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Honda announce VFR “replacement”


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I think it's a love it or hate it thing.  Sure did not like removing my fairings for an oil change last night, or any other trivial reason.  Sure do like riding a full fairing VFR more than I liked riding my half fairing Bandit.  Prefer the looks of fairings so...if I wanted something past the VFR we are back to things like the Kawasaki Z whatever.

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Honda just needs to update and modernize.. Here's a pic from down by Lake Wallowa a month or so ago... 20210821_073221.thumb.jpg.165980d8ada32786c41547be14ad20de.jpgFull disclosure: I bought a '17 BMW R1200RS this past summer, and have ridden it almost 4000 miles sines June 16. I have put 3500 miles on the Viffer too..  However, IMHO there is NO comaparison between the Viffer and the Beemer. Yea, it is a much more expensive bike, but it is thoroughly modern in every way... The BMW electronics site, the chassis, suspension, and brakes are far superior... the 1170cc boxer engine is just plain awesome. Ride by wire and e-cruise is a treat when traveling. It weighs 520#... And.. i can get 200 miles from a tank of fuel, which is enough.. So to me it is worth it cost wise..  Dunno if i will keep the '08Viffer or not. I still grin when i ride it... If Honda builds an equally  modern version VFR I would be very tempted to buy in..

 

 

 

 

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I don't know much about Moto Guzzis, other than that they usually look very cool.  But I would worry about reliability.  And whether there's a Moto Guzzi dealer shop near home in case of a warranty claim.  And parts availability.  Still, cool bikes.  When I was bike shopping last year a local shop had a nice used V9 Roamer on hand.  If I felt like I could have made it into a decent all-arounder (and gotten a good deal on the bike) I might have taken a chance on it.  They're different, and I like that.

 

Getting back to parallel twins, I think we're seeing more of them in new bikes mostly because they're cheaper to build.  But they also seem to be a good choice for an "average" motorcycle, meaning not a niche bike like a supersport (like an R1) or big bore cruiser (like a HD bagger).  I'm not crazy about the engine configuration, but if the rest of the bike was what I wanted, I wouldn't necessarily turn up my nose at a parallel twin based machine.

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I worked on various Moto Guzzi motorcycles and they’re built like a brick shithouse

 

A simple pushrod V twin with shaft drive

 

I could strip a full dresser down to an engine on a block in just over an hour singlehanded so don’t worry about working on it

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  • 4 weeks later...
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On 9/10/2021 at 12:07 PM, jimbob said:

To me, it seems, we just continually get bigger and heavier bikes that dont really add up to bigger fun. I am more encouraged by the news of bikes like the Aprillia 660's, the new Triumph 660, and even the Benelli 520.... That Aprillia in an S-T mode could be a cool bike!

 

My vision of a new/replacement VFR would be lighter weight by 100 lbs or more.  Instead of spending $$ on more electronics and gimmicks, spend it on materials and tech that will cut the weight significantly.  It really is power-to-weight that decides most contests.    

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This in reply to Cogswell on pg 1, where he began with:  

Quote

Sigh . . . sign of the times.   Is this segment now "Adventure Touring"?  Apparently they all have to look like that. 

 

I agree.  I've been a bicyclist also since '72, have worked in bike shops since '76, and still very much a traditionalist about bicycles in general.  I saw the birth of the "mountain bike" and watched as that style of bike took over the market.  I liken the advance of the "adventure motorcycle" to the mountain bike market.  I look back over the decades of motorcycles and bicycles and realize how 'trendy' and gimmick-driven the two markets are.

  

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5 hours ago, ShipFixer said:

If it turned out to be similar to a KTM Adventure 890 R…

Don't think Honda will go that far. They will tend to take the Transalp down the middle and slightly lean more towards road oriented I do believe. I, personally, am very eager to find out what it will actually turn out to be.

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Read that the European release is next week. I'm at a wait and see mode.

I do have the new bike itch, mbe this NT or the new Suzuki 1000GT.....

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2 hours ago, Kbear said:

Don't think Honda will go that far. They will tend to take the Transalp down the middle and slightly lean more towards road oriented I do believe. I, personally, am very eager to find out what it will actually turn out to be.

