Talk Some Sense Into Me (Or Encouage Me, Your Choice)- Newbie On A 1200 + 1000 Mile Inaugural Ride?

[Guest SuperslabRider]

Hi folks, nice forum you have here. Been lurking for a little while, but I've read about everything I can get my hands on, so I figured it's time to actually join the discussion. Sorry, this got a little long.

I'm a mid-30s guy who is in the process of trading a wife for guns and a motorcycle. So far, it's been a fair trade, and a helluva lot more fun. I have very little riding experience- mostly limited to bombing around a friend's farm on a < 250 dirt bike as a teenager. I'm scheduled to take my MSF class next week. That said, I feel like the days where I'm going to kill myself on a fast bike or otherwise be needlessly unsafe or irresponsible are behind me, so I'm seriously considering jumping straight into a nice bike for my first.

Obviously, I'm here because the VFR1200 has risen to the top of my short list. I haven't test ridden anything yet, but I have sat on just about everything appealing, and between that and what I've read, I think the VFR is for me. I'm a bigger guy (6'1, 270), so I have no interest in hunching over on a true sportbike, but I'm not ready for a Goldwing. People seem to whine that the VFR is compromised, but the niche it creates between sport and touring is right where I want to be. Besides, I'm a bit of a Honda whore, having driven Honda and Acura cars pretty much exclusively for the last 10+ years. There is one used VFR that's at a dealership near me that's available for a test ride, but it's a DCT, which I won't buy. My plan is to take care of my MSF class, then ride it, just to be sure the overall experience works. Assuming I get that far, it's onto the next step...

The good part. Browsing cycletrader.com reveals that there are plenty of new VFRs- even some 2010s!- still sitting in dealer showrooms. Unfortunately, I'm in Bumpkinville, Nebraska, so they're all 500+ miles away. My thought is to do a deal over the phone, then fly or drive a rental car out to pick it up. Could be Iowa, could be Oregon, could be anywhere! I've done this a number of times with cars and it was always a great time.

So my question is, am I crazy? I know conventional wisdom is to start with a small, cheap bike, but assuming I don't discover anything bad during my MSF class, I think that's a waste of time and money in my case. Would you consider a brand new rider setting off on a 1000 mile journey for his first real ride to be insane? Am I completely out of line by having it mostly narrowed down to a VFR without ever even riding a real, modern street bike?

Any thoughts or words of wisdom are welcome.

[TNRabbit]

That's a lot of bike for your first....just sayin'.....

[carlgustav]

I don't think the size of the 1st bike matters too much if you're mature enough to understand your limitations (which many teens who jump on 'busas ... ain't). But, a 1000 mi. ride on your 1st bike, that's going to be intense. It's nothing like driving a car 1000 miles, does not compare. My 1st bike was a 650 BSA in '74. My 1st 'long' trip was St. Louis to Chicago & back on that girl, and I rode with a friend which increased the safety factor. Just remember not to push near as hard as you would in a car, if you do this.

ACE

[Guest]

I don't think the size of the 1st bike matters too much if you're mature enough to understand your limitations (which many teens who jump on 'busas ... ain't). But, a 1000 mi. ride on your 1st bike, that's going to be intense. It's nothing like driving a car 1000 miles, does not compare. My 1st bike was a 650 BSA in '74. My 1st 'long' trip was St. Louis to Chicago & back on that girl, and I rode with a friend which increased the safety factor. Just remember not to push near as hard as you would in a car, if you do this.

ACE

Definitely. I forgot to specify this, but my intention would be to pack super light (buy some soft saddlebags ahead of time or something) and make the trip home a multi-day mini-vacation and hit any scenic spots on the way. You know, enjoy the motorcycle experience. Let's say a few hundred miles a day with plenty of stops.

As for the size of a first bike, I've always heard those cautions in the context of not having the maturity to handle the power. I think I do, so I agree with your assessment. Thanks for your thoughts.

[spud786]

I really wouldn't focus so much on the bike and more on learning to ride, cause 90% of them get run over in their first year no matter what they get (some in the first 30 days), A vfr weighs enough it will hurt you bad if you crash it. So a lighter easy bike might cause less damage, when you crash or the car runs over ya after it pulls out in front of you. Plus a vfr eats and breeds speed , it carries it very well, inexperience with landing can be quite the opposite.

MSF is great for some initial training, but even their graduates get run over, they all do. So Id open your eyes more into whats incorporated into learning to ride than what bike to start off ,and a vfr 800 or 1200, a grandma can ride on in a straight line( but add in all the stuff they need to know and how to execute ) they are high risk for failure, and the street is unforgiving. Just get something and ride it, and a bike that requires you to actually work for speed, you'll learn a lot more development wise.

