Member Contributer BCmcrider Posted October 10, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 10, 2011 My experience with the mapping application on my droid smartphone is that it needs a data connection to be of any use as a gps. When it does have data, the gps app is great. That being said, I have not used it on the MC, only on the console of my vehicle but there is no reason it couldn't work as well in a tank bag. As I rely on the spoken instructions, the size of the screen isn't an issue and I wouldn't be trying to enter a destination while riding or driving anyway. On the last mc trip, I used my TomTom gps which was fine for the most part but it still pays to have a paper map as a backup and for seeing a large area at once for route discussions where the relatively tiny gps screen doesn't portray the overview as effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Call me a caveman, but I don't have/don't want a smartphone or any cell phone with a monthly plan. Firstly, it doesn't fit into my budget and secondly, I have no use for it. I have a pre-pay phone that I can use for $1/day when I'm on the road, and the number doesn't change. Last time I checked out pricing, you could lay out around 2-300+ for a phone, then $80-100/month for the data plan for 2 years. So at minimum you're spending over $2000 for a convenience. I paid $140(IIRC) for my Nuvi 750, and $20 for my pre-paid cell phone. In 4 years when I'm ready to replace both of them (if I feel like stepping up to new technology), I can buy a new phone, a new gps, AND another bike!! Don't get me wrong, I think smartphones are really cool. I just feel cooler with cash in my pocket vs a phone in my pocket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BonusVFR Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 Seb this makes me feel better! I felt like I was the last person in the western hemisphere not to have a Smartphone!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer michaelf3 Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 If your smartphone has GPS built-in, you do not need cell towers provided you buy the proper application(s) for your smartphone. I have Co-pilot for both my Iphone and Android tablet (one time payment, no monthly subscription). The application has static maps, no data download required (meaning no cell tower requirement). Works just like a standalone GPS. Having said that, no smartphone or smartphone application I have tried even come close to the usefulness of a standalone GPS. In a pinch, a smartphone or tablet will be better than having nothing, but they can't replace the Zumo. The Zumo has far better maps, is waterproof, works with gloves on and is viewable in direct sunlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Solomoto Posted October 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 I can't see smartphones replacing full time GPS units anytime soon. Ask Garmin about that. The market for personal navigation devices is tanking due to the rapid acceptance of smartphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The software from the dedicated GPS units is ancient. I've tried all the major brands and unfortunately I found Garmin's to be the best, in the sense that it's the least awful. That's because it's still slow, has a small screen with a low resolution (480x270 at best) and difficult to edit custom routes. For instance, when creating a custom route going through A-B-C-D, when you want to add a new point between B and C using map browsing, it puts the map to point A! Lovely. There are some newer Nuvis that have an 800x600 screen resolution, but otherwise the software is mostly unchanged (same routing issues, tested at BestBuy). Using a smartphone for GPS is more feasible than you might think as long as you don't rely exclusively on Google Maps&Navigation. As long as you stick to an offline navigation software like Copilot Live or Navigon (recently bought by Garmin) and download the map data once via WiFi (e.g. 1.3 GB for the US), you're good to go. The GPS chip from the smartphone is actually more usable than the one from your Garmin because it's assited GPS (AGPS) and uses the cell towers when available for acquiring its position faster. If you've ever waited 1-2 minutes for a standalone GPS to find the satellites, you know what I'm talking about. But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 if you have the garmin/tom tom/whatever... use it... why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Solomoto Posted October 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 if you have the garmin/tom tom/whatever... use it... why not? Well when you're traveling, you don't want to carry multiple gadgets if you can avoid it. The smartphone does exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer wrestler Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 The software from the dedicated GPS units is ancient. I've tried all the major brands and unfortunately I found Garmin's to be the best, in the sense that it's the least awful. That's because it's still slow, has a small screen with a low resolution (480x270 at best) and difficult to edit custom routes. For instance, when creating a custom route going through A-B-C-D, when you want to add a new point between B and C using map browsing, it puts the map to point A! Lovely. There are some newer Nuvis that have an 800x600 screen resolution, but otherwise the software is mostly unchanged (same routing issues, tested at BestBuy). Using a smartphone for GPS is more feasible than you might think as long as you don't rely exclusively on Google Maps&Navigation. As long as you stick to an offline navigation software like Copilot Live or Navigon (recently bought by Garmin) and download the map data once via WiFi (e.g. 1.3 GB for the US), you're good to go. The GPS chip from the smartphone is actually more usable than the one from your Garmin because it's assited GPS (AGPS) and uses the cell towers when available for acquiring its position faster. If you've ever waited 1-2 minutes for a standalone GPS to find the satellites, you know what I'm talking about. But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo. Would be good to see a pic or two of your mount. I have both a Zumo 650 and an Android 3. I use them both. The Droid is notoriously short on battery life although I have rigged a charger to take care of that. The Zumo is easier for me to see. The Droid is easier to program and use. If I had to buy a Zumo today (as opposed to two years ago) I think I'd be looking at the Thrive or some other tablet option. I'm still trying to master the intricacies of the Zumo. I love having it. Great security factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 if you have the garmin/tom tom/whatever... use it... why not? Well when you're traveling, you don't want to carry multiple gadgets if you can avoid it. The smartphone does exactly that. how much space does a smart phone take up in your pocket? 