Flash Ecu Vfr1200 Conclusion... Please Only Experience From People Who Have Theire 1200Ecu Flashed, No Speculations Only Facts!

[motorn]

The funny thing about the ecu reflash is my non flashed, bike runs good with a pipe and k+n filter. But I feel like I'm missing out on better performance.I don't seem to have the stumbling problems some owners are experiencing. I don't understand how a mass production machine,can vary from bike to bike.Even with that said,I still want the ecu reflashed.It will be fun to let it run on the top end,and let it run cooler.Still alot of effort has gone into this project,with the ecu,and you have to appreciate that..I will report my opinion after Don does his magic.

[swimmer]

going back to VFRWorld soon....i'd like to know why my thread about the RC213V-S prototype was deleted.....i thought that some VFR owners might be interested in the new 9th Gen Honda V-Four....i guess not....did i offend someone???? what is going on on this forum.....?????

It was posted in the wrong section. As simple as that.

why is it the wrong section ?? i posted it for you guys to see....there is no 9th Gen section......if you have already seen the bike, don't click on the link.....taking the post down so that no one can see it is wrong

Not a VFR so why would it be 9th gen?

[Guest Recalcitrance]

Please remember to stay on topic.

The previous four threads were merged then deleted due to too much guess work and not enough personal experience. This thread is starting to pull off in that direction.

In addition, please remember that moderator actions are for the benefit of the forum and its members. If you have questions about an action that was taken regarding posts, please contact a moderator directly rather than voicing it in the threads as this is also off topic and will be deleted.

VFRD is neither associated with nor responsible for the product(s) or service(s) advertised in this thread. Members assume all risks and liabilities.

[Veefer800Canuck]

I didn't see the original thread on the 213v, there are probably a zillion threads on the new bike revealed at EICMA

I didn't delete it, and forums are not like the dictionary or the encyclopedia, information comes and goes.

It's fast

It's expensive

It's from MotoGP

It's a Honda

This thread is for ECU flashing of the 1200 VFR

Let's keep it that way.

Ishark, it's not that big a deal.

[Skids]

So would a re-flash, Z-Bomb AND a Power Commander be advisable? Do they complement each other or would fitting one make another superfluous? Does the re-flash act as a new map and make a PC pointless, is a Z-Bomb necessary if the ECU has been re-flashed?

Struggling to understand their interactions with each other and whether or not they're applicable to a 2014 UK model (does it have the same power limits in 1/2/3/6th gears, top speed limit etc as Euro and US models).

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I plan to ride the bike a few miles before I start making big decisions but I'd like to understand the potential decisions a little better.

Apologies if any of the above are dumb questions.

[dynajohn]

It is not a dumb question Skids. What year VFR 12 are you buying and is it a F or DCT model? The decision on whether to get a Guhl re-flash as well as installing a power commander and a Zbomb is understandable given the amount of posts here on this subject. Lets look at what each of these choices do for you and the cost of each of them.

The Zbomb--eliminates the stock power limitation in 1st & 2nd gear. It also screws up your gear indicator (gear indicator only indicates 3rd thru 6th gear) Cost is about $70 which is very low for the increase in performance.

Power Commander (PC5)--With the proper fuel map for your bike the PC5 will correct the fueling problems most of which are below 5000 RPM's. The PC5 will not eliminate the stock ECU power restrictions in 1st & 2nd gear. You will need to use a Zbomb with the PC5 to get the fuel correction and full power in 1st & 2nd gears. The PC5 is strictly a device to alter the fueling on this bike. Cost for the PC5 is from $275 to $325 here in the US. There are still ECU restrictions that the PC5 and the Zbomb will not eliminate. The top speed limiter will remain and this acts as a power limiter in 5th & 6th. There are no ECU power restriction in 3rd & 4th gears on US or English bikes. If you live where Bassie does you are truly screwed with a ECU that is limited everywhere and the PC5 will not eliminate any ECU programmed power restrictions on any VFR 12 no matter what country it is sold in.

Guhl re-flash--Eliminates all the power restrictions in all gears. You have a choice on what other ECU changes you want. You can eliminate the top speed limiter. You can raise the RPM limiter. You can lower the coolant temperature by altering the fan setting. You can disable the alarm code if you remove the actuator for the stock muffler secondary. You can have the ignition timing advanced. You can have a new fuel map installed which eliminates the need for a PC5. Cost is $350 plus shipping. You do not need a Zbomb if you have the ECU re-flash done.

The only advantage to combining a re-flash and a PC5 is that you have the ability to alter the fuel map yourself. If you are racing the bike there is the potential to get a few more HP but for the average guy there is no advantage to doing both, just more cost.

