The Beginning Of The End (In The Uk)

[BiKenG]

The choke cable on my recently acquired '99 VFR is seized, so I attempted to order a new one from my Honda dealer, only to be told that Honda no longer have stock and won't be making any more. So that's it for the choke cable and no doubt many other items.

Ok, only a choke cable. Can be obtained elsewhere and in any case will be eliminated from my bike in the future, but it is disappointing that Honda is already discontinuing parts for what has been such a popular model.

Back in the 70s, Honda would supply ANY part for ANY bike they had ever made. If not in local stock, then from Japan and if no stock there, it would be manufactured. In which case it would take some time, but it WOULD be supplied. Now, it's a 10 year rule. If parts are not shifting, after that time they're discontinued. Since bikes are so reliable and easily usable for far more than 10 years, I think this is unacceptable, but I doubt they'll change their policies just because of what I think.

[VIFFR]

I've got a 2005 Holden ute. These are an iconic Australian vehicle andare very popular. In 2014 the brake bias controller (senses the amount if weight in the tray via a spring and adjusts the brake bias) started to leak. Holden stopped manufacturing them a few years previous and there were no after market suppliers. Think about that for a minute. There are no parts available for my 10 year old vehicle, which would have been 7 years old at the time they stopped making that part and my particular model was produced for another couple of years after that.

I had to chase one down from a wrecking yard and it cost a lot of money. I joked to the guy that i should buy a couple and keep them for an investment. He laughed and told me he is already doing that.

[Knight]

First off and most importantly, a google of the part resulted in what are probably some dealers who list it as available, like:

http://honda.mymcparts.com/p/Honda__/CABLE--CHOKE/55017128/17950-MBG-000.html?partner=googlebase_adwords&kwd=&origin=pla

I am a novice and before I bought my '99 I talked to a friend who has a lot of knowledge of cars and bikes. He isn't a biker today though and his knowledge of them is limited to the 70s-80s era. I stressed my concern about finding parts if I purchased a used Honda and he said the same thing, that you can get any part for any bike. I then started reading these blogs and saw people struggling to find parts for 90's bikes. So after reading your post I can see that things have changed.

Given the popularity of these bikes, how do we start a campaing towards Honda, promoting the manufacturing of all VFR series bike parts?

[BiKenG]

I see it a problem that is bigger than Honda. It is now almost universal that products are made to NOT be fixed. I know, cars and bikes can be, but it's becoming more and more difficult as the manufacturers want to stock and supply fewer numbers of parts. Take Honda and their Throttle Bodies. We all know they comprise a LOT of parts, but Honda just sells the entire assembly - that's £2,500 for the VF1200 thank you very much. This is insane. NO-ONE will buy parts at these prices - except the insurance companies. Everyone else has to scrabble around for used parts. Vehicles are not designed to be fixed by individuals.

I suspect part of this is down to the same reason why they want to rid themselves of old parts ASAP. My example of back in the 70s, the number of models and hence total of parts they had to consider was very much smaller than if they were to make the same offer now. And it just keeps getting worse as they continually replace models with another, not necessarily better, but different version, so more parts that need to be stocked. No wonder they want to reduce this any way they can - except the obvious of course, STOP MAKING SO MANY NEW MODELS.

Again, back in the 70s, every new bike was a serious step ahead of what went before. But there was a lot of headroom then, plenty of room to improve. Now, bikes have reached a pinnacle of what can be achieved. Technological advances be damned, you CANNOT make a road bike any faster than is already available - until they can make light bend around corners (which of course they will never be able to do). So why keep making new, different models and exacerbating the parts problem. Because (they believe) the buying public want change. So the solution is in our hands. Stop demanding this incessant cycle of change for change's sake, or let the manufacturers know that really it is not what we want.

Otherwise, the way things are going they'll be discontinuing spares for models over 5 years old.

Meanwhile, I'm going to see what a bit of lubrication can do to a stiff cable (no laughing at the back:-).

[Skids]

Can't see one listed on David Silver Spares either.

[Knight]

I see it a problem that is bigger than Honda. It is now almost universal that products are made to NOT be fixed.

This is a serious waste of resources. Think off the Cubans who have been repairing their 1950's vehicles since new, out of necessity. Now think of the free world where consumer goods are perpetually thrown in a landfill. I am not an environmentalist, just a common sense person, and I have come to develop a major problem with this.

Take Honda and their Throttle Bodies. We all know they comprise a LOT of parts, but Honda just sells the entire assembly - that's £2,500 for the VF1200 thank you very much. This is insane. NO-ONE will buy parts at these prices - except the insurance companies. Everyone else has to scrabble around for used parts. Vehicles are not designed to be fixed by individuals.

And the insurance company is us. It is the insurance customer that pays for it all. People become detached from their money via premiums, (just like with taxes) and lose touch that it is their capital lost, and they only see the shiny new replacement.

until they can make light bend around corners (which of course they will never be able to do).

You lost me here. You could temporarily fill the corner with a gas of a certain engineered refractive index, shine the light, and pass it right around the corner. Or knowing that light behaves as a particle as well, we may be able to carry the refractive material on the light beam, perhaps turning its properties on and off via adjusting the energy input.

So why keep making new, different models and exacerbating the parts problem. Because (they believe) the buying public want change. So the solution is in our hands. Stop demanding this incessant cycle of change for change's sake, or let the manufacturers know that really it is not what we want.

People lust for new things as well, particularly with cars and motorcycles. It is difficult to tell where the influence of new and the influence of change intersect.

