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zam70

Tips & Tricks To Help Your Charging System

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Just use a large, hot iron, heat the lug, & flow solder into the crimp area. Work quickly, and the plastic won't melt too much. If you use too small an iron you'll melt the plastic long before the solder flows. You could always just remove it too since it's getting covered anyway.

I'll bet the big iron's the key. I've melted a bunch of plastic on connectors! Thx

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no point using a 10 gauge lug really...the stator wires are 14 gauge. The real key seems to be getting a good connection from wire to connector, and then between the connectors. I have a stator hardwire kit that works great if you want to be able to remove them, or you can do as suggested and just bolt them together...be careful to insulate the bolt very well, as you don't want it vibrating and rubbing through.

I also prefer solder, although the purist claim vibration can cause the solder joint to fail. so far my solder joints lasted longer than the crimp connections, so I will stick with that.

The key to soldering is lots of heat in a concentrated space for the shortest time possible. Naturally too much heat will leave the connector hot for a long time, so don't overdo it. I use a fairly big Weller gun on high, it takes about 10 seconds from start to finish, and the insulation should never melt away or look burned. Dual wall heat shrink is also the best thing ever!

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Once again, HobbyKing is your friend.

Check out these bad boys!

XT150.jpg

Gold plated 150amp connectors, $10 for three sets of five pairs. Oh yeah!

Or if they're too big you can go smaller.

9001-AB.jpg

These things are great because their actual purpose is for connecting to three-phase AC brushless motors - which are basically exactly what our stators are (in reverse).

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Once again, HobbyKing is your friend.

Check out these bad boys!

XT150.jpg

Gold plated 150amp connectors, $10 for a set of five pairs. Oh yeah!

Or if they're too big you can go smaller.

9001-AB.jpg

These things are great because their actual purpose is for connecting to three-phase AC brushless motors - which are basically exactly what our stators are (in reverse).

Thanks to you and Tightwad for the info/tips. My head's swimming with so many apparent choices among the available methods of connection and protection of the connection. My goal is to relocate the r/r to the underside of the fender eliminator, so that's a complication for the stator, and battery connections/wiring.

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Good things never last...or lasted about 18 months in this case. The stator just keeps burning up connectors...

IMG_9215Medium.jpg

Those splices look soldered to me, and the fact that they burnt at the splice means that you had a bad solder joint. And based on this picture I say that the failure most likely resulted from resistance and not over-voltage, so keep that in mind when you solder wire-to-wire or use solder to fill in crimp connectors. It's always a good idea to make sure the splice did not create any resistance in the wire, especially if the wire handles a lot of current or voltage.

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Good things never last...or lasted about 18 months in this case. The stator just keeps burning up connectors...

Those splices look soldered to me, and the fact that they burnt at the splice means that you had a bad solder joint. And based on this picture I say that the failure most likely resulted from resistance and not over-voltage, so keep that in mind when you solder wire-to-wire or use solder to fill in crimp connectors. It's always a good idea to make sure the splice did not create any resistance in the wire, especially if the wire handles a lot of current or voltage.

They were soldered, I guess I'll have to work on a better connection next time.

This was the other end of the splice, showing a lot of heat at the crimp.

IMG_9211Medium.jpg

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Good things never last...or lasted about 18 months in this case. The stator just keeps burning up connectors...

Those splices look soldered to me, and the fact that they burnt at the splice means that you had a bad solder joint. And based on this picture I say that the failure most likely resulted from resistance and not over-voltage, so keep that in mind when you solder wire-to-wire or use solder to fill in crimp connectors. It's always a good idea to make sure the splice did not create any resistance in the wire, especially if the wire handles a lot of current or voltage.

They were soldered, I guess I'll have to work on a better connection next time.

This was the other end of the splice, showing a lot of heat at the crimp.

IMG_9211Medium.jpg

Were those quick disconnects crimped and soldered, or just crimped? Either way, you can see evidence of heat there too. But that's exactly how I bypassed the OEM stator connector on my bike, and now I'm wondering if my quick disconnects are also burnt. I don't know what to say about these connectors, except that maybe you used quick disconnects smaller than 14 gauge? If so, as a general rule of thumb then I don't anything less than 14 gauge would be capable of handling the current flow that each phase of the stator is capable of producing. FYI...on a 12 volt system, for a short length of wire 14 gauge is rated at 30 amps, but 18 gauge is only rated at half that.

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It's always a good idea to make sure the splice did not create any resistance in the wire, especially if the wire handles a lot of current or voltage.

What's a good way to make this check?

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It's always a good idea to make sure the splice did not create any resistance in the wire, especially if the wire handles a lot of current or voltage.

What's a good way to make this check?