2nd.. if you crash.. and i hope you dont.. the chance your phone being busted is much greater.. then your double screwed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Solomoto Posted October 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 Using a smartphone for GPS is more feasible than you might think as long as you don't rely exclusively on Google Maps&Navigation. As long as you stick to an offline navigation software like Copilot Live or Navigon (recently bought by Garmin) and download the map data once via WiFi (e.g. 1.3 GB for the US), you're good to go. The GPS chip from the smartphone is actually more usable than the one from your Garmin because it's assited GPS (AGPS) and uses the cell towers when available for acquiring its position faster. If you've ever waited 1-2 minutes for a standalone GPS to find the satellites, you know what I'm talking about. Thanks for the pointers, I checked YouTube for both Copilot Live and Navigon. Both look very impressive and makes the smartphone the true equivalent of a standalone GPS with stored maps. Garmin also has a smartphone app but it seems iPhone centric and I have an Android phone. Hae you used both and have a preference for one or the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Would be good to see a pic or two of your mount. Actually the RAM mount is in place, the only bit missing being a 12v socket to power the thing, so I guess I could post something tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Solomoto Posted October 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 I spent a bit of time researching CoPilot Live and Navigon. I settled on CoPilot Live and bought the North America version for $20 thru the Android Market. This includes both Mexico and Canada maps. The user interface, ease of use, and menu structure feels a bit more polished than the Zumo 550. It's got voice directions, points of interest, lodging, restaurants, gas stations, real time weather and traffic, compass and heading. The data link allows you to upload your tracks in real time with Live Link if you should want to let friends track your trips (not to be confused with SPOT which is satellite based). One thing I haven't figured out is how to display speedometer and odometer. I haven't taken it out on the road yet so the lack of speedometer may be related to the fact that I'm stationary. I'll know soon. Overall I'm quite favorably impressed, but unfortunately this represents another nail in the coffin for standalone GPS devices. $20 for complete NA map and application is quite appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks for the pointers, I checked YouTube for both Copilot Live and Navigon. Both look very impressive and makes the smartphone the true equivalent of a standalone GPS with stored maps. Garmin also has a smartphone app but it seems iPhone centric and I have an Android phone. Hae you used both and have a preference for one or the other? I've used Copilot Live in trips but only for about 1000 miles, maybe less. It's been reasonably reliable and newer updates improved things. I used it with both the tablet and my older Android phone (a Droid Eris). Overall I came to trust it more than my previous Garmin GPSs (a 255w and then a 750). Unfortunately Navigon has issues on my Toshiba Thrive and it's unable to correctly detect the available free space, so at this point it's unusable. However, when it's working, it's supposedly superior to Copilot Live. It could be my tablet since I'm not fully convinced that Toshiba knows what they're doing (e.g. the Android 3.2 update is still unavailable while almost all other 3.x ones already have it, Netflix unavailable etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Bottom line smart phones are wonderful gizmos but at the moment they don't come near a ZUMO 660 replacement. I used an Iphone with ram mount as a test & it failed as far as ease of use goes so having a ZUMO mounted on my bike & my smart phone in my pocket or tank bag is the best of both worlds. The ZUMO is water proof, there isn't a smartphone that is so if it starts raining what you going to do stop & put the smartphone away which will then have problems sync gps & even if it still can you then have to rely on voice turn prompts. The ZUMO you can operate with gloves on, the smartphone you have to stop to do anything, even change music. ZUMO 660 has stero bluetooth & syncs with bluetooth smartphone so you know when a message or call comes in, I won't answer calls on my bike but it is handy when your expecting a call when riding & know when it's received. The number one advantage for me is the ZUMO big screen, I have the HTC HD7 & the screen is still to small for on the bike when you need quick glances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I have a streepilot 2820 on the VFR and a Nokia smartphone with built in GPS. My phone has multiple maps stored on SD card: Garmin City navigator, Openstreetmap cycle map & Nokia OVI maps and the route planning software that comes with it: Garmin Mobile XT & Nokia OVI. The phone also has Google Maps software but that uses offline maps, it is however very quick in calculating routes. Although the phone has the potential to be a every day use GPS system (Garmin Mobile XT can download traffic information which my Streetpilot can't) I have never used it on the VFR. First of all a dedicated GPS is much easier to operate on the bike, it is water- & shockproof, can store more than one pre planned route (not all smartphone GPS software has that capability), has better GPS signal reception and comes with good software that you can use on a home computer to plan trips. I can see the smartphone replacing the dedicated GPS, where you can keep the phone(/personal mobile computer) safely stored away and only have a dedicated weatherproof touch screen mounted in front of the dash that communicates with your GPS phone using WiFi or Bluetooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 I'm with the naysayers. Still running a flip phone from 7 years ago. Think $30 a month for service, but could be cheaper if I wasn't forced to pay for unlimited text by the rest of the world. I'm not in an environment where I need access to the internet 24/7, and I don't want be. We survived without it for years before. As for the rest of the functions, I'd rather have something meant for the task that's going to do it well rather than somethings that's going to do it mediocre at best. Phone pics are still terrible compared to a cheap digital pocket cam, and the camera has more built in features. Data plan $30/month. 