[Skids]

It is not a dumb question Skids. What year VFR 12 are you buying and is it a F or DCT model? The decision on whether to get a Guhl re-flash as well as installing a power commander and a Zbomb is understandable given the amount of posts here on this subject. Lets look at what each of these choices does for you and the cost of each of them.

The Zbomb--eliminates the stock power limitation in 1st & 2nd gear. It also screws up your gear indicator (gear indicator only indicates 3rd thru 6th gear) Cost is about $70 which is very low for the increase in performance.

Power Commander (PC5)--With the proper fuel map for your bike the PC5 will correct the fueling problems most of which are below 5000 RPM's. The PC5 will not eliminate the stock ECU power restrictions in 1st & 2nd gear. You will need to use a Zbomb with the PC5 to get the fuel correction and full power in 1st & 2nd gears. The PC5 is strictly a device to alter the fueling on this bike. Cost for the PC5 is from $275 to $325 here in the US. There are still ECU restrictions that the PC5 and the Zbomb will not eliminate. The top speed limiter will remain and this acts as a power limiter in 5th & 6th. There are no ECU power restriction in 3rd & 4th gears on US or English bikes. If you live where Bassie does you are truly screwed with a ECU that is limited everywhere and the PC5 will not eliminate any ECU programmed power restrictions on any VFR 12 no matter what country it is sold in.

Guhl re-flash--Eliminates all the power restrictions in all gears. You have a choice on what other ECU changes you want. You can eliminate the top speed limiter. You can raise the RPM limiter. You can lower the coolant temperature by altering the fan setting. You can disable the alarm code if you remove the actuator for the stock muffler secondary. You can have the ignition timing advanced. You can have a new fuel map installed which eliminates the need for a PC5. Cost is $350 plus shipping. You do not need a Zbomb if you have the ECU re-flash done.

The only advantage to combining a re-flash and a PC5 is that you have the ability to alter the fuel map yourself. If you are racing the bike there is the potential to get a few more HP but for the average guy there is no advantage to doing both, just more cost.

John, thank you very much for taking the time to type that explanation for me. It makes it an awful lot clearer.

I'm currently awaiting the right deal on a 2014 DCT and spending my time looking at what I want to do to the bike and what I may do, this being one of them.

I guess, from your explanation above, I'll need to wait until I have the bike a while and have made a final decision on end can and any other engine-related farkles before I consider committing to a re-flash of the ECU.

Many thanks again.

[dynajohn]

That is what I would do. The DCT complicates the situation if you are considering using a power commander because the bike cannot be dyno tuned. You can install a power commander on a DCT and use a dynojet map but you cannot accurately set the 100% throttle position on the PC5 without running it on a dyno at full throttle. The fuel maps Don is using with the DCT ECU's are the same as the F model maps. By the time you are ready for a re-flash he may have figured out the ECU restriction that prevents the bike from being run on a dyno.

[motorn]

So is the bottom end performance dramatically increased with the re-flash? If so the 0-60 times should be lowered. Just trying to wrap my head around a stronger bottom end,or is it just a smoother throttle transition? Is the difference only felt at full throttle in first and second gear,or in partial throttle openings? Thanks

[arrow]

Dynojohn, could you please explain the ignition advance part? I had Rapidbike III on my old supercharged VFR800 VTEC and it had ignition advance capability which the dyno tuner used to great advantage. But I'd think that this would be done on the dyno for each bike, how does Guhl do it, what's the basis for his new ignition map? I'd like to look at this option, but I'm not sure if it'd apply to my Euro spec bike which is ridden in Turkey...

I'm really thinking hard about sending my ECU to Guhl, I just need to get off my lazy ass and rip the fairing's off...

[dynajohn]

Arrow he does need a test bike on his dyno to custom remap the ignition. When I sent my ECU back to Don for the 2nd time to have the speed limiter removed he had flashed a bike from the UK and he told me the ignition maps for the UK VFR's were more aggressive than the US model and he had apparently copied the more aggressive Honda UK map. I had him install the UK ignition maps in my ECU. I didn't see any difference in HP or TQ when I tested the bike on a dyno to verify the speed limiter was gone.

I have not talked to Don since April when he did the 2nd re-flash on my bike so I don't know if he has had a VFR on his dyno to develop his own custom fuel & ignition mapping or not. When we worked together to develop the first re-flash he really wanted a bike in his shop to test the re-flash and optimize his own fuel and ignition maps. We could not find anyone with a VFR 1200 near Dons shop willing to lend him a bike for testing. The guys that had fuel mapping installed in the first four ECU's re-flashed that wanted a fuel map installed got dynojet maps that were already created. Nothing wrong with that but I know Don wanted a test bike to see how much more he could pull out of the bike developing his own fuel & ignition maps.