Technically you would want to test a run of wire end-to-end, but that isn't possible with the stator wires because you cant easily get to the ends. But what you can do is test the stator per the service manual. So you'll have to somehow get one of your multimeter leads underneath the insulation of each connector or splice on the side that is nearest to the Rectifier/Regulator, and then connect the other lead to ground. The manual says the resistance of each yellow wire to ground should be between 0.1 - 1.0 ohm (which indicates a good stator), so if you have more than 1 ohm then you probably have an issue with your repair/modification.

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It's always a good idea to make sure the splice did not create any resistance in the wire, especially if the wire handles a lot of current or voltage.

What's a good way to make this check?

Technically you would want to test a run of wire end-to-end, but that isn't possible with the stator wires because you cant easily get to the ends. But what you can do is test the stator per the service manual. So you'll have to somehow get one of your multimeter leads underneath the insulation of each connector or splice on the side that is nearest to the Rectifier/Regulator, and then connect the other lead to ground. The manual says the resistance of each yellow wire to ground should be between 0.1 - 1.0 ohm (which indicates a good stator), so if you have more than 1 ohm then you probably have an issue with your repair/modification.

Perfecto - thanks. I suppose I could penetrate the insulation (beyond the connection) with a pin and use the pin as the upstream test point.

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They were soldered, I guess I'll have to work on a better connection next time.

This was the other end of the splice, showing a lot of heat at the crimp.

Were those quick disconnects crimped and soldered, or just crimped? Either way, you can see evidence of heat there too. But that's exactly how I bypassed the OEM stator connector on my bike, and now I'm wondering if my quick disconnects are also burnt. I don't know what to say about these connectors, except that maybe you used quick disconnects smaller than 14 gauge? If so, as a general rule of thumb then I don't anything less than 14 gauge would be capable of handling the current flow that each phase of the stator is capable of producing. FYI...on a 12 volt system, for a short length of wire 14 gauge is rated at 30 amps, but 18 gauge is only rated at half that.

Just crimped. Those were definitely 12 or even 10 gauge connectors. I don't know what I could have done wrong, strip the wire, insert, crimp. I'm wondering if it's just an over amperage problem and not resistance through the splice? This was a new splice in Dec. '09.

wires.jpg

Which replaced the original connector which was still barely charging the bike:

rr_connector_99.jpg

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When splicing I always try to get as much wire into the connector as possible, and as long as you have a good mechanical connection at the splice points then they are probably fine. The problem with the stator wires, is that when the engine is at typical operating speed (5K rpm or more) the stator is continuously pumping out about 60 volts AC per phase. Current flow is what's burning wires and melting connectors, so if there is too much amperage flowing through these wires, then you have to look at the R/R since it regulates the current flow from the stator. If you're still burning stator wires and don't have resistance in your repairs, then you might have something else going on with your electrical system.

This is a really good guide to troubleshooting the stator and R/R: http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

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Well, 10 years old battery (orig.) bit the dust so set off in search of a new. The Yuasa is $180 at cyclegear, and i dont even want to know what a stealer charges. My search for a 12S leaves me empty handed, only to find the 12BS which is taller and will not fit under the seat. Sears had the Craftsman 9S which has identical dimensions to the 12S but the A-hr rating is 9 vs 12. So I went with it for $80. Before I add the mix and charge it, and knowing if I use it that cold weather starts will be taxing on this battery, does anyone recommend that I not use this battery in lieu of the 12S? Also, if I do use it, will the added load 'hurt' the RR & charging system?

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Well, 10 years old battery (orig.) bit the dust so set off in search of a new. The Yuasa is $180 at cyclegear, and i dont even want to know what a stealer charges. My search for a 12S leaves me empty handed, only to find the 12BS which is taller and will not fit under the seat. Sears had the Craftsman 9S which has identical dimensions to the 12S but the A-hr rating is 9 vs 12. So I went with it for $80. Before I add the mix and charge it, and knowing if I use it that cold weather starts will be taxing on this battery, does anyone recommend that I not use this battery in lieu of the 12S? Also, if I do use it, will the added load 'hurt' the RR & charging system?

Well, you went from a battery that is barely addequate at 12 amp hour, to one that is defintiely sub par at 9. Cycle gear is not competive on batteries.

Batterystuff.com is a good place

Edited by spud786

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The VFR battery is common to a LOT of other bikes. No good reason you shouldn't be able to find one.

I would get a AGM battery myself. Some here are using the lithium variant batteries, but I'm still in wait & see mode on those.

Edited by MBrane

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Thanks Kaldek - Those Hobby King connectors look like the nuts for the stator hook up!

Adding a note June 2013 - negative on the HK for the stator connectors

and hell yeah to DephiPackard Metri pack 630 automotive connectors

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I did the solder route for the splice and now have 13.2V at idle, a solid 14V at 2.5K and 5K rpm.

