BiKenG Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 After much tearing out of hair I finally finished Phase 1 of my naked VFR1200 project in time to use it on this year’s European bike trip. Like many others, I realise the VFR1200 is an extremely good motorcycle, but a little quirky in the styling department. In fact, I no longer desire a fully faired bike and for most of my biking needs, this is my solution - a naked VFR1200. I call it the:- VFR1200S - eVo4. This project has consumed much of my time over the last few months. Removing what I didn’t want and fitting what I did was a relatively minor problem. By far the biggest problem was the electronics and lack of information about how the various systems actually work. Bikes are now sold as a ‘sealed box’ and one is NOT supposed to mess with it. Just cough up the insane prices for replacement assemblies. As I may have mentioned, the throttle bodies for the VFR1200 are an astonishing £2,500 and if you have the slightest problem with any single part of that assembly, you’re just expected to dig deep into your pockets. No chance to rebuild any of it as the minor parts are not made available by Honda. Same goes for any electronics boxes. Any problem, replace at exorbitant cost. This may not be seen as a problem for new bikes, but as they get older it WILL become a problem. I’m not a cynical doom monger pessimistically claiming electronics are unreliable as they are quite the opposite. But stuff WILL fail and when a small box needs to be replaced in an otherwise perfectly good bike, but it costs more than the value of the bike, what then. While researching about the VFR’s ABS system I found that a lot of early cars (yes, even Hondas) are suffering from ABS failure. Brakes apparently work, but there’s an ABS warning light showing. The ‘electronics’ have basically failed and the box is too expensive to replace, so drivers simply ignore the light. So such failures WILL begin to appear on bikes. There’s a big problem lurking just over the horizon and when a single company supplies to almost all car manufacturers, as does Bosch with their ABS systems (even on the VFR), then a problem with that system means a potential problem for many vehicles. Not however with that particular system on my eVo4 as I have removed the ABS completely. Contrary to what many pundits have opined here and on other forums, this did not immediately kill me and since my FireFighter (FireBlade project) never had ABS in the first place (my choice), I like the consistency between the 2 bikes. Also, truth is, I don’t want ABS, or linked brakes or any such tinkering with the bike’s operation that is out of my control. Notwithstanding the failures I mentioned above, I recently nearly ran into the back of my friend’s bike when the ABS kicked in on the bike I was riding as we slowed and I hit a small pothole. For a few vital seconds, the bike decided the brakes should not work and I very nearly ploughed into the back of his bike while frantically squeezing the brake lever as hard as I could - to no avail. Luckily it gave me back control of the brakes just in time to avert disaster (OK it was slow speed, but it would have been very embarrassing). So no, I do NOT want ABS on my bike. Besides which, as I have mentioned before in other topics, with the fairings removed from the VFR1200, there’s simply no room for all the ABS crap. The other sad fact I discovered is how no-one is prepared to help any more. Well, almost no-one. When trying to glean information about various systems, the standard response to requests for information is less than helpful. Honda UK don’t actually know how the systems work - Japan don’t even tell them and they don’t seem to mind not knowing. How things have changed. But generally, it was depressing finding the spirit of cooperation and helpfulness largely so absent. But despite all that, I persevered (wipes brow) and finally rolled the bike out of the workshop on the day we were leaving on the trip. Not ideal to set off on a 2,500 mile trip with no time to test, but as needs must. Fortunately, apart from some misconfiguration of the Dash due to the lack of time, I had no problem with the bike and boy, what a bike it is. I was concerned that even after all the effort I put into weight reduction etc, it may still have not been agile enough for the serious nadgeries in e.g. The Alps. But you know what, I needn’t have worried. It’s simply brilliant. I was initially aware that it was not quite as nimble as my FireFighter (which is of course based on and lighter than a FireBlade), with it feeling slightly heavier and a little more effort required to haul it about from hairpin to hairpin. But it really is a very small difference and soon un-noticed. It is simply superb in even the tight twisties. Honda certainly did their homework on that chassis and it tracks beautifully through the corners. OK, the suspension is non standard, but I was careful to not change the geometry so it wouldn’t affect how it steers. But it certainly DOES change the comfort factor. There’s a certain suppleness you