device ought to be better at that single purpose. 80% of my riding will not need GPS at all. For the 20% I have a smartphone mount that works with my gloves with the conductive thread I've sewn in. Frankly, I mostly want the turn-by-turn directions which I don't need to adjust much on the fly, so it works for most situations. I used the same phone for calls, tunes and even audiobooks if the trip is long enough. I'm also a one-stop shop, swiss army knife type of guy. For something I do 20% of the time or less, that's good enough. If I was primarily touring to foreign lands, maybe I'd have a different answer. Most of us come from a generation where we knew how to use maps and markers and directional sense. I use that more than the GPS anyway. Exploring remote twisties is really my only use for GPS on the fly (don't want to miss a critical turn) and as long as reception is decent, my Razr works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer IntAceptor Posted April 27, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 27, 2012 I went for a lung and signed over my first born to pay for a Garmin 660 a while back. I coupled it to a 42" wide screen TV and mounted it on my handlebars. I have to look over the TV but it is a small price to pay for the detail I can see. It has a lean angle detector that buzzes when tire traction gets close to about 98% and I have it set up to make phone calls with a view of the party I am speaking to and couples a radar detector to the screen that flashes SLOW DOWN when in harms way. And yes, I am about 4 beers in. but I did buy the 660 and I don't use it to its full capability or even come close. Seb ----- no smart phone here either. I waste too much time on the computer as it stands and only use the phone I have to yack and figure out tips at restaurants with the calculator, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFR4Lee Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Another cave man here. Hope my old Captain Kirk style dumb cell phone works for a long time to come. I guess my paper maps and map books are obsolete too. But I've never felt much need for a GPS, or a smart phone. No doubt they're cool, but it's the expense I don't like. Especially when it's every month. And I guess there's an element of not wanting the pita of having to learn how to work yet another gadget. Plus the smart phones appear to be highly addictive. A major time suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo. Did you end up using this set up? If so how did it work or what are you using now. I'm looking for a navigation system outside of a Zumo for the motorcycle. I use an iPhone now that works great for daily use, but really do not want to use it for long trips. I would like to load routes into whatever I get. Right now I'm looking at the Garmin Montana but its just so darn expensive. Yes I did. I started by setting up the tablet mount for the VFR: That worked OK, except that screen visibility wasn't that great and the tablet was a bit on the large side. After I got my Galaxy Nexus, I thought I'd give it a try: The screen quality is miles better (AMOLED display) and it's large enough (4.65"). I'm currently working on an improved setup to have it mounted higher up, so that it's easier to glance at the route. I'm still pretty happy with Copilot. It's far from perfect, but editing a route is a breeze compared to any dedicated GPS unit I've tried (e.g. route dragging, very similar to Google Maps). Route sharing is not that great (proprietary file format, can be shared only with an online backup solution like DropBox). As a backup, I have Google Navigation (requires data connection) and Navigon (another offline navigation app, but rather expensive for what it offers - no wonder the company got bought by Garmin). All in all, I still stand by my solution, nowadays even more so than before: for almost half the price of a Zumo, you can buy an unlocked Galaxy Nexus ($400 from Google) and the Copilot app. Yes, the Zumo has some advantages, but at that price tag it's a ripoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer NorthernVFRDave Posted April 27, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 27, 2012 The down side of this of course is, if there is a law about the use of cell phones and portable electronics well driving in your area. I'm sure if a local LEO saw an iPad strapped to your gas tank that would be enought of a reason to stop you. And you may end up having to take a day off work and explaining yourself in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted April 28, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 28, 2012 Zumo? TomTom? Smartphone? WHAT are you guys talking about???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I can't see smartphones replacing full time GPS units anytime soon. Ask Garmin about that. The market for personal navigation devices is tanking due to the rapid acceptance of smartphones. For the Camray and Range Rover drivers, yes. For the motorcycle riders, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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