Ive you seen those little Honda Groms?

[Marsman99]

I always encourage adventurism. However, going from a dirt bike to the 1200 is quite a step. Have you thought about buying a more manageable bike first? There will be a Gen7 available when you're ready. BTW, if you do proceed with your plan, maybe the DCT is actually a better choice, one more variable you don't have to deal with. I love mine - auto shift or clutch-less manual shift, have it your way. It's hard to get back on one of my clutch bikes now.

[Cogswell]

I too started on dirt bikes, then went to a 4th gen for my first road bike. What took me quite some time to realize was that I did not have the skills from dirt riding to handle survival reactions such as target fixation, running wide on a curve, understanding what happens when braking while cornering, or how to handle a larger, heavier bike in slow speed maneuvers - etc. Also, the speeds I went off road were nothing like what you'll do on-highway, and a 1200 can get there in a big hurry. No matter what you buy, training beyond the basic MSF course is highly recommended. Get a copy of Keith Code's "A Twist of the Wrist II" and watch it over and over and if you can, go to some track days where they have sessions for newer riders. Well worth it.

[Guest]

I really wouldn't focus so much on the bike and more on learning to ride, cause 90% of them get run over in their first year no matter what they get (some in the first 30 days), A vfr weighs enough it will hurt you bad if you crash it. So a lighter easy bike might cause less damage, when you crash or the car runs over ya after it pulls out in front of you. Plus a vfr eats and breeds speed , it carries it very well, inexperience with landing can be quite the opposite.

MSF is great for some initial training, but even their graduates get run over, they all do. So Id open your eyes more into whats incorporated into learning to ride than what bike to start off ,and a vfr 800 or 1200, a grandma can ride on in a straight line( but add in all the stuff they need to know and how to execute ) they are high risk for failure, and the street is unforgiving. Just get something and ride it, and a bike that requires you to actually work for speed, you'll learn a lot more development wise.

Ive you seen those little Honda Groms?

That's a good point, I hadn't really made an effort to separate the two. Unfortunately, I can't really ride until I'm done with my class next week, so I guess I've devoted more time to thinking about the hardware. Can you explain what you mean by learing a lot more development wise by having to work for speed? I think I get what you mean, but I want to make sure.

As for the Grom, I appreciate it for what it is, but A) I would look absolutely ridiculous on it, and B) I'm going to need a little more than 60 MPH flat out.

I always encourage adventurism. However, going from a dirt bike to the 1200 is quite a step. Have you thought about buying a more manageable bike first? There will be a Gen7 available when you're ready. BTW, if you do proceed with your plan, maybe the DCT is actually a better choice, one more variable you don't have to deal with. I love mine - auto shift or clutch-less manual shift, have it your way. It's hard to get back on one of my clutch bikes now.

I certainly have thought about other bikes, and to be sure, nothing is off the table yet. That said, the hassle of buying, selling, and buying again before this riding season is done (or in spring when prices go back up) is not something I'm really keen on. I've made an effort to talk to as many riders as I can lately, and specifically ask if they went the starter bike route. They almost universally think it was a mistake because they outgrew it so quickly.

Re: DCT- The only automatic vehicle I have ever purchased is my Tacoma. I'm very much a manual transmssion guy. But I'll give it a fair chance.

It seems the argument against starting on a bike like the VFR boils down to two points. First, you're going to kill yourself with something so powerful. And second, you're inevitably going to drop or wreck it, so why do that to a nice bike? As for the first point, that's all down to the rider, and I feel confident I can control myself. As for #2, that is a fair point, but I think I'm coming to this decision at an auspicous time to address that one. There are hundreds of NEW VFRs out there that will soon be 2-5 years old. The dealers surely want to move them, and Honda corporate badly wants them moved too. I've seen 2013s advertised for $10,500. Frankly, I like the blue, so a 2012 works even more in my favor. There are real deals to be had.

Just for fun, I spent the last 20 minutes looking up reviews for most of the bottom end of Honda's current "sport" lineup, including the Grom, CB300F, CB500F, CBR650F, and VFR800. Only when you get to the 650 do they stop complaining about the bike being gutless or uncomfortable on the freeway. I can only assume the same general trend holds for most other manufacturers. For better or worse, much of my riding will be on the freeway, so it's either a marginal 650 class bike or a step up to something with real power. The next step up is a VFR800 which, at a roughly equal price and 2/3 the horsepower, just doesn't seem like a good deal. The used bike selection in my area is so poor that I haven't even seriously considered one.