[wera803]

First let me say that I do not disagree with wanting parts for our older bikes. The flip side is I work for a manufacturing company (nothing to do with bikes) and we run into issues like this too. The electronic boards made for units 15 years ago can't be bought anymore. Technology has changed and we change suppliers on occasion. The supplier that made the boards 15 years ago for us are out of business, or they can't get 1 or 2 components on the board anymore. New suppliers don't want to make 1 or 2 boards a year of something they never made in the first place, and the cost would be 10 times what it was 15 years ago. Plus they would have to come up with some sort of way to qualify the parts they made along with warranty them.

I know the example is a little different than a cable, but it happens with just about every component on our unit over time. Suppliers aren't willing to store fixtures, dies, etc. for everything they have ever made (if they stay in business to begin with).

Wonder if a company like Motion Pro could make you a cable? I know they do a lot of custom length throttle cables.

[L8Apex]

I believe there some kind of federal law that now requires 10 years of parts availability for vehicles.

I think that has forced their hand in how and what they maintain in parts inventory, and good luck after that when they run out.

This seems to be the norm for most any manufacture anymore though.

But of course If there's enough demand, someone else will reproduce it eventually.

[BiKenG]

I hear what you're saying wera803, but supply of a cable is not the issue. I can source one from a third party or could make one myself if I had to. My criticism is of the general trends that create such situations that for a perfectly usable bike (and of which there are many thousands out there), some wearing parts are no longer available from the manufacturer, who let's be honest could have more made at the drop of a hat. This is not a supply problem.

I believe there some kind of federal law that now requires 10 years of parts availability for vehicles.

I think that has forced their hand in how and what they maintain in parts inventory, and good luck after that when they run out.

This seems to be the norm for most any manufacture anymore though.

But of course If there's enough demand, someone else will reproduce it eventually.

I believe that is the case (in the US anyway), but to get around this the manufacturer can just stock large assemblies that no-one can afford to buy and then drop them after 10 years when they don't shift.

I don't lie awake at night worrying about this sort of thing, but I do notice changes that have taken place over the course of my obsession with motorcycles and an inability to buy a cable I need for a Honda, from Honda, just brings it to the surface.

[The mailman]

I see it a problem that is bigger than Honda.

Bigger indeed. We are a society of disposable products. I can't tell you how many things (not just on motorcycles) I've had break and either the part isn't available or the part is MORE than a whole new product.

[superfunkomatic]

I've had good luck with a company that finds and has many old parts going back to the 70s and 80s on Honda bikes.

http://www.cmsnl.com/

It's called 'forced/planned obsolescence' - 10 years is now a reasonable time to own a vehicle before things start breaking down, then, you buy a new one and there is a continuous cycle of customers for multinational corporations. Sad, but true.

[Dutchy]

CMSNL do not stock the choke cable for a 99

I checked :-)

[wera803]

I hear what you're saying wera803, but supply of a cable is not the issue. I can source one from a third party or could make one myself if I had to. My criticism is of the general trends that create such situations that for a perfectly usable bike (and of which there are many thousands out there), some wearing parts are no longer available from the manufacturer, who let's be honest could have more made at the drop of a hat. This is not a supply problem.

I understand. They don't offer the left switch assembly anymore either and there are several people with troublesome turn signal switches (me included).

[Switchblade]

The 10 year rule does not apply anymore.

[Steve]

eBay is good for cables. I've had a new A&B Throttle cable and new choke from there.

[VFRBert]

Cable available at wemoto.com

[Cogswell]

I remember once seeing a perfectly nice 5th gen on ebay that was broken for parts. The seller had a video of it prior to dis-assembly - it wasn't perfect, but was nice. I suspect all this contributes to that phenomenon. It probably brought more as parts than it could have been sold for as a rideable bike. :sad2:

[JZH]

Venhill in the UK also makes custom cables...

Ciao,

[ridered]

I've never had trouble getting parts, but then again I've never had trouble with my bike at all. It is for sale in the classifieds and the chock cable is in perfect working order. For 2400 you can have a parts bike that runs perfect.

Imagine owning one of the Chinese bikes. Good luck. Makes we wAnt to start a bike wrecking yard.

Try partzilla?

I think honda does a good job supplying parts. I also work for an oem and we can't stock parts for ancient products. It costs too much, and sillier a go out of business. At some point it is time to upgrade, or fashion your own parts. There are complaints about things being disposable, but people also don't know how to fix things (generally speaking). I'm impressed how many parts are a available for an 18 year old motorcycle. And how little trouble I have had. Runs perfect, doesn't leak any fluids and still looks decent.

[Mohawk]

So the up shot to this is that manufacturers are being disingenuous. Almost everything today is designed in CAD, parts can be turned out ANYWHERE in the world from those computer files, with the exception of the major castings. But hey won't release their IP (intellectual property) to the world. Likewise many parts are inter changeable between bikes & even manufacturers, but they don't provide a cross reference. They often list a part number as NLA, when a very similar part that would fit with no modification is available, as in a cable that's 50mm to long etc.

Luckily there are lots of companies out their willing to make pattern parts or to produce one off's. For KenBG I'd suggest a Venhill universal cable kit & make your own replacement. I just did that for my 250 as I needed a longer clutch cable !

[BiKenG]

Honda's part number system is logical and very comprehensive, but it is not their business to try and figure out which of their millions of parts are interchangeable with any others. Despite my annoyance over discontinuing parts too early, I do not expect such cross-referencing of Honda or any other manufacturer.

Despite what many believe, Honda do NOT knowingly duplicate parts. If a part from one model is also used elsewhere, it keeps its original part number. They do NOT make up a new number just for that other model. If the part number is different, the part IS different. However, that difference might be total, or might be a different finish, or just a different manufacturer, depending on what section of the number is different. The structured numbering system was well thought out and better designed than any other part numbering system I've ever come across. But it was not designed to illustrate any interchangeability of parts and I