only seem to get from Ohlins. At least, it’s not present with OEM suspension. I know Showa can make very good stuff, but Honda don’t fit that as standard and to be fair it’s not really required for the majority of VFR1200 owners. But some of us like to customise and the Ohlins suspension on the eVo4 is WAY ahead of my FireFighter in that department. So good I don’t want to mess with it. I had no time to test etc before the trip and so started with the standard settings as everything came from Ohlins and it seems pretty well perfect as it is. So, how does a naked VFR1200 look? See for yourself:- more pictures here:- https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h4d9lh4pel83m4h/AABmMXsX_SxkOR9U1SNCBiLva?dl=0 I will point out at this stage that this is Phase 1. I simply didn’t get time to finish off the air intakes in the tank side panels, so they still look a bit messy at the moment. I also intended for it to be red, but again, time was not on my side and fortunately the bike was already black, so as the additional plastics came in black it was simplest to just leave it black. In fact, I think that works rather well - apart from the small triangular infill panels below the rear of the tank. IMO Honda never got this right. They should be the same colour as the tank (sides) so they become visually part of the tank. Otherwise the tank appears to have an unattractive bottom line and those small panels blend with the matt finish of the frame, making it appear a rather large tall block. So they were to have been red, but for a black bike, they need to be gloss black to blend better with the tank. Soon fix those issues. There’s still plenty to do for Phase II - apart from the minor issues mentioned above. Fix QuickShifter so it works (not sure what I got wrong there) and enable the blipper system for clutchless downshifting. This needs to be done in conjunction with installing the electronic Cruise Control system as they both operate on the same throttle system which I also want to modify in order to eliminate the throttle cables. The idea is to use a KTM twist-grip/Throttle Control Position sensor instead of Honda’s regular twist-grip with cables and TCP sensor mounted on the throttle bodies (yuk). But output signal range, closed to fully open may not be immediately compatible. Auto on lights and handlebar heaters, responding to light level and ambient air temperature respectively will also be included, the latter just needing me to finish configuring the Dash to work with the VFR’s air temp. sensor. In fact there’s a lot to be done with the Dash. The VFR uses a ’secret’ serial protocol to communicate between the ECU and the original dash. This carries the current gear position information, oil pressure, HISS and other stuff. So I need to figure this out. Ariel of course have already done this (same engine, same ECU, same Dash, although my idea first:-), but refuse to divulge this useful information to me. See what I mean:-( Also the low speed fuelling is not good. It’s OK when actually pulling or on the overrun, but on a neutral throttle it is not smooth and causes the drive shaft to chatter badly, and noisily. Careful tuning of the PCV map should eliminate this. I realise it still may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it looks and works great for me and I’m kinda surprised Honda have left such a gap in their range. Many models now exist in 3 styles: Sports (full fairing), Adventure and naked, but the VFR1200 exists only as the first 2. Not that I care now:-) As for Ariel, well their Ace is certainly very nice, but my eVo4 is built to suit me and at less than half the price of the Ariel. But, I have still have one niggling problem apparent on this latest trip. However that’s nothing to do with the bike. I need a new pair of knees that won’t ache after only a few hours riding and that’s something you can’t fix with WD40 or duct tape :-( If anyone has any questions, I’d be happy to answer in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer digitallyhip Posted July 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2015 Very cool! This looks vastly better than I feared it might, and is going to be a beautiful bike. Gold star for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted July 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2015 Had the same thing happen with ABS on mine, and absolutely hate it, hate ABS. I can stop manually faster than it can. I'm all for it in the rain but if you can't disable it then it should not be on the motorcycle. I love your exhaust, really good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 can you post some pics on here so that i don't have to sign up for drop box ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2015 ABS works for me but not all like it . And my 11,000 Icon is back . ROLL ON VFRD !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted July 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2015 Looking good Ken (never thought I'd say that about a Vfr12). You don't have to sign up, just click kill, then carry on as if that annoying box had NOT appeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2015 Oh yeah nice . ROLL ON VFRD !