I will admit, I've fallen for the VFR1200, but I'm really trying to make an effort to approach this logically. The real bummer is that this is all bench racing. Thanks to general bike scarcity in my area and bike dealers' attitudes toward test riding new bikes, it's going to have to be substantially that way.

Thanks for all your input, lots to think about.

[luvtoleanit]

Bike is too heavy for a beginner, period, point blank. You need to get something like a SV650 for 1-2 years. Jumping right on a 600lb bike that makes >150HP is a recipe for a disaster. Then intending to ride it that distance without experience is even more danger.

I hear ya on the wife thing, had to make that choice myself with the fiancé. But don't go jumping off a cliff. Would you hand someone a 50cal for their first gun? You've got new freedom so take it one step at a time. Don't woman to read about you getting hurt. Your first bike needs to be lighter with a lower power output for your own good. A SV can be toured on and if you buy used you can sell it for what you paid for it.

[Dutchy]

Wrecking is NOT always down to the rider, plenty social media checking, plain ignorant and bad luck out there. Especially on a freeway

Tempting as the VFR1200 is (I have ridden all varieties), it IS to large a first bike (bulk and performance)

The argument of "stress to buy another bike this season" is bogus; unless you know for a fact you have 12 months to live..... In that case get a Busa

You will find a bike like a SV650 pllenty fun and powerfull, the fun is in the skill of handling not straight out power (queue the Busa).

so what if you bought a used SV and sell it next year, loosing maybe 2-300 in lower resale... One drop of your new VFR1200 will be a multitude.

(motorcycle)life is not a 100 metre sprint, with luck it is a journey of a lifetime with plenty roses to smell along the way....

You will never stop learning either by the way...

Good luck!

[spud786]

That's a good point, I hadn't really made an effort to separate the two. Unfortunately, I can't really ride until I'm done with my class next week, so I guess I've devoted more time to thinking about the hardware. Can you explain what you mean by learning a lot more development wise by having to work for speed? I think I get what you mean, but I want to make sure.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Id like a Grom for myself >G

Agility and weight goes a long way in learning to ride, street bikes your pretty much stuck in one position, that actually hampers the possibilities. You give up the ability to easily stand and execute body english moves. Now imagine a cruiser with forward pegs, your pretty much stuck on your A$$ for eternity, not my idea of riding.

I realize that you've skipped a whole generation of learning, and want to plop right on a big sport tour, But a little hard ship will serve you well in learning how to make a bike work, while getting accustomed to the Tactics needed on the street. Your riding environment will have an effect on you, are you going to have a lot of narrow and twisty back roads, or are they all big , high-speed and flat. There are Dual sports like the KLR or the Xl650, these will let you ride the street, plus give you the option of exploring, jumping curbs and riding trails, its a better developmental package, than just plopping down 6k on a GS500 and being limited to one aspect of riding . You miss out on stuff that will serve you well down the road, and your not out $2000 when the bike falls over, cause you forgot to put the kickstand down.

A 100 or 150 horse bike can take a half dozen cars in one shot, smaller motors like say 40 horse, planning and timing these type of executions, are more based one at a time, that's learning. Keeping your momentum up with bikes that don't readily make a lot of power, are developmental skills.

Anyway this would be an idea plan to casually enter the world of motorcycling, learn something and see if you are going to stick to it.

Other wise there are a lot of bikes in that 650cc range that people buy as entry level bikes, and they have plenty of power for someone who doesn't intend to use it.

[jerritt]

I say go for it. A little about me, I to started riding in my mid 30's, the first bike I road was my friends BMW k100rs, the first bike I owned was a cb750, 10 years later I own a 5th gen VFR800, the first long trip I went on was from Toronto to Beamsville OH which is 439 miles, it was a great experience. The friend I went with said just follow me and do what I do and everything was great. My suggestion to you is find a friend with experience who will ride with you and will take it easy based on your experience and you will have a great time

[checksix]

You sound like you're mature enough to deal with the speed issue. What you likely won't anticipate is dealing with the mindset issue - keeping totally focussed on the road surface and "situational awareness", rather than watching the scenery flow by.

And, this is important, you WILL drop your bike within the first 500 miles. I don't mean a crash. I mean a zero speed tipover or 5mph turn around in a gas station. I'll bet 90% of us did that on our first bike. It's a lot cheaper to get it over with and do it on a $3000 "learner" bike than a $13000 brand spanking new one.

