Member Contributer EhViffer Posted July 22, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2015 Having ridden 70,000kms on the 2012 DCT model, and loved every one of them (except maybe the last one where I had an off and slid down the road). What to do ?. Buy the 2010 model DCT which was on sale ! (no other DCT choice in New Zealand). But what a difference in the riding... almost a different bike. Clunky 1st and 2nd with minimal engine braking. I will definitely be getting the 2010 ECU flashed by Guhl. I will report back on how the flashed 2010 compares to the OEM 2012 model once it is repaired. Totally agree and can confirm Guhl ECU flash rectified issues between 2010 and 2012. No it doesn't. It removes the restrictions but doesn't smooth out the clunkyness. When you say "confirm" that would absolutely not be in every case. Umm, I did not say "in every case" I did say and will say again that I can "confirm" it did smooth out the clunkyness between the 2010 we own and the 2012 we own. They feel the same now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer alleyoop Posted July 22, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'm sending my ECU off to Guhl Motors this week. (2010, manual shift) I have only one question remaining: What are the pros and cons of raising the rev limit by 500rpm? I especially want to hear any reports of problems (or possible problems). Thanks! I've read that the valves may not like the increased rev limit. Do a little research (might have been in this thread or the ECU reflash thread on VFR club on biker's oracle). Was initially going to raise the limit, but have decided against it for when I send my ECU to Don. -Dan Thanks, Dan. Based on my brief readings, it seems that even though the manufacturers likely set the rev limit to ensure a safe margin of error, there are many factors and parts involved with the raised limit that could serve to lower the engine's lifespan: valves, rods, flywheels. drivetrain have to handle the increased pressures and temperatures. In that respect, lowering the fan temperature threshold is an easier call, as that change can help the engine run cooler and last longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 500 rpm isn't going to hurt anything....this engine makes it's max HP very close to redline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer alleyoop Posted July 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm gonna play it safe and keep the stock rev limit setting. Seems to me that horsepower is already dropping at 9K and torque at 10K, so I don't see how the benefit outweighs the risk. I just got the bike. I'll ride it hard but want the engine to last a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hvfrdave Posted July 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2015 Its nice to see, that someone apart from me, as sussed this out, The VFR1200 is all about torque, torque starts dropping off at just over 8,200revs then the Bhp takes over, but it starts dropping off at just over 9,000revs, then levels off at 10,000 revs. The VFR1200 motor is all about torque, you just don't need to rev the tits off it. I'm gonna play it safe and keep the stock rev limit setting. Seems to me that horsepower is already dropping at 9K and torque at 10K, so I don't see how the benefit outweighs the risk. I just got the bike. I'll ride it hard but want the engine to last a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted July 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2015 Its nice to see, that someone apart from me, as sussed this out, The VFR1200 is all about torque, torque starts dropping off at just over 8,200revs then the Bhp takes over, but it starts dropping off at just over 9,000revs, then levels off at 10,000 revs. The VFR1200 motor is all about torque, you just don't need to rev the tits off it. You can feel it on the bike, stock, modified, whatever. It likes 4-9k. Great midrange. When I flashed my ECU I didn't bother with the raised rev limit stuff, just no need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 This may be a dumb question, but I can't find the answer anywhere with my poor search skills. Is there a choice of flashing? I don't need a racing flash, I would be more interested in one that would allow be to get better mpg though. Smooth out 1st & 2nd and better mpg and this bike will fit me like a glove. Sometimes I wish I would have gotten a DCT. The more I read about long term owners and their DCT the more I am actually interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer crazybrother Posted July 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2015 This may be a dumb question, but I can't find the answer anywhere with my poor search skills. Is there a choice of flashing? I don't need a racing flash, I would be more interested in one that would allow be to get better mpg though. Smooth out 1st & 2nd and better mpg and this bike will fit me like a glove. Sometimes I wish I would have gotten a DCT. The more I read about long term owners and their DCT the more I am actually interested. Yes, all you need to do... Is contact Don Guhl and let him know what you would like and he will give you his advice and then send it in and that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weven Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I did not bother with the rev limit personally. As previously stated that is not what this V4 is about, it’s all about torque, and at the end of the day that’s what we ride is the torque curve. My observations since the reflash, quite rich when cold, not an issue really, low down torque is much improved, I now seldom bother changing down to overtake in the 90-100k (50mph-60mph) it pulls like a school boy in that 4000rpm range. Throttle control is improved, but I don’t think fly by wire is ever going to be as good as a cable to the butterflies. I did a Decat which made a deeper note through my GPR can, very nice IMO. It is quite loud, but I always wear ear plugs. With traction control disabled it will now do a power stand nicely around 5/5500rpm zone, I like that. Trust me, with the D G reflash this bike is %$#@% really quick. I have never had a V4 before, there must be something about the sound but I often find I’m arriving at a corner faster than I expected. I changed the fan temp which I shouldn’t have. I’m sure it is running cooler anyway. In short this bike is now a weapon, after it broke traction a couple of times in second while lent over I replaced the tyre’s at 4000ks with Dunlop Sportsmart 2’s much later technology and really work well on this bike. BT021 previously. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorlast Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Any one on the pre TC 1200 DCT had issues riding in rain after the reflash? That was the main reason I didn't get it so far, I ride in all types of weather and with so much power to the wheel I'd be worried about slipping. I managed to hydroplane/slide around in San Diego once after pushing too hard on an on ramp, it was pure act of God that I didn't end up crashing that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marsman99 Posted July 24, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2015 Any one on the pre TC 1200 DCT had issues riding in rain after the reflash? That was the main reason I didn't get it so far, I ride in all types of weather and with so much power to the wheel I'd be worried about slipping. I managed to hydroplane/slide around in San Diego once after pushing too hard on an on ramp, it was pure act of God that I didn't end up crashing that time.I have the '10 1200 DCT with the reflash. I ride year round rain/shine. Never had an issue in the wet. I did have a slight step-out of the rear, in the dry, shortly after the reflash. I did a mental recalibration and haven't had any trouble since. True, the reflash will open up available power in 1 & 2 gear, but like any big HP bike, calibrate power/throttle/brain and apply carefully. If you're sliding around in the rain, get better tires and/or adjust calibration. The reflash isn't going to transform the bike into something unmanageable. In fact, I hardly notice the difference in daily riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted July 24, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2015 This may be a dumb question, but I can't find the answer anywhere with my poor search skills. Is there a choice of flashing? I don't need a racing flash, I would be more interested in one that would allow be to get better mpg though. Smooth out 1st & 2nd and better mpg and this bike will fit me like a glove. Sometimes I wish I would have gotten a DCT. The more I read about long term owners and their DCT the more I am actually interested. Not a dumb question. But with regards to mpg improvement I don't think that's something he can address unless it is a "natural" by porduct of the flash itself. When I asked him about my concerns with reducing mpg with a flash (given similar riding habits) he said he really didn't have any data to suggest a flash would help mpg but said something like "if anything the bike will get bettter mpg because its running more efficient". That sounds nice and I am not saying it isn't true but also not the same as knowing a new map he loads is going to give you improved mpg. Thats probably a "promise" he can't make so I don't think you can request that specifically. To my knowledge no one has done a before/after comparison with a lot of data on either side of the flash that shows a change one way or the other. Just "seems like mpg didn't change" type of statements. I realize most people are not fanatical about tracking mpg like I am though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarusuki Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I got my 2010 reflashed by Guhl almost two months ago. De-restricted, lower fan temp, raise limiter 500RPM, fuel mapping for my Two Bothers exhaust. I had high hopes for a significant difference, but ended up being underwhelmed. The difference is noticable, but not spectacular. With a newer set of Michelin PR4s, I have had zero slippage, even with aggressive throttle. In the wet, I am considerably more cautious, and have no slippage there, either. I had concerns of having too much power, but I would say the differences are very subtle on a day to day commute type of ride, easy to forget I had any changes made. As for gas mileage, it is hard to say. I try to calculate MPG with each tank. I was seeing a standard 38-40MPG before the flash and I am seeing 38-40MPG after the flash. I do believe that I have been riding much more aggressively than prior to the flash, so that may indicate an increase in fuel efficiency... but it is hard to quantify how much more or less aggressively I will have riden over the course of a particular tank of gas this month, vs. a particular tank of gas last month or two months ago. The lowest I had previously seen was 36MPG on one tank, when I had been misbehaving on the throttle (it was last summer). I haven't seen anything that low since the reflash. So overall, I'm not concerned about losing MPG after the reflash, but I wouldn't count on an increases, either. If I had known how I would feel after getting the reflash, I'm not 100% certain I would have done it. I am pleased with the service I received, and with my experience with Guhl Motors. It was a fast turnaround and the bike is definitely improved. I just don't know if it was $375+shipping improved. Thats my $.02, and I think it's worth every penny. ~Icarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted July 25, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2015 You'll notice a big difference with the cat gone and the bike mapped. It's there the flash shines even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer alleyoop Posted July 25, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2015 I changed the fan temp which I shouldn’t have. I’m sure it is running cooler anyway. Why do you regret changing the fan temperature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 The most common complaint that I have seen with the fan temperature change is that the fan is on all the time practically. It's more of an annoyance than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted July 26, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 26, 2015 I commute in very hot weather for a good portion of the year. I wouldn't lower the fan switch temp. Honda wouldn't set it to what they did without reason or if they thought it might sacrifice durability. And I also don't want the fan running all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorn Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 You'll notice a big difference with the cat gone and the bike mapped. It's there the flash shines even more.I also agree with this statement. The reflash and the Decat make a noticeable difference. I'm very pleased with the combination. Motor is very strong from the bottom up to 260km/h(so far)No flat spots and a powerful pull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted July 27, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2015 I commute in very hot weather for a good portion of the year. I wouldn't lower the fan switch temp. Honda wouldn't set it to what they did without reason or if they thought it might sacrifice durability. And I also don't want the fan running all the time. Different strokes for different folks. It's hot here, all summer, 100 degrees and high humidity. The fan coming on early, helps me, because it keeps the motor running cooler at stop lights or at very low speeds. So I would do it again tomorrow. I had the fan temp lowered on both bikes for this reason. Even if I was in a situation where it ran a whole lot more than it does, I'd gladly replace a fan over time as it keeps the motor cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rider14 Posted July 27, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2015 I'm gonna play it safe and keep the stock rev limit setting. Seems to me that horsepower is already dropping at 9K and torque at 10K, so I don't see how the benefit outweighs the risk. I just got the bike. I'll ride it hard but want the engine to last a long time. Question - isn't some of that drop off at 9k a function of the "soft" limiter I've been hearing about? And if so, isn't some of that drop off removed as a result of the reflash? - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer alleyoop Posted July 27, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2015 You'll notice a big difference with the cat gone and the bike mapped. It's there the flash shines even more.I also agree with this statement. The reflash and the Decat make a noticeable difference. I'm very pleased with the combination. Motor is very strong from the bottom up to 260km/h(so far)No flat spots and a powerful pull I'm doing a decat so glad to hear the flash works well here. So my only remaining concern is noise. I welcome a more rounded tone but don't necessarily want more decibels (I like the ability to be stealthy in my neighborhood). Did your decat make it noticeably louder? Or just give a deeper tone? I'm putting on a DAM Exhaust. I'm gonna play it safe and keep the stock rev limit setting. Seems to me that horsepower is already dropping at 9K and torque at 10K, so I don't see how the benefit outweighs the risk. I just got the bike. I'll ride it hard but want the engine to last a long time. Question - isn't some of that drop off at 9k a function of the "soft" limiter I've been hearing about? And if so, isn't some of that drop off removed as a result of the reflash? - Dan That's a good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 just FedEx'ed my ECU to Guhl this morning....been waiting long enough, had the money on hand.....the funny part....i was working on mounting my small key fob garage door opener on the bike and i dropped it right down between the tank and frame, it landed right in the ECU slot....so i had to open it up...lol i should win a stuffed animal for that shot......flying out to Vegas tomorrow so i won't be riding till next week anyway....perfect timing....not expecting big HP gain...i already have the z bomb so it will be nice to have the gear indicator back....looking forward to smoother low speed fueling by eliminating the fuel cut.....going with the rev limit increase and fan mod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer alleyoop Posted July 27, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2015 I shipped my ECU on Friday. But being right next door, yours will probably get there before mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted July 27, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2015 You'll notice a big difference with the cat gone and the bike mapped. It's there the flash shines even more.I also agree with this statement. The reflash and the Decat make a noticeable difference. I'm very pleased with the combination. Motor is very strong from the bottom up to 260km/h(so far)No flat spots and a powerful pull I'm doing a decat so glad to hear the flash works well here. So my only remaining concern is noise. I welcome a more rounded tone but don't necessarily want more decibels (I like the ability to be stealthy in my neighborhood). Did your decat make it noticeably louder? Or just give a deeper tone? I'm putting on a DAM Exhaust. Deeper tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 again, a Honda engine with a redline of 10,500 rpm is not going to blow up at 11,000 rpm is someone manufacturing the decat pipe or is everyone fabricating their own?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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