lshark Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 a cold engine has to run rich, whether it is a carburetor with a choke or enriching circuit or EFI....my VFR runs very rough when first started in the winter in NY...it's not rich enough for below freezing easy starts because most street bikes aren't used in those conditions ....my Honda snowblower will only run a few seconds on full choke in temps above 20F because it needs to be able to start at -20F....my Valkyrie will warm up for a couple of minutes on full "choke" (enricher ) ..... you can smell how rich my VFR runs on a cold start i have the Bazzaz Zf-i on mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorn Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I had Don Guhl do his reflash over the winter. I did some other mods with his work. Wow, my bike feels alot smoother and more powerful.I decatted the exaust,piped and k/n filter. What a difference. Feels like the motor has woken up.Very happy with the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted April 22, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2015 Always interested in people's experience with regards to mpg post Guhl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weven Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I agree Swim, we need fuel use after a flash. I can get 300 ks (190 miles) at the moment, just. Any comments ??????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted April 22, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2015 Before the flash I was good for about 320 ks. I am driving in a more "spirited" manner now that bike is so smooth so can't say if it is less fuel efficient. When next I slab it in auto mode, which gave me the best mileage, I'll see what the difference, if any, there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAWA Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 MPG read out on dash seemed to be the same maybe a touch better on the same roads that I have ridden before. Gas stops were at the same stations as always with about the same amount of gas used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 the heck with MPG....i want to see some post flash 1/4 mile ETs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weven Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Thanks gentleman that is good mpg news. Confirms what a Dyno expert here stated. If the bike is lean and the mixture is closer to 13 to 1 less throttle opening will be used in general riding. Less fuel !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STrider Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I've been contemplating the eventual replacement of my 06 ST1300 and the VFR1200 seems to be the logical choice for the following reasons: 1. It's a Honda 2. It's lighter 3. It's not going to be as comfortable as my Big Girl for STing, but with some tweaking it'll probably be awesome for most of what I want it for. 4. I love the looks of it. However, after reading this thread I've learned some things about the VFR1200 that I wasn't aware of previously. Specifically the low-speed jerkiness and drive line lash. The ST also exibits the same bad behavior and I'd hoped that the more modern Viffer would have evolved a bit. With time I've learned to overcome on the ST by being smooth on the throttle. Is this also the case with the Viffer, or is a re-flash the only cure? Finally, after reading all 11 pages of this thread there seems to be those who are convinced a re-flash is the dog's bollocks and others who feel it does nothing. Which I suppose is typical for this type of issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted April 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2015 I've been contemplating the eventual replacement of my 06 ST1300 and the VFR1200 seems to be the logical choice for the following reasons: 1. It's a Honda 2. It's lighter 3. It's not going to be as comfortable as my Big Girl for STing, but with some tweaking it'll probably be awesome for most of what I want it for. 4. I love the looks of it. However, after reading this thread I've learned some things about the VFR1200 that I wasn't aware of previously. Specifically the low-speed jerkiness and drive line lash. The ST also exibits the same bad behavior and I'd hoped that the more modern Viffer would have evolved a bit. With time I've learned to overcome on the ST by being smooth on the throttle. Is this also the case with the Viffer, or is a re-flash the only cure? Finally, after reading all 11 pages of this thread there seems to be those who are convinced a re-flash is the dog's bollocks and others who feel it does nothing. Which I suppose is typical for this type of issue. I've not had the flash but do not feel jerkiness in the throttle but there is significant driveline clunkiness at low speeds. Doesn't matter to me. I really like this motorcycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I've been contemplating the eventual replacement of my 06 ST1300 and the VFR1200 seems to be the logical choice for the following reasons: 1. It's a Honda 2. It's lighter 3. It's not going to be as comfortable as my Big Girl for STing, but with some tweaking it'll probably be awesome for most of what I want it for. 4. I love the looks of it. However, after reading this thread I've learned some things about the VFR1200 that I wasn't aware of previously. Specifically the low-speed jerkiness and drive line lash. The ST also exibits the same bad behavior and I'd hoped that the more modern Viffer would have evolved a bit. With time I've learned to overcome on the ST by being smooth on the throttle. Is this also the case with the Viffer, or is a re-flash the only cure? Finally, after reading all 11 pages of this thread there seems to be those who are convinced a re-flash is the dog's bollocks and others who feel it does nothing. Which