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New 5th/6th/8th gen performance header now in production in USA


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13 minutes ago, jim v said:

Since this thread has become the all-things-custom-headers-thread I'm posting here.......

 

I was in on the first batch of custom headers and after install it was immediately clear that the bike would benefit from a dyno tune. Surge at small, constant throttle openings, a general lack of crisp response to inputs, etc. This wasn't a surprise, I was actually pleased - the motor needing more fuel because its moving more air is a good thing

 

 

 

 

Who did the tuning for you?  Rob's Dyno??  I'd like to have a chat and figure out a game plan for my 5th Gen.

 

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On 10/26/2020 at 2:33 PM, GreginDenver said:

Yes this is still happening.  It appears that we (those of us already in with deposits on the current group-purchase) have stalled out below the number of header systems required for an order to go forward to production.  So if you come in and add yourself to those who've placed deposits we'll be closer to "go!".

Ok, let me dig through this thread and see who I need to contact for a deposit.  Unless that person wants to contact me first 🙃

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5 minutes ago, ShipFixer said:

Ok, let me dig through this thread and see who I need to contact for a deposit.  Unless that person wants to contact me first 🙃

Send a note to @sfdownhill and @Duc2V4.  they can get you sorted.

 

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6 hours ago, VFR Newbie said:

 

 

Who did the tuning for you?  Rob's Dyno??  I'd like to have a chat and figure out a game plan for my 5th Gen.

 

 

Seacoast Cycle in Derry. Charles is the dyno-technician, very professional.

 

And why haven't we seen some pics of the RVF?! 🙂

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7 hours ago, jim v said:

 

  1. My header has 3 O2 ports, one for each pair of cylinders and one downstream of the merge. Unfortunately, the header pairs the left & right cylinders (iow a front and rear). The technician highly preferred front-front & rear-rear cylinders for tuning purposes. As he said, the temp difference between front and rear cylinders is large enough to make a difference. We ended up using the single O2 port past the merge to tune.


These are 180° engines, which is why the cylinders are paired as they are. Pairing them, both fronts and both rears as a 360° engine is done, will cause running issues and kill power on an 800. Black Widow have their header paired that way. I tried one and it was everything I could do to get my bike started. Once running, it acted like is was flooding, up to ~4K rpm. That experience is what got me to buy this header. 

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10 hours ago, ducnut said:


These are 180° engines, which is why the cylinders are paired as they are. Pairing them, both fronts and both rears as a 360° engine is done, will cause running issues and kill power on an 800. Black Widow have their header paired that way. I tried one and it was everything I could do to get my bike started. Once running, it acted like is was flooding, up to ~4K rpm. That experience is what got me to buy this header. 

 

Thanks ducnut - I knew there was a good reason, just couldn't remember it

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13 hours ago, ducnut said:


These are 180° engines, which is why the cylinders are paired as they are. Pairing them, both fronts and both rears as a 360° engine is done, will cause running issues and kill power on an 800. Black Widow have their header paired that way. I tried one and it was everything I could do to get my bike started. Once running, it acted like is was flooding, up to ~4K rpm. That experience is what got me to buy this header. 

 

Are the 8th gen different than the 5th or 6th gen? Because, the 8th gen has the front headers paired together and the rear paired together... 🤔

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11 minutes ago, dudutzu said:

 

Are the 8th gen different than the 5th or 6th gen? Because, the 8th gen has the front headers paired together and the rear paired together... 🤔

 

I don't know much about 8th gens but that pairing can work if the header tube length is changed so the exhaust pulses arrive at the merge points at the proper time. I think

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Screen Shot 2020-10-30 at 9.10.34 PM.png

 

You can also see from the drawing that in both cases (both the 180 degree crankshaft engine and the 360 degree crankshaft engine) the primary headers are on cylinders that provide the widest possible spacing of exhaust pulses into both the primary "Y"s and into the final merge (the "collector"). 

 

This is how you arrange things for good gas flow through an exhaust system.

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On 10/29/2020 at 1:07 PM, jim v said:

Since this thread has become the all-things-custom-headers-thread I'm posting here.......

 

I was in on the first batch of custom headers and after install it was immediately clear that the bike would benefit from a dyno tune. Surge at small, constant throttle openings, a general lack of crisp response to inputs, etc. This wasn't a surprise, I was actually pleased - the motor needing more fuel because its moving more air is a good thing

 

Here's my experience -

  1. I wanted to try the Rapid Bike system based on my web research but ultimately went with a Power Commander. Not my decision really, any reputable shop within a reasonable distance was far more experienced with the PC. One was willing to try the RB but my bike would have been patient #1.
  2. My header has 3 O2 ports, one for each pair of cylinders and one downstream of the merge. Unfortunately, the header pairs the left & right cylinders (iow a front and rear). The technician highly preferred front-front & rear-rear cylinders for tuning purposes. As he said, the temp difference between front and rear cylinders is large enough to make a difference. We ended up using the single O2 port past the merge to tune
  3. We didn't go for ultimate power but rather smooth throttle response. Even so everyone wants to see the numbers so Max HP = 106.0 Max T = 55.2. Dynoplot down below
  4. Mods are WiLD headers, flow balanced injectors, Pipercross air filter, Micron exhaust cans
  5. Results - throttle response is much, much better now. Crisp, linear, no surging, no stumbling - puts a smile on my face each time I open it up. Sadly riding season is almost over around here 😞