[lshark]

i couldn't disagree with Cogswell more....i started on dirt bikes at 10 years old (racing MX by 13) and dirt riding teaches you all of the physical skills and more for riding a street bike....the best thing to do (in addition to the MSF course) is to get a cheap used slightly beat up dirt bike and learn to control it....get to an off road area where you can grab a fist full of front brake and lock it up and see how the bike reacts (shift your weight to the pegs and over the back wheel) get the rear wheel spinning and learn how to control a full lock powerslide....learn how to do wheelies in the dirt so you know what to expect...you have an inch and about 20 lbs on me so i know that the 1200 will power wheelie even with a big guy in the saddle....at your stature, i don't think the weight of the vfr12 will be too much for you and i think that your mature attitude about starting off gently will benefit you ... a smaller bike isn't going to be sprung for your weight and could tend to wallow while cornering....trials type riding is another great skill builder (slow riding over obstacles where you lose points for putting a foot down) learn to master the machine so that it won't do anything that you don't intend it to....as far as street riding....expect every car to F you up and be prepared to avoid it....avoid blind spots ...make yourself visible to all drivers via lane placement ...look into car's rear view mirrors to see if you can see the driver....if you can't see them they can't see you...expect a car stuck in the slow lane to shift lanes....look out for parked cars with the brake lights on and the wheels cut...stay ahead of the pack on the open highway when possible...keep the playing field in front of you with an eye in the mirror often....like running back a kick off...you don't want to be tackled from behind ....little things can save your skin.....with a judicial throttle hand, the VFR1200 can purr like a kitten all day long....the VFR is a very stable, very friendly bike....until you become a serious peg dragger the weight will only be a factor at walking speed...imo....i hope you choose the VFR i love mine in all types of riding...good luck, be safe

[marriedman]

Was your first car a premium sports car or huge dually truck? That is comparison I would make.

I'm a big guy, same size as you. I started off on a Honda Reflex 250. I couldn't care less how stupid I looked. I learned how to ride! The only people that are going to think you look ridiculous are people you don't know. If one of your buddies laughs at you, it will only be in jest and you are a big boy. You can handle it.

My next bike was a Nighthawk 750. Fantastic bike to transition into more power and to learn shifting patterns, cruising speeds, planning your actions and escape routes. Predictable performance is essential. At this point in the game, you don't know what you don't know. Make sense?

Next came my '99 VFR. Great bike to learn how to ride more advanced. Sport style rides and so on.

Now I am on a 2007 VFR but looking for at 2010's myself. (The 6th gens just don't do it for me.) I feel that after 5 years of riding, I am finally experienced enough to manage the amount of power the 1200 has. I just rode on yesterday for the first time. You can get up to dangerous speed very easily. Hit a pothole/bump that makes you twist the throttle too hard, you can get flung to towards the bake of the bike. Your body will react by gripping tighter only exacerbating the problem. An experienced rider would have been able to override instinct and relax the throttle hand or been more likely able to avoid the bump in the entirely.

Not trying to rain on your parade or limit you in any way, just want you understand where many of us are coming from.

[TomP]

I side with the "start smaller" crowd. Because you won't have gobs of horsepower on tap at all time, you'll learn to be more efficient -- it takes more skill to ride a small bike quickly, and you'll have better feedback throughout the process.

One other thing to consider is that pretty much everyone who rides for long will own multiple motorcycles over time, so I wouldn't necessarily look at this as your one and only bike.

But best of luck whatever you end up deciding!

[V-FORE]

Hi SuperslabRider,

Although I have no opinion on what size to start out on, go big or go home....with what everyone else has said & your initial post & responses it looks as though you are an intelligent person who is not going to go do stupid things, that being said, when I twist the throttle on my vfr it tends to bring out the kid in me . I would recommend checking out the NCX700, I picked one up when they first came out 10/2012 for a commuter and have been very pleased, handles great, easy to ride, not as much power as my VFR but even two up is not bad :smile2: comes with DCT if you want and if you drop it no big deal, unlike most sport bikes where your going to be replacing plastics which can be expensive. Then when you want a bigger or sportier bike pick one up & have two Good Luck with whatever choice you make.

Gary

[Sweeper]

For your first trip, go to walmart and buy a dry sack and bungies. You can stuff a weeks worth of travel gear in and strap it to the seat. Take your time on luggage.