I suppose is typical for this type of issue. I've refrained from posting in this thread because the title says only those who have flashed. But to answer your question, I've been riding my '10 for going on 3yrs now and while I do feel the tendency for low speed jerkiness, it doesn't bother me all that much. I've owned and ridden 10 bikes in the past 3-4yrs and the VFR1200 is not the worst. Like you said, I've just gotten used to riding with a very smooth throttle hand... regardless of which bike I happen to be riding. As the old saying goes... smooth is fast. Same thing with the 1st-2nd gear timing retard. If I'm in the performance riding mode, I don't short shift at low RPM, so the time I actually spent below 4500RPM in the lowest 2 gears is very very brief. And if I am just taking it easy in mellow mode, then whatever power cut is there isn't gonna bother me because, well... I'm mellowing. Won't argue with those who find the flash beneficial. We all ride differently. I'm glad Guhl offers a reflash for those who feel the need to. That said, not to discourage you from taking the plunge, but you really need to understand exactly what you are getting into with the VFR1200. There are far too many ST'ers who buy into a VFR1200 only to find out it is NOT what they thought it was. That was why there were so many low-mileage barely ridden '10's for sale a few year back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 There are far too many ST'ers who buy into a VFR1200 only to find out it is NOT what they thought it was. That was why there were so many low-mileage barely ridden '10's for sale a few year back. +1 There are far too many blackbird and vfr800 owners as well here, thinking the same way...and then complaining in the same manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted April 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2015 If you want to avoid the issues, then don't buy an early model. My 14 1200 has no low down fuelling issues that I've come across so far (I know, I've only done 600 miles so far). Last week I was riding her in 1st, 1500rpm at 10 mph purely on the throttle, slow turns and she was very, very smooth and easy to ride. Maybe I'm just lucky with this bike. I have yet to experience any driveline lash either, though this is my first shaftie and I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for but nothing has jumped out and grabbed my attention so far so it can't be that big a deal if it does exist. I'm not ruling out a Guhl flash, but at the moment I don't see a need for it, other than removing the low gear restrictions which I haven't really pushed so far so I may change my mind. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Oh you will, you will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted April 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2015 If you want to avoid the issues, then don't buy an early model. My 14 1200 has no low down fuelling issues that I've come across so far (I know, I've only done 600 miles so far). Last week I was riding her in 1st, 1500rpm at 10 mph purely on the throttle, slow turns and she was very, very smooth and easy to ride. Maybe I'm just lucky with this bike. I have yet to experience any driveline lash either, though this is my first shaftie and I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for but nothing has jumped out and grabbed my attention so far so it can't be that big a deal if it does exist. I'm not ruling out a Guhl flash, but at the moment I don't see a need for it, other than removing the low gear restrictions which I haven't really pushed so far so I may change my mind. Time will tell. Completely agree with these comments. No lash issues on either bike. The 2010 has benefited from the flash in the lower gear range but we left 2012 alone as it was noticeably smoother and not clunky like the 2010. Sent from my cerebellum using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rider14 Posted April 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2015 My 2010 is pretty smooth - I'm with Volfy so far. Going easy on the throttle covers any low speed stuttering. The first and second gear limitation issue really only arises when looking to fly from low speed. When I go fast, I'm usually already up in the RPM range, so it's limited to 1st gear (I don't shift until I'm high the rev range, so 2nd gear hasn't been an issue) but it is noticeable. I'm still on the fence on the reflash, but I'd also like to get rid of the dip that occurs around 4-5k in the range, which can be smoothed out with a new fuel map. I'd also like to remove the servo motor and don't want the error light on the dash. I don't ever see a need for the top speed restriction to be removed, but I guess that's nice if I'm ever in a real hurry to a hospital or something (which does happen...) As I make better friends with the bike (bought in November, less than 500 miles on it so far due to winter and lingering cold) I'll make a decision. I bought OEM luggage, which wasn't cheap, but adds function not already there. THe reflash is an improvement to what already works pretty damn well, so it's not a high priority. I'm struggling between suspension vs. reflash when funds allow. - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'd also like to remove the servo motor and don't want the error light on the dash. I don't ever see a need for the top speed restriction to be removed, but I guess that's nice if I'm ever in a real hurry to a hospital or something (which does happen...) I bought a CBR1000RR servo eliminator for that. I like the fact that if I ever sell the bike, I can put all the stock bits back on and flip the servo eliminator back on fleabay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAWA Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 THE BIG DIFFERANCE IS THE MIDRANGE the soft feeling around 4000 