Absolutely agree.  But they did just surprise everyone with the CBR 1000RR-R, and the mid cycle update on the Africa Twin seems tilted against its competitors the right way.  Fingers crossed for what I want, but I suspect it will be very vanilla.

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I've resigned myself to figuring that to get what I want, I'm going to have to engineer it myself.  And my skills in that area are non-existent . . .

 

 

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12 hours ago, ShipFixer said:

Absolutely agree.  But they did just surprise everyone with the CBR 1000RR-R, and the mid cycle update on the Africa Twin seems tilted against its competitors the right way.  Fingers crossed for what I want, but I suspect it will be very vanilla.

Yes, I agree. Very vanilla.

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  • 2 months later...
On 9/10/2021 at 10:25 PM, ShipFixer said:

If it looked a little different and I didn't already have a VFR...maybe.  Aside from cost, motors are just so much better now, they can do more with parallel twins than they used to.  So the R7 and Aprilia 660 are real world fast enough, etc.  I would have to ride one to know but I don't have any fond memories of any parallel twin I've ridden in the past.

 

But that rendering is fugly.  I am still very interested in an Africa Twin or KTM Adventure 890 R but not so much this thing.  I guess I understand adventure bikes with sport tires the same way I understand a Jeep Wrangler running Michelin Latitudes...it works for some people to have an off road vehicle that's tweaked for the street and really not good at either thing, just not for me.  

 

 

Im just about the swap the tires on my 2017 Africa Twin DCT to a more conventional road tire.   Ive worn the factory Dunlop Trail Max tires down and since I only ride pavement, it makes sense to go with a sport touring type tire.

 

Im not sold on the new replacement to the VFR tbh.    My Africa Twin has basically the same engine and similar look, and its my favourite bike, however, im not sure it the NT1100 would be markedly different to putting sport touring tires on my AT.

 

I have 3 bikes I ride regularly.   2014 VFR800, 2017 Africa Twin, and the 2017 Suzuki M109R.   The attraction for me is, they are all so different, the variety is great.    The new NT1100 may be a great bike, but I wonder how "different " it really is ? is this a case of Honda just trying to get as much use out of one engine as possible ?  (the Rebel is using the parallel twin as well).  Im sure its all driven by the economics and public demand for a certain "look".    

 

Id be interested in knowing the price point on the NT1100 here in Canada, the Africa Twin's are now off the charts for price $18-22,000, its madness.

 

 

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On 9/13/2021 at 9:45 PM, jimbob said:

Honda just needs to update and modernize.. Here's a pic from down by Lake Wallowa a month or so ago... 20210821_073221.thumb.jpg.165980d8ada32786c41547be14ad20de.jpgFull disclosure: I bought a '17 BMW R1200RS this past summer, and have ridden it almost 4000

miles sines June 16. I have put 3500 miles on the Viffer too..  However, IMHO there is NO comaparison between the Viffer and the Beemer. Yea, it is a much more expensive bike, but it is thoroughly modern in every way... The BMW electronics site, the chassis, suspension, and brakes are far superior... the 1170cc boxer engine is just plain awesome. Ride by wire and e-cruise is a treat when traveling. It weighs 520#... And.. i can get 200 miles from a tank of fuel, which is enough.. So to me it is worth it cost wise..  Dunno if i will keep the '08Viffer or not. I still grin when i ride it... If Honda builds an equally  modern version VFR I would be very tempted to buy in..

 

 

 

 

 

Say hello to some HORRENDOUS build, paint and component quality.  You couldn't pay me to own another BMW.  Absolute piles of steaming shite.  You'll be kicking yourself if you sell the VFR.

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I agree. I've never owned a BMW, but I've ridden friends' models over the years. They also seem to have very odd (and expensive) problems. 