[The mailman]

I'm 51 and have been on bikes for about 30 years now. I learned on a borrowed brand new '83 VF750F. That is one of the first "super bikes" to hit the market. I survived the so called training but only due to sheer luck. The owner watched me ride back and forth from our cul-de-sac to the next for about 20 miuntes and said I was ready for the world! My first bike was an identical '84 model and while the Air Force required the Basic Rider Course to ride on base, it was the next 5 years of riding on the street that really brought motorcycle skills to a peak. I agree with you, especially at your stature, that a small bike is just not a great choice however I think a 1200 might be over stepping things a bit. I've been up and down the bike cc scale and have decided that the 800 - 1000 cc makes more sense than anything else for and EXPERIENCED rider. (unless your talking about heavy weight cruisers but that is a whole other story) Go find a decent used bike in the 750 - 800 range and just get use to being on the street. Every crack in the road, every low manhole cover, every section of crosswalk paint in a corner, every low speed parking lot maneuver will demand your attention. Weather, level of rest, a tiny bit of sand or a twig where you put your foot down, drivers that just watch their hood ornament, and gravity are all forces out to get you. Get use to battling those and then step up.

As far as buying/selling/buying in one season - That won't happen because you can't pick up on all of the skills needed in 5 months anyway. I know you've got dirt experience and that IS a bonus but the road just isn't the same as your buddy's backside property.

[kevinmacdonald]

I did the msf on a 250. Bought a used cb750 that had been dropped a couple of times so didn't cry when I dropped it due to my inexperience. It weighs over 500 has a 4.5 gas tank so doesn't look like a small bike. I learned a bunch not the least of which was that I love to ride. I got a 94 vfr that I'm loving now so much that as soon as the race is over I'm going for a ride in the wet. I'm in Omaha and for 750 cash you can have the cb see if riding is for you and then get your money out of it and move on to something that will make you sad when you drop it. Honda wins again. Got to get a ride its like a religion to me every Sunday. Best of luck and be careful.

[raoufhakam]

And, this is important, you WILL drop your bike within the first 500 miles. I don't mean a crash. I mean a zero speed tipover or 5mph turn around in a gas station. I'll bet 90% of us did that on our first bike. It's a lot cheaper to get it over with and do it on a $3000 "learner" bike than a $13000 brand spanking new one.

that about sums it all up, have nothing to do with how physically big you are or how mature, its a learning curve, its easier, cheaper and more forgiving to learn and make the same mistakes on a small/cheap bike thats worth probably just as much as a fixing the damage of a slow/stationary tipover of a new bike.

[Dedofnite]

Hey Super,

Regarding Spud's point on "development":

In the '70s and '80s Americans dominated world class GP racing largely because they possessed a wider range of skills for handling a motorcycle from competing on the AMA Grand National circuit which required excellence in 3 types of racing events. A few years later the Europeans started winning regularly after coming to California to "Kenny Roberts School" to practice riding skills on HONDA 100cc DIRTBIKES! Now who's dominating GP?

I love your enthusiasm and confidence. My recommendation would be:

Spend half the money on a used Honda, whatever size you think you can handle. Ride it home if you think you learned enough in the beginner class to not fall down.

Use the rest for another dirt bike and safety gear.

Go do an MSF Dirtbike School. (none in NE, have to go to Ohio, Colo, etc.)

Practice Practice Practice.

Find a girl who RIDES!

Ded

[lshark]

i normally wouldn't suggest a bike with this kind of performance as a first bike but being a big guy i think you could handle the size and weight and you don't sound like the type who would go nuts on it too soon....the 1000 mile ride home will get you accustomed to it fairly well...and it is a very forgiving bike as far as handling goes....super stable at any speed ....really not affected too much by road irregularities....the Bazzaz mods or the ECU reflash, although they add power, will make the power delivery much more predictable....the key is to respect the performance of this bike....and those great brakes can save your life if you learn who to use them properly

[Dedofnite]

I agree with Ishark. You are old enough to not be as ambitious, (read: STUPID), as we all were when we were 18.

Ded

[dynajohn]

Wow, that's a lot of change in a short time. I don't think the weight of the 1200 is as big an issue for a big guy like you as some others here. What is an issue is riding it for the first time on a multi day trip covering both in town and interstate or rural traffic and road conditions by yourself. I trust that you are serious when you say you can control your right wrist but there is no way you understand how much quicker that new 1200 is (particularly the manual trans model) than any car you have driven and how much more powerful the front brakes are. The consequences of a rookie mistake on a bike this powerful are much more serious than they would be in a car and if you are far from home by yourself that much more complicated. When asked by younger guys about buying a motorcycle I just say there are two kinds of riders, those who have fallen off and those who will eventually fall off. I speak from first hand experience.

My best advice is if you buy a VFR 1200 or any other bike out of town as a first time rider, rent a truck or trailer and bring it home that way. Don't attempt a multi day or multi hundred mile trip on your first street ride by yourself. When you get it home, if possible, ride it for short stints on rural low traffic roads at first and find a ride partner with experience. After you get some street experience and smarts then take that 1000 mile ride.