I'm wondering if the bad starter switch I had contributed to the connectors burning? The switch was sticking half way, bike started and ran but headlights were not coming on. Not sure how long this has been going on but I know I had more than a few long (daylight) commutes with the headlights off. ??

BTW, Walmart sells an inexpensive AGM battery for the VFR, about $60.

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I thought I would share my version of power distribution upgrades;

2002 VFR 800 VTEC, 3,700 miles, 1 owner till me. I picked it up a month ago.

I rode it one week until the bike started cutting out on me! High beams on, day time riding.

Just had Honda run the recall, they did the blue connector (front ground issues), and nothing else.

I pulled the body off, to check thier work, and look for other problems.

I found no signs of heat build up on any connectors.

I did not rework the stator wires, as I plan on buying the upgraded Stator/flywheel set soon.

I did however die-electric grease all connections and in/out them all several times to clean them off.

On the Main 30 A fuse, I went with a "MAXI" type inline, which comes with 8 Ga wire.

Much more conducting area for the higher full time current draw, don't ya think?

Available behind the counter at NAPA. ( I forget the #, as I had a few on hand.)

I put a 30A MAXI Fuse in there.

Here it is compared to an ATO type;

post-22701-0-69347800-1309964333_thumb.j

Soldered into the main..

post-22701-0-21789200-1309964376_thumb.j

I left the original intact, with the fuse pulled, maybe for accy's later.

It fit nicely above the starter relay.

post-22701-0-28254200-1309964425_thumb.j

I added 2 x 10 Ga ground wires soldered (tapped and wrapped) from the R/R to a crimp and soldered copper connector to the chassis, on a fairing mount bolt;

Yes, I filed the excess solder, down to nice copper.

post-22701-0-58986500-1309964567_thumb.j

Don't forget to emery cloth or file the frame mount spot clean, as the anodized aluminum is not a good conductor.

post-22701-0-64353000-1309964584_thumb.j

I also ran 2 x 10 Ga wires from the two + 's on the R/R harness, into two sealed ATO in-line fuses, then back to a soldered connector at the battery post.

(I went with 15 A each, as these run in parallel to the stock transmission line through the MAXI Fuse - the idea being double overkill so if the multiple stock connectors are compromised, the new path can handle most if not all of the charging current. The fuses are there top protect the wiring, not the components)

These were only $3.69 at NAPA, behind the counter. (Different number and package, same item)

- Ask to see their electrical parts catalog, lots of great modern stuff in there, most of it made by Buss. - the fuse people.

post-22701-0-45169300-1309964690_thumb.j

Yes, I need to add some plastic conduit to that power line, I ran out.

post-22701-0-19254400-1309964882_thumb.j

My Next step is another MAXI fuse to branch off the battery, and feed the headlight relays directly. Being a 20A load, I want to rip out the factory wires, connectors, etc and have my own clean power supply up to the repays. This will also let that 30A circuit that powers the rest of the bike, breath a little easier.

Edited by biggsxr

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These were only $3.69 at NAPA, behind the counter. (Different number and package, same item)

- Ask to see their electrical parts catalog, lots of great modern stuff in there, most of it made by Buss. - the fuse people.

post-22701-0-45169300-1309964690_thumb.j

These sealed fuse holders are actually made by Delphi and re-packaged by Buss/NAPA. They're part of the Metri-Pack family. I'm now using Metri-Pack 280 and 630 sealed connectors on my bikes' critical electrical components these days. You can get them from Mouser Electronics and Waytek, Inc. in the 'States. Eastern Beaver also sells pre-made fuse holders. (That said, that price for a complete, high quality sealed ATO fuse holder is very good!)

Ciao,

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#1 - I ran an additional 8 gauge ground from the battery neg to the connection on the frame (right side with the green wires, not at the brake valve)

#2 - I ran an additional 12 gauge ground from the new ground point to the regulator ground and commoned them (green wires on the reg plug)

#3 - I ran 2 additional 12 gauge wires from the Batt positive to the regulator charge output wires (red & red white)

Would this be a good idea to do on a 4th gen? I mean, I can't see how you could go wrong doing the same thing, but would it be a waste of time or beneficial?

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for the 4th gen the problem is that R/R connector. The VFRness I sell is 10 gauge wire to the battery for + and - and a 12 guage wire to the starter relay (red/white wire OEM). Stator wires are also bulked up to 12 gauge down to the stator connector in the front.

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Hi,

Good info, but with this being kinda technical in nature...pics or a Utube of the original post would have helped immensely.

Edited by justice1327

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I called the dealer where I bought the bike told him the problem - he gave me a new regulator no charge (the updated one even).
After installation, things were better but, I felt the voltage was still on the low side and unstable.
I went to work cleaning and updating all the charge wires...

Motorbike Driving Gloves

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