VFR clutch cover question(all gens) - how to add a window

[SEBSPEED]

So, I've been thinking about a mod, but need to figure something out before I know if it will work. I haven't looked in the manual yet, figured someone here might save me 5min of looking.

Does any part of the clutch put pressure against the center of the clutch cover, where it covers the clutch?

I have a couple spare clutch covers for different years of VFRs, and the mod I'm thinking of is:

Obviously, if some part of the clutch needs to push on the cover, this won't work. I don't think anything does, but, you never know. I'm pretty sure the pushrod that's activated by the clutch slave from the other side of the motor just pushes on the inside of the pressure plate, but looking at the inside of one of the covers it almost looks like part of it is there to keep the pressure plate from over extending.

What say you?

[Guest]

Wow, that would look cool! Very unique.

Having recently rebuilt my clutch, I think you should be good. Nothing makes contact with the cover except oil.

[mrmatt]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't touch the cover, looking at a 2nd gen cover I just bought I don't see any features that look like a mating surface. Plus, I think it would be a poor design to push directly against the cover which could cause the gasket to fail

[SEBSPEED]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't touch the cover, looking at a 2nd gen cover I just bought I don't see any features that look like a mating surface. Plus, I think it would be a poor design to push directly against the cover which could cause the gasket to fail

I'm getting excited...

[marid2apterbilt]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't touch the cover, looking at a 2nd gen cover I just bought I don't see any features that look like a mating surface. Plus, I think it would be a poor design to push directly against the cover which could cause the gasket to fail

I'm getting excited...

Are you thinking of offering a new product for the masses Seb ?

I would buy one..

[redmarque]

Nice idea Seb! Although offer no performance improvements clutch windows do look very cool.

Couple of questions:

How are you planning to seal the window. Big o-ring?

What type of glass or transparent material would you use?

Red

[SEBSPEED]

Are you thinking of offering a new product for the masses Seb ?

I would buy one..

No, just using up my spare parts instead of chucking or selling them. I have a rashed up VTEC cover, a VF750F cover(two, actually!), and a 4th gen cover.

Nice idea Seb! Although offer no performance improvements clutch windows do look very cool.

Couple of questions:

How are you planning to seal the window. Big o-ring?

What type of glass or transparent material would you use?

Red

Hi Red, most of the covers sold by the aftermarket use a big o ring, but I don't have a mill or cnc yet... so, I'm going to use some aircraft grade fuel tank sealant(leftover from work, very high grade stuff) on the mating surface of the window and the cover. Also thought to run a bead of it on the inside of the window, like bathroom caulk.

I have a bunch of scrap plexiglass, but lexan is more ideal because it's more resistant to scratching/breaking and staining from the oil.

I would need to use a couple different methods for the different covers, the VTEC and VF covers can be cut for a hole, then lapped on sandpaper to create a flat surface for sealing and fasteners. The 4th gen cover is a little more difficult, not much of an edge there for fasteners. I may have to mill the face off that one, and weld an aluminum ring on that one(which means it probably won't get done...).

[KevCarver]

I'd agree with your assessment. Seems the same as the RC51 clutch, and they have a smaller cover that only covers the clutch that is bolted to the larger piece (similar in size to the VFR part) by small bolts and sealed with an o ring. The whole right side cover includes the water pump. So the smaller clutch cover prevents draining the cooling system to change clutch plates. Plus the factory racers had dry clutches!

[Bent]

Seb, in my manual it says "just do it, tach it up to redline in all gears, then you'll know if if works". Honest, that's what my service manual says about "all mods"..... :goofy:

Nice mod. Black oil would be a very color coordinating feature.... :blink:

[redmarque]

I think it will work fine. Could you use your waterjet at work to cut the rings? something like this? outside one slightly smaller internal diameter to hold in the plexiglass. Epoxy to fill the edge to the case.

[fricksdad]

Are you thinking of offering a new product for the masses Seb ?

I would buy one..

No, just using up my spare parts instead of chucking or selling them. I have a rashed up VTEC cover, a VF750F cover(two, actually!), and a 4th gen cover.

Nice idea Seb! Although offer no performance improvements clutch windows do look very cool.

Couple of questions:

How are you planning to seal the window. Big o-ring?

What type of glass or transparent material would you use?

Red

Hi Red, most of the covers sold by the aftermarket use a big o ring, but I don't have a mill or cnc yet... so, I'm going to use some aircraft grade fuel tank sealant(leftover from work, very high grade stuff) on the mating surface of the window and the cover. Also thought to run a bead of it on the inside of the window, like bathroom caulk.