rpm is gone it now pulls like a 1200cc bike should. Now if you you're riding along at 55-60mph in 6th you just open throttle and go making passing much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rider14 Posted April 23, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2015 THE BIG DIFFERANCE IS THE MIDRANGE the soft feeling around 4000 rpm is gone it now pulls like a 1200cc bike should. Now if you you're riding along at 55-60mph in 6th you just open throttle and go making passing much easier. That's a function of the fuel mapping, which I guess you can also solve with a power commander. It's the bonus of all of the other things at once - saving the gear indicator with the benefits of a Z-Bomb, the benefits of a servo eliminator, plus a fuel map that theoretically has been developed to smooth out the power delivery in one fell swoop (plus changing the temp the fan turns on, raising the RPM limiter (if you dare), top speed limiter removal, etc.) Lot of benefit to the reflash - will probably go ahead with it when funds allow rather than adding servo eliminator for $50, a z-bomb for $50, etc. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAWA Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 THE BIG DIFFERANCE IS THE MIDRANGE the soft feeling around 4000 rpm is gone it now pulls like a 1200cc bike should. Now if you you're riding along at 55-60mph in 6th you just open throttle and go making passing much easier. That's a function of the fuel mapping, which I guess you can also solve with a power commander. It's the bonus of all of the other things at once - saving the gear indicator with the benefits of a Z-Bomb, the benefits of a servo eliminator, plus a fuel map that theoretically has been developed to smooth out the power delivery in one fell swoop (plus changing the temp the fan turns on, raising the RPM limiter (if you dare), top speed limiter removal, etc.) Lot of benefit to the reflash - will probably go ahead with it when funds allow rather than adding servo eliminator for $50, a z-bomb for $50, etc. -Dan Would think putting timing back in has something to do with it, something a power commander can not do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 THE BIG DIFFERANCE IS THE MIDRANGE the soft feeling around 4000 rpm is gone it now pulls like a 1200cc bike should. Now if you you're riding along at 55-60mph in 6th you just open throttle and go making passing much easier. That's a function of the fuel mapping, which I guess you can also solve with a power commander. It's the bonus of all of the other things at once - saving the gear indicator with the benefits of a Z-Bomb, the benefits of a servo eliminator, plus a fuel map that theoretically has been developed to smooth out the power delivery in one fell swoop (plus changing the temp the fan turns on, raising the RPM limiter (if you dare), top speed limiter removal, etc.) Lot of benefit to the reflash - will probably go ahead with it when funds allow rather than adding servo eliminator for $50, a z-bomb for $50, etc. -Dan No, it is a function of a ignition map. Plus a throttle valves are a limit here - they do not open fully. As I'm aware the fuel map has like only 20% share in this problem. Its a combination of a few things. Talk to Don, I'm sure he will explain everything if you would be able to reach him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Well, since nobody else is willing to do so, I decided to detach my panniers, install my ram gopro mount and go to Germany. Went direction Stuttgart - that autobahn is not a very good idea when you want to test your top speed but I was not willing to ride 200kms more just for the test. What happened that RAM mount will not hold anything above 200kph - it starts to shake over 150kph. After passing 250kph the gopro hit my tank and stayed there. I found a slight paint nick later! Can be polished I hope. So I have some videos but very blurry, damn thing was shaking all the time...I have to buy a tank inlet gopro mount which is a solid metal bolted to the tank - this will hold. Anybody seen one for the vifer? As the results, Mr. Kainzinger you are lying that you removed the speed limiter. The bike will easily, again very easily hit 11k limiter in a 5th gear. I saw 278 kph when I realized I'm on the 11k rev limiter already...Its hard to concentrate on the which gear are you currently when you ride so fast. I did a few passes where there's no limit(yes, autobahn is not all the way without limit). Traffic was heavy today so I saw 296 after I ran out of space (f..carger on the way)and the bike was still pulling... So, I believe seeing 300 kph on the speedo would not be so difficult. How much exaclty that would be with gps? I don't know. I found that my phone will lose the gps signal when I put it in my pocket(was using the DigiHUD app - great app). Of course I have a RAM mount with a soft case for my phone but as stated above I don't want to lose it on the way. I like RAM products a lot but keep in mind they will not hold such a high speeds. Promise to have a good video next time. Oh one more thing to add. The engine control light went on a few times. Not sure it has anything to do with the Guhl's reflash. I had similar issues with the oil level light on my v-maxes during high acceleration but its was always off after a few sec. Here the yellow light would on stay until I switch the ignition off - after starting again it was gone. Not sure what was that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Correction, my gps speedo was running. It happens I don't know that program so well yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasty Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 TOP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 wow...that's 178 mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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