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Not too crazy about the nose fairing, but fantastic you were able to retain the stock mirrors. Rest of bike is tastefully done. Bottom of tank covers could use a little dressing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rider14 Posted July 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2015 Nice! First shaft driven sport naked I've seen. What does it weigh? -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer crazybrother Posted July 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2015 l Love it... You might want to contact Don Guhl... He might be able to help you with the ECU communication issues and the fuel mapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2015 HHHHMMMM each to his own and it looks well executed, so 3x for following your vision! But for me this song pops up in my head.... ...just because you could..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Very cool! This looks vastly better than I feared it might, and is going to be a beautiful bike. I was concerned the back end might look disproportionally heavy compared to the more minimalist front, but it doesn't to me - and that's all that matters. can you post some pics on here so that i don't have to sign up for drop box ?? I hope everyone saw Mohawk's post explaining that you don't need a DropBox account simply to view the photos. Just click past the annoying dialog. Having said that, I thoroughly recommend having a DropBox account. Very useful I find and I'm still just using the free one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not too crazy about the nose fairing, but fantastic you were able to retain the stock mirrors. Rest of bike is tastefully done. Bottom of tank covers could use a little dressing up. When I started I knew I wanted that stacked headlight look. Took me a while to find what I wanted as sadly Puig no longer have that particular one available. At least it means no-one can copy my bike. But I love the final appearance. The only downside of that cowl is that the flies get deep inside. They obviously get rammed down the gap between the cowl and the light units. I would like to fit a clear cover to prevent that, but not available off the shelf and trying to shape perspex is not simple. I'll have a go sometime though. Keep dem files out. I was able to mount the cowl onto the VFR's original fairing mount and so keep the stock mirrors as I wanted. But I've been able to raise their mounting so they're a bit higher. You can't see it, but the front fixing either side of the headlights are actually LED driving lights and they (or the headlight if that's on instead) only come on once the engine is running. My Third Law of Motorcycling states:- "Love your bike, but don't expect everyone else to love it" I love it, so I'm happy. Nice! First shaft driven sport naked I've seen. What does it weigh? Good question. Should be quite a bit less than a standard VFR1200, but haven't been able to get it into the bathroom to weigh it. It is obviously heavier than my FireFighter or even a std. 'Blade, but as I said, it's not a big difference and largely disappears once rolling. It even surprised me with how nimble it actually is in the really tight stuff - a serious improvement from when it was standard and the stock VFR is no slouch. Ron Haslam commented that he "could have won races on that bike" after riding a VFR1200. Don't forget, on the Alpine circuit at Millbrook Proving Ground, it was 13 seconds/lap FASTER than an RC30, itself no slouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 You might want to contact Don Guhl... He might be able to help you with the ECU communication issues and the fuel mapping. Yes indeed, I'd love to talk to Don, but I've sent 3 emails to him in an attempt to make contact about having my ECU re-flashed and never received a single response. I believe he's a good guy, but I do wish he'd deal with his emails better. Next big job is to de-cat the exhaust. I forgot to list this earlier. It should have been done already but I had a great deal of trouble finding someone who could do it, this side of Christmas, or at all. I now have a spare exhaust system and more time to look into this and then I will try a de-cat map on the PCV. Then it might be worth looking into some fine tuning on a Dyno. I do want Don Guhl to re-flash the ECU and remove the power restrictions, but I'm not sure I want the mapping changed as then it's kinda final, unless you re-re-flash it. Overall I think it's best to leave that side of it stock and simply use the PCV to modify fuelling as that can easily be changed to suit any further mods. If Don's reading this, hey, call me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 My Third Law of Motorcycling states:- "Love your bike, but don't expect everyone else to love it" I love it, so I'm happy. Absolutely! Especially with bikes like the VFR1200. I am glad you are good with positive and