2 years = $720. Plus phone cost. So your looking at an extra grand for a smart phone at least, assuming you don't break yours and have to pay for a replacement. Phone GPS's are great for use in a pinch and that. But no way a replacement for a daily use GPS, especially if you're on a long trip. Good stand alone GPS's will have better response, touch screens that work with gloves, built in maps, more ruggedness, no need to worry about draining your phone battery, water resistance or water proofness, no monthly fees, built in advanced routing features, fewer worries about signal strength, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer NorthernVFRDave Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 Call me a caveman, but I don't have/don't want a smartphone or any cell phone with a monthly plan. Caveman :). Sorry can't believe no one else jumped on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 But, I don't use a smartphone for navigation on trips longer than half a day. I use a 10" tablet (Toshiba Thrive), a RAM tablet mount and a water resistant sleeve (http://www.amazon.co...duct/B004AM625G). On larger bikes like the VFR that screen size isn't that big of an issue. This setup worked fine even with my BMW F650 GS and I'm in the process of setting it up for my recently purchased VFR as well (looks very promising so far). Will post details once completed and tested. Oh, and that's for about less than half the price of a Zumo. So how does that water RESISTANT bag work for causing premature failure of the internal components due to overheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 Call me a caveman, but I don't have/don't want a smartphone or any cell phone with a monthly plan. Caveman :). Sorry can't believe no one else jumped on that one. nope.. you can buy a smart phone and pre pay it. personally.. my sidekick with NO voice plan.. (whats a deaf guy gonna do with it?) is 50 a month and has VIDEO chat to sign with my pals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 So how does that water RESISTANT bag work for causing premature failure of the internal components due to overheating? That's a good point. I plan on using the bag only when it's raining, in which case it should be cold enough for cooling not to be an issue. On the other hand I haven't read complaints about overheating and subsequent failures even when using it in the sunshine, like next to a pool or beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Phone GPS's are great for use in a pinch and that. But no way a replacement for a daily use GPS, especially if you're on a long trip. Good stand alone GPS's will have better response Nope, they have worse response times. The original poster was talking about a modern smartphone with a dual-core 1GHz CPU. Even my 700 MHz single CPU phone is faster than all dedicated GPS units I've used before. , touch screens that work with gloves, That's true, that's why I'm experimenting with a tablet. Yes, yes, pictures will come soon. built in maps You should always use a navigation app with offline maps. Hence my wifi-only tablet works just fine. more ruggedness Fair point. A case protector is usually fine, but the glass screens are vulnerable. That's a risk indeed. no need to worry about draining your phone battery, You also need to charge the GPS, don't you? water resistance or water proofness Use a waterproof casing. , no monthly fees Nope. Once again, use offline maps. , built in advanced routing features, fewer worries about signal strength That was my point, routing is problematic with Garmin. Copilot has awesome routing in comparison and you have choices because of competition between the navigation app vendors. Don't get me wrong, we're experimenting here with the smartphone/tablet setup. But like others pointed this out, traditional navigation with dedicated GPS units face a steep decline and we're in the process of moving to smarter general-purpose devices which get the job done better and cheaper while being useful for other things as well. It has already started, whether you like it or not, but it'll take time to sort out the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 So how does that water RESISTANT bag work for causing premature failure of the internal components due to overheating? That's a good point. I plan on using the bag only when it's raining, in which case it should be cold enough for cooling not to be an issue. On the other hand I haven't read complaints about overheating and subsequent failures even when using it in the sunshine, like next to a pool or beach. Probably just passive cooling on those units or do they have a fan? Also responding to some of your answers above, The charging of my GPS is transparent because it is mounted in it's cradle and doesn't have to move...it isn't doing double duty as another device. I can take it off the bike at night and use it on battery if I wish. I'm sure you know all this. I am just a person that likes to have a dedicated device that does one or two jobs well because that's what it's designed for, instead of a device that tries to be a jack of all trades and does most of it's tasks with mediocrity. A perfect example is trying to use an iPad or other similar device as a book reader. Dedicated book readers are 1000% better than anything else that tries to display ebooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayarearider Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Using the smart phone Nav on the fly will not do... Using a handheld Nav in the cage on the fly is illegal (here) as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted October 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2011 nope.. you can buy a smart phone and pre pay it. Maybe on GSM. I'm on verizon though. Not switching though, as their service is very reliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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