 

Dyno Plot VFR800.pdf 1.13 MB · 9 downloads

 

I bought a RB this summer and installed it with the stock dual O2 sensors on my 6th gen.  I would have added the My Tuning Bike and the single wide band sensor,  but Yaman was out of stock on the MTB"s.  Instalation is plug and play, very easy, the same as a PC.  Anyway,  unlike PC, RB tunes itself to a target AFR on the fly.  It's been flawless - exceeded my expectations. It runs flawlessly at any RPM or load, and I seem to have picked up a few MPG's over the PC tune I had. RB really has its tune dialed in,  at least for Gen 6's.  It's more expensive than a PC V but way more capable - I've been very pleased.

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3 hours ago, GreginDenver said:

Screen Shot 2020-10-30 at 9.10.34 PM.png

 

You can also see from the drawing that in both cases (both the 180 degree crankshaft engine and the 360 degree crankshaft engine) the primary headers are on cylinders that provide the widest possible spacing of exhaust pulses into both the primary "Y"s and into the final merge (the "collector"). 

 

This is how you arrange things for good gas flow through an exhaust system.

Hi Greg.

On my 8gen the exhausts are arranged with cylinders 1 and 3 joining in a Y,  with 2 and 4 joining in a Y and both Y's join at the cat.

Therefore 1 and 3 are at 180deg and 2 and 4 are at 180deg = Balanced pulses.

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On 10/29/2020 at 1:07 PM, jim v said:

Since this thread has become the all-things-custom-headers-thread I'm posting here.......

 

Thanks for the detailed report Jim - glad to hear you've been infected with the TRG virus [Throttle-Response-Grin]. It's something of a relief now that more guys are getting the headers set up correctly and reporting back - for a while Duc2V4, RVFR, SamuelX, and I were feeling a bit like we were hollering to the moon.

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On 10/30/2020 at 9:50 AM, dudutzu said:

Are the 8th gen different than the 5th or 6th gen? Because, the 8th gen has the front headers paired together and the rear paired together... 🤔

 

dudutzu - the 8 gen headers pair the same cylinders as the 5 and 6 gen headers. The only difference is that on the 8 gen, the front two primary tubes are shaped differently to fit behind the front-mounted radiator. 5 and 6 gen have side-mounted radiators. If you've got an 8 gen, check out the 'Full Exhaust System' thread in the 8 gen forum. It is directed at the 8 gen headers and summarizes this header thread in a couple pages, including dyno charts [So you don't have to read through the 41 pages of data that's logged here].

 

 

18 hours ago, GreginDenver said:

This is how you arrange things for good gas flow through an exhaust system.

 

A better summary statement was never made. Thanks for the detailed article Greg - you rock, always have.

 

 

17 hours ago, Grum said:

Therefore 1 and 3 are at 180deg and 2 and 4 are at 180deg = Balanced pulses.

 

Right on!

 

 

 

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On 10/30/2020 at 4:42 PM, ducnut said:


These are 180° engines, which is why the cylinders are paired as they are. Pairing them, both fronts and both rears as a 360° engine is done, will cause running issues and kill power on an 800. Black Widow have their header paired that way. I tried one and it was everything I could do to get my bike started. Once running, it acted like is was flooding, up to ~4K rpm. That experience is what got me to buy this header. 

Sorry but that is not correct.

I ran a full RC45 Shark system on my Gen5 engine and it was fine. Not as good as the  new headers but it did not cause running issues and killed power.

I dynoed my 825cc at 135rwhp with the Shark system. 

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On 10/31/2020 at 4:55 PM, sfdownhill said:

 

dudutzu - the 8 gen headers pair the same cylinders as the 5 and 6 gen headers. The only difference is that on the 8 gen, the front two primary tubes are shaped differently to fit behind the front-mounted radiator. 5 and 6 gen have side-mounted radiators. If you've got an 8 gen, check out the 'Full Exhaust System' thread in the 8 gen forum. It is directed at the 8 gen headers and summarizes this header thread in a couple pages, including dyno charts [So you don't have to read through the 41 pages of data that's logged here].

 

 I wasn't talking about your exhaust, I was referring to the factory exhaust.

Factory exhaust on gen 5 and 6 combines cyliders 1+2 and 3+4. On gen 8 it combines 1+3 and 2+4.

 

I'm just trying to get clarification if running the 1+3 and 2+4 would pose a [long term] problem.

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3 hours ago, dudutzu said:

 I wasn't talking about your exhaust, I was referring to the factory exhaust.

Factory exhaust on gen 5 and 6 combines cyliders 1+2 and 3+4. On gen 8 it combines 1+3 and 2+4.

 

I'm just trying to get clarification if running the 1+3 and 2+4 would pose a [long term] problem.

The factory exhaust merge configuration on the 8th gen was done for manufacturing cost savings not performance. This is why the 8th gen sees the greatest benefit from the WiLD Headers. Running the WiLD Headers on an 8th gen shouldn’t cause any long term problems except difficulty wiping the sh!t eating grin off your face!

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