I have a bunch of scrap plexiglass, but lexan is more ideal because it's more resistant to scratching/breaking and staining from the oil.

I would need to use a couple different methods for the different covers, the VTEC and VF covers can be cut for a hole, then lapped on sandpaper to create a flat surface for sealing and fasteners. The 4th gen cover is a little more difficult, not much of an edge there for fasteners. I may have to mill the face off that one, and weld an aluminum ring on that one(which means it probably won't get done...).

[fricksdad]

Are you thinking of offering a new product for the masses Seb ?

I would buy one..

No, just using up my spare parts instead of chucking or selling them. I have a rashed up VTEC cover, a VF750F cover(two, actually!), and a 4th gen cover.

Nice idea Seb! Although offer no performance improvements clutch windows do look very cool.

Couple of questions:

How are you planning to seal the window. Big o-ring?

What type of glass or transparent material would you use?

Red

Hi Red, most of the covers sold by the aftermarket use a big o ring, but I don't have a mill or cnc yet... so, I'm going to use some aircraft grade fuel tank sealant(leftover from work, very high grade stuff) on the mating surface of the window and the cover. Also thought to run a bead of it on the inside of the window, like bathroom caulk.

I have a bunch of scrap plexiglass, but lexan is more ideal because it's more resistant to scratching/breaking and staining from the oil.

I would need to use a couple different methods for the different covers, the VTEC and VF covers can be cut for a hole, then lapped on sandpaper to create a flat surface for sealing and fasteners. The 4th gen cover is a little more difficult, not much of an edge there for fasteners. I may have to mill the face off that one, and weld an aluminum ring on that one(which means it probably won't get done...).

Polycarbonate plastics, like Lexan, might not be the best choice for your application.

Petroleum products tend to degrade them,quickly with some petroleum solvents,and slowly with oils and greases.

Check the warning label on your helmet face shield which are usually made of polycarbonate plastic.

[SEBSPEED]

I think it will work fine. Could you use your waterjet at work to cut the rings? something like this? outside one slightly smaller internal diameter to hold in the plexiglass. Epoxy to fill the edge to the case.

Not sure yet if I'll be able to get anything cut at work, it's hard nowadays. I've had to make other connections for my last few parts... I am planning to use one ring. Would be nicer to have the ring machined, to capture the plastic on the OD, but I'm not going to spend the money for that.

Just one ring, same OD as the plastic, bolted and sealed to the case, and painted on the OD edges; that's my plan.

[SEBSPEED]

Here's what the inside of the VTEC cover looks like:

It would be really cool to add some color to the pressure plate, that would make it really pop.

Anyone know if I can safely powdercoat the pressure plate? Will the powdercoat deteriorate inside the motor from exposure to heat and oil?

[Monk]

Must say SEB, That well look cool.......

[TexOz]

Are you thinking of offering a new product for the masses Seb ?

I would buy one..

No ....

Aww c'mon SEB we want one too ... please ... PLEASE!

[SEBSPEED]

Aww c'mon SEB we want one too ... please ... PLEASE!

Don't you want to wait and see if I screw it up first? :angry:

[TexOz]

Aww c'mon SEB we want one too ... please ... PLEASE!

Don't you want to wait and see if I screw it up first? :blink:

What could possibly go wrong? :angry:

[SEBSPEED]

Don't you want to wait and see if I screw it up first? :ph34r:

What could possibly go wrong? :wheel:

So far, nothing...

Take one rashed up VTEC clutch cover:

Say a prayer and bless it(make it holey!)

Punch the center out:

Sand remaining ribs off:

Smooth the bore:

Hmm, what could go wrong?

Well, for one, I'm trying to keep this simple, and there simply isn't much material left to put screws into! The proper way to do this, would be to make that bore a bit bigger(take it all the way to that circular rib inside), then weld a nice thick ring in there. Not so simple since I don't have that tig welder that I want/need yet...

But, I do have a bag of stainless 4-40 screws... hmm... they're tiny, but if I use a LOT of them, this could work. I had to zoom WAY in for this shot...

Better perspective:

Extra bling factor w/ all those shiny screws too! :wheel: :goofy:

More tomorrow... maybe... depends on if I have to shovel the driveway again or not... :wheel:

[Veefer800Canuck]

Well, what else are you going to do with a rashed cover?

At least you're not sacrificing a good one!

Awaiting the results........