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I quite liked riding a friend's K1200RS, but it had transmission and drive issues more than once. I rode a friend's F650CS and aside from the super low seat, it was a hoot to ride (suspension has been upgraded). Their R1100S was terrible. In all fairness, they're all better than the Ghost Stroke Laverda I almost bought...until I rode it. 😛

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Speaking only for my BMW, a 2020 R nineT Pure, it's been mostly a gem.  This has the older air/oil-cooled engine, and is a fairly simple bike for the most part.  No advanced electronics other than ABS, automatic stability control, and factory grip warmers.  I've put 12,000 miles on it in 16 months since I bought it new and have had just one issue - a bad front wheel bearing, which was covered under warranty.  (3-year warranty is standard, by the way, compared to 1-year on most Big 4 bikes.)  It did use some oil the first 10K miles, but that's not unusual for this engine.  Other than the bad bearing, I've had zero issues, but again, this is a pretty simple bike compared to most newer BMWs.  I've very active on an R nineT forum, and there are no common issues with this model.  In fact, they're very reliable.

 

But my Beemer is no VFR.  People don't generally put the miles on this bike that we've put our VFRs, though I'm trying.  😉  But seriously, it's hard to beat a VFR, period.  I really miss my 6th gen. sometimes.  I don't see how the NT can replace a VFR.  It's just not the same.

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Those are really cool llooking bikes. Pic?

 

Can you explain to me why all of my BMW nuts are always talking about heated grips? I've never understood them, as they heat the wrong side of one's hand and limit grip choices (not to mention you have to install them on every bike!). When I lived in colder climates, I did like my heated gloves and vest. 

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12 hours ago, TimC said:

Speaking only for my BMW, a 2020 R nineT Pure, it's been mostly a gem.  This has the older air/oil-cooled engine, and is a fairly simple bike for the most part.  No advanced electronics other than ABS, automatic stability control, and factory grip warmers.  I've put 12,000 miles on it in 16 months since I bought it new and have had just one issue - a bad front wheel bearing, which was covered under warranty.  (3-year warranty is standard, by the way, compared to 1-year on most Big 4 bikes.)  It did use some oil the first 10K miles, but that's not unusual for this engine.  Other than the bad bearing, I've had zero issues, but again, this is a pretty simple bike compared to most newer BMWs.  I've very active on an R nineT forum, and there are no common issues with this model.  In fact, they're very reliable.

 

But my Beemer is no VFR.  People don't generally put the miles on this bike that we've put our VFRs, though I'm trying.  😉  But seriously, it's hard to beat a VFR, period.  I really miss my 6th gen. sometimes.  I don't see how the NT can replace a VFR.  It's just not the same.

 

Rather ironically it's not the complicated electronic trickery that plays up but rather major mechanical parts and corrosion (in my experience).  I actually had to have part of my engine WELDED on a BMW (less than ten years old) last year as the corrosion was so bad.  The clutch, suspension and battery also failed.  The radiator and final drive weren't in the best of shape either.  I'd bought it secondhand with a full BMW service history some 18 months prior........  Compare that to my same age VFR and the difference has to be seen to be believed.  NO corrosion on it apart from a few bolt heads and the water pump housing.  Absolutely rock solid in feel. 

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3 hours ago, bmart said:

Those are really cool llooking bikes. Pic?

 

Can you explain to me why all of my BMW nuts are always talking about heated grips? I've never understood them, as they heat the wrong side of one's hand and limit grip choices (not to mention you have to install them on every bike!). When I lived in colder climates, I did like my heated gloves and vest. 

I don't think heated grips are too special on BMWs.  Lots of bikes have them.  I wish I'd had them on my VFR.  I only mentioned them because it is an electronic doodad.  😉

 

Also, I agree with you -- they do nothing for the front of your fingers subjected to wind chill, but they do make riding in colder temps a little more comfortable.  If I did more cold weather riding I'd buy heated gloves or handguards.

 

And the point from @DwhiteSchrute is well taken.  My 6th gen. was 16 years old with just over 101,000 on it when I finally sold it over a year ago.  No rust, and most of the non-wear components were still original.  We'll see how my BMW fares the next couple years, but I doubt I'll keep it anywhere near as long as I had my VFR.

 

Here are a couple photos for @bmart -- one from the day I bought the bike, and one on the Skyline Drive from last September.

 

R9T pic new.jpg

Skyline Drive pic.jpg

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