not-so-positive feedback. I think as long as the critiques are honest, to the point, and respectful, it's a good conversation to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer crazybrother Posted July 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2015 You might want to contact Don Guhl... He might be able to help you with the ECU communication issues and the fuel mapping. Yes indeed, I'd love to talk to Don, but I've sent 3 emails to him in an attempt to make contact about having my ECU re-flashed and never received a single response. I believe he's a good guy, but I do wish he'd deal with his emails better. Next big job is to de-cat the exhaust. I forgot to list this earlier. It should have been done already but I had a great deal of trouble finding someone who could do it, this side of Christmas, or at all. I now have a spare exhaust system and more time to look into this and then I will try a de-cat map on the PCV. Then it might be worth looking into some fine tuning on a Dyno. I do want Don Guhl to re-flash the ECU and remove the power restrictions, but I'm not sure I want the mapping changed as then it's kinda final, unless you re-re-flash it. Overall I think it's best to leave that side of it stock and simply use the PCV to modify fuelling as that can easily be changed to suit any further mods. If Don's reading this, hey, call me. Send me a PM and i'll give you a phone number to call... I got connections... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 If you want to try and dive into the serial dash interface, you should pick up a Saleae Logic unit. I picked one up for work (an older Logic16 unit) and its freaking awesome. It will basically allow you to sniff the communication bus over a period of time (up to days) then spit the output into a neat UI and then allow you to apply different standard protocols to see what they used (I assuming its Asynchronous Serial but I could be wrong). Dump the data into an excel spreadsheet and start looking for patterns (Command + Data). The hardest part is that you need to have a PC attached to the Logic unit while its running. If you could stuff a small laptop into a tank bag/backpack, and go for a quick spin, you would be set. I'd love to help you out, but I don't want to pull all the plastics off just to get at the ECU again. edit: I don't know if I can post links, but here: https://www.saleae.com/ I have no affiliation with this company. I just think their products are really helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer alleyoop Posted July 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2015 Glad you survived certain death without the ABS! Kind of a shame to waste the brilliant engineering design that went into that fairing, but I still like it. And you're learning more about the bike than any of us will know. I'm really fascinated with the flat screen display. The Aerial (using Honda's V4) is a sweet bike, but yours is better. You have a fuel tank! Thanks for sharing. By the way, how much weight did you lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gloryracing Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Looks good. If you could get the radiator and all that other crap off the front it would look great. The Harley guys would like it better as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I love fighters, and this is brilliant. Could look a bit angrier, but I love it. I've seen skunk anansie live a few times, duchy. A stripped back Vfr and a skunk anansie reference, what a great thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted July 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not too crazy about the nose fairing, but fantastic you were able to retain the stock mirrors. Rest of bike is tastefully done. Look a lot better than the original :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted July 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2015 Very nice! The black red and gold blend well together. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3racer Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Where did you find those forks and brakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted July 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2015 Wow, the more I look at it the more I like it! Honda should have done with the VFR1200, what they did with the new 500. They could have made the following bikes without much effort, and could have recouped some of that engineering cost. VFR1200 DCT - as is VFR1200 F - as is VFR1200 X - as is, but sell it in the US where big bikes are the norm.......... VFR1200 T - for those who want a tourer...ST replacement??? VFR1200 N - Naked Delight VFR1200 R - Lighter weight, bare minimum race bike instaed of the overpriced underpowered (US Version) RC213V-S Six bikes, one platform, one great engine......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Nice list. I like the "R" idea but cannot think of a class you could race a 1237cc V4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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