[shrek]

Seb, send a PM to Rifleman at TLZone.net (here is the link to his forum there http://www.tlzone.net/forums/double-z-racing/ ), He's the guy that has been modifying stock TL clutch covers like that for years. He's good people and can probably point you in the right direction as to what material to use for the windows and how best to seal them so they don't leak. The first photo you posted is one of his covers. IIRC, Rifleman was the second guy to do this for the TL1000, the first guy was in Germany and his covers leaked. Rifleman came up with new rings that sealed without leaking andwhile he was at it sold retrofit parts to fix all of the leaking rings.

The second is by a guy called Vandriver at TLPlanet.com. That one is a freshly machined part; the pressure plate is his too. Vandriver is one helluva machinist and he's been kind enough to make lots of bitchen parts over the years including:

Sprocket covers

http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79722

Pressure plates

http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79691

Brake and clutch reservoirs

http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79844

and of course the clutch covers, now with sliders integrated into the window to keep the cover pretty for those track days.

http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79823

You could say that I'm a big fan of his work

[SEBSPEED]

Seb, send a PM to Rifleman at TLZone.net (here is the link to his forum there http://www.tlzone.net/forums/double-z-racing/ ), He's the guy that has been modifying stock TL clutch covers like that for years. He's good people and can probably point you in the right direction as to what material to use for the windows and how best to seal them so they don't leak. The first photo you posted is one of his covers. IIRC, Rifleman was the second guy to do this for the TL1000, the first guy was in Germany and his covers leaked. Rifleman came up with new rings that sealed without leaking andwhile he was at it sold retrofit parts to fix all of the leaking rings.

The second is by a guy called Vandriver at TLPlanet.com. That one is a freshly machined part; the pressure plate is his too. Vandriver is one helluva machinist and he's been kind enough to make lots of bitchen parts over the years including:

Thanks bud. I'm pretty confident that I can make this seal properly. It won't be as easy to replace if something goes wrong, but that's the compromise in doing this without laying out any money to someone else for parts or services. I'm sure both of those guys do great work, I am hoping to be "one of those guys" within the next couple years. I'm striving to pay off all my debt, which is down to my truck and mortgage payments. Once the truck is paid off I will be expanding my garage and bringing in new equipment, so I can finally make parts on my time, when I need or want them. I've done a decent job with design on my own as well, although who can really go wrong nowadays with the internet at your side.

I think I've seen all the parts you linked, but FYI, you have to be a member to view the posts you linked.

Doesn't look like I need to shovel, so I'll see about doing some more on this thing in a bit.

[shrek]

I'm looking forward to your results. If you are successful, I've gor a 3d gen slightly scuffed clutch cover for you to tinker with.

[SEBSPEED]

I'm looking forward to your results. If you are successful, I've gor a 3d gen slightly scuffed clutch cover for you to tinker with.

Forgot to mention, I love your TL!

[SEBSPEED]

K, here's all the progress I can make until the lexan gets here. I'm opting against using my free plexiglass, because I'm told the lexan lasts longer - it's also what the "pro's" use that make and sell these.

First, we need a smooth flat surface for the lexan to seal on(with sealant). Bust out the digital calipers, drop a scribe line, and start sanding with the air grinder & 80 grit pad.

Then whip out the granite surface plate and a sheet of 220 grit wet/dry paper; tape to plate.

Commence lapping until you get a uniform smooth surface(lapping = making figure 8's with the piece). Add clean water as needed to keep the paper from clogging.

Next we lay out the hole pattern, again using the calipers here to make the scribe line(twice... measure twice, drill once!!). I used one of my CAD programs to create an array of holes every 11.25º, for a total of 32 fastener locations. Once I had the circle scribed, I picked a start point, and then using a center-to-center dimension from my CAD file I mark out the pattern, and punch marked the holes.

You can see the results of the lapping better here.

Then drill on the drill press...

BEFORE threading the holes, create a template for the hole pattern which will later be transferred to the lexan. For this I used some of my plexiglass. Drill one hole, pin it with second drill bit, then clamp in place to keep it from moving while drilling the other holes.

Then run a tap through all the holes and add fasteners to see how it will look. **Note to TexOz... this is where things went a little wonky... these are tiny little holes, material is a bit thin, and with my large tap handle some of the holes were threaded crooked. So there you have it, I screwed it up! Kinda, it's still useable. The sealant will do a good job of making up for the crooked screws, as will the number of screws.

[enzed_viffer]

Good work, Seb! :goofy:

Anticipating the next exciting episode....