[motorn]

With all the good information here,I'm sending Don my ecu. I pulled it out and boxed it up. I won't be able to post my results till spring. Thanks

[RobbieRabbit]

Hello all,

After a fine conversation with Bas(from Belgium) I also let my dutch full power 2012 DCT flashed bij Don Guhl.

My bike is equiped with K&N filters and a open DAM exhaust.

As a prove that the restrictions in first, second and third gear are gone i made a video before and after the flash.

The bike is super smooth in right now in all gears and also more powerfull in the higher gears than before.

I would definitly recommend the flash to everyone, you won't regret.

On my bike i have installed a speedohealer, so the speed on the speedometer is corrected and equal to the gps speed.

Before:

http://youtu.be/Xv7lE57VSfU

After 0-150kmh 0- 93mph= 5sec:

http://youtu.be/Y8ddVPrK40s

[Switchblade]

Holly sh#t what a beast !

Got me excited ..

[EhViffer]

Hello all,

After a fine conversation with Bas(from Belgium) I also let my dutch full power 2012 DCT flashed bij Don Guhl.

My bike is equiped with K&N filters and a open DAM exhaust.

As a prove that the restrictions in first, second and third gear are gone i made a video before and after the flash.

The bike is super smooth in right now in all gears and also more powerfull in the higher gears than before.

I would definitly recommend the flash to everyone, you won't regret.

On my bike i have installed a speedohealer, so the speed on the speedometer is corrected and equal to the gps speed.

Before:

http://youtu.be/Xv7lE57VSfU

After 0-150kmh 0- 93mph= 5sec:

http://youtu.be/Y8ddVPrK40s

Thanks very much for posting this. I also had my 1200 flashed but am unable to get out until the cold weather leaves in the spring. I have an open DAM as well so this looks very promising. Tell me more about "speedohealer" as I have same issue in that there is about a 10 km difference between my Garmin GPS reading and the speedo. Oh wait ...

The great interweb has revealed the "speedohealer" answer. Product ordered.

Once again a member on VFRD has helped resolve an issue with my bike that was irritating me.

[RobbieRabbit]

Pay attention when connecting the speedohealer, that you install the device between your abs modulator and Speedometer(Between abs modulator and ecu will result in a bike that don't want to shift up anymore, speed/rpm mismatch, my own experience :-) ), the wire-tree to the speedometer/dash is behind the left fairing, you need to cut the Pink-Green VSP wire, now solder the wire coming of backside of the bike to the healer white signal wire, the black and red power+/- to your accesoire harness(if you have one) which is also behind the left fairing an the last green wire to the speedometer pink-green wire. Use heat shrink to protect it to the elements. I have placed the very tiny little control unit behind the battery so you can reach it easily.

I also installed the micro button under the seat to retrieve and reset the maximum achieved speed, my correction factor is -1,06(-6%).

The speedohealer only had one disadvantage and that's that the odo/trip meter after installation also is corrected by your calibration value.

Good luck with the installation.

[fdbgt]

I have a 2010 VFR1200 manual that I bought used with about 4800 miles on the odo. As soon as I bought it, I installed the Z-Bomb which did eliminate the 1st/2nd gear limitation. At this point, I had to become very aware of throttle positioning at low speeds in order not to spin the rear tire, which I managed to do numerous times, sometimes at rather inopportune moments. The bike performed better but the low speed fueling was something that I had to work around at times and try to compensate for.

Finally, over Thanksgiving, I pulled the ECU and the Z-Bomb and sent the ECU to Guhl. I had Don remove the 1st/2nd limitations, lower the thermostat setting, remove the top speed limitation, leave the redline at the stock 10,500, and load his recommended fuel maps. I had already disconnected the exhaust flap cable at the actuator for a more pleasing exhaust note but since I may reconnect it at some point, I did not have him remove control (and hence the error light) for the removal of the actuator.

My first impression after reinstalling the reflashed ECU was "wow, the beast has awakened!". The throttle response was much more immediate and forceful - it was quite a change, even over the de-limitation provided by the Z-Bomb. After a few rides into the office, I can save that the fuel mapping is much better in addition to the better performance. The "compensation" that I used to try to apply manually at low speeds is now no longer needed and the bike is much smoother. However, I will say that with no traction control, concentration in this area for me is needed more than ever.

With Heli-bars, a different leather seat cover on the stock seat foam, different grips, a louder horn, a new set of Michelins, and the reflashed ECU, its finally what it should have been!! I am now very happy with the bike. Its very smooth and deceptively quick with great brakes.

[Skids]

For 2012+ models, does the Guhl flash remove the TC or does that remain in place.

[hvfrdave]

Personally I don't know, but the traction control is that basic, I would not let it concern you.

[Skids]

Personally I don't know, but the traction control is that basic, I would not let it concern you.

Ok. Do you mean it doesn't really do its job properly ie plenty of situations where the rear wheel does lose traction?

Hopefully, with the flash, the low rev fuelling will be such that throttle control is much easier.

[Tamworth]

Personally I don't know, but the traction control is that basic, I would not let it concern you.

Ok. Do you mean it doesn't really do its job properly ie plenty of situations where the rear wheel does lose traction?

Hopefully, with the flash, the low rev fuelling will be such that throttle control is much easier.

Don's ecu mod does not remove traction control on the models that have it (and it does not add it to models that do not have it).

The 1200, even without traction control, does not loose traction on the rear wheel unless you are riding very aggressively for the road conditions. You would have to make a very concerted effort to spin it up. In normal dry conditions it's almost impossible to loose rear wheel traction unless you are in full race mode.

In my experience the ecu mod does nothing to smooth out the engine in slow traffic situations. The drive line still slaps back and forth when idling along in slow moving traffic.

I'm running a 2010 standard shift. Don did add a fuel map for the Akropovic pipe, it has made no noticeable difference. The only benefit to me has been the de-restricted 2nd gear.

[Fasty]

Tamworth, without starting an endless discussion i dissagree... for me there do is lot of change i had also ignition deristriction and standard fuel map, k&n en stock exhaust. here driving below 10°C i must be carefull when hitting throthle in 1st. my weight 100Kgs does not Always give enough downforce to the back. i had a few spins...

i compare to a Belgium 173Hp ecu with Zbom

[Auspanglish]

It is not a dumb question Skids. What year VFR 12 are you buying and is it a F or DCT model? The decision on whether to get a Guhl re-flash as well as installing a power commander and a Zbomb is understandable given the amount of posts here on this subject. Lets look at what each of these choices do for you and the cost of each of them.

The Zbomb--eliminates the stock power limitation in 1st & 2nd gear. It also screws up your gear indicator (gear indicator only indicates 3rd thru 6th gear) Cost is about $70 which is very low for the increase in performance.

Power Commander (PC5)--With the proper fuel map for your bike the PC5 will correct the fueling problems most of which are below 5000 RPM's. The PC5 will not eliminate the stock ECU power restrictions in 1st & 2nd gear. You will need to use a Zbomb with the PC5 to get the fuel correction and full power in 1st & 2nd gears. The PC5 is strictly a device to alter the fueling on this bike. Cost for the PC5 is from $275 to $325 here in the US. There are still ECU restrictions that the PC5 and the Zbomb will not eliminate. The top speed limiter will remain and this acts as a power limiter in 5th & 6th. There are no ECU power restriction in 3rd & 4th gears on US or English bikes. If you live where Bassie does you are truly screwed with a ECU that is limited everywhere and the PC5 will not eliminate any ECU programmed power restrictions on any VFR 12 no matter what country it is sold in.

Guhl re-flash--Eliminates all the power restrictions in all gears. You have a choice on what other ECU changes you want. You can eliminate the top speed limiter. You can raise the RPM limiter. You can lower the coolant temperature by altering the fan setting. You can disable the alarm code if you remove the actuator for the stock muffler secondary. You can have the ignition timing advanced. You can have a new fuel map installed which eliminates the need for a PC5. Cost is $350 plus shipping. You do not need a Zbomb if you have the ECU re-flash done.

The only advantage to combining a re-flash and a PC5 is that you have the ability to alter the fuel map yourself. If you are racing the bike there is the potential to get a few more HP but for the average guy there is no advantage to doing both, just more cost.

The above info + that regarding Traction Control, should be placed at the start of some thread like this one in order to save people having to read umpteen pages of dispersed bits n pieces!!

... and then call it (in a toungue and cheek fashion) THE IDIOTS GUIDE TO FLASHING... (and see how many visits it gets from expositionists while we're at it!!).

[motorn]

Keep in mind the restrictions are different from North American bikes to European bikes. On this side of the pond the improvement won't seem as drastic as forgien bikes. There should be two separate threads on this.North American and forgien bikes because one machine will feel dramatically improved,as the other is more of a Suttle improvement

[Tamworth]

Tamworth, without starting an endless discussion i dissagree... for me there do is lot of change i had also ignition deristriction and standard fuel map, k&n en stock exhaust. here driving below 10°C i must be carefull when hitting throthle in 1st. my weight 100Kgs does not Always give enough downforce to the back. i had a few spins...

i compare to a Belgium 173Hp ecu with Zbom

Your situation has nothing to do with North American models and can not be compared in any way. It's really not even the same bike in Belgium. When the 1200 owners from Belgium talk about the re-flash improvements they never mention this fact. This is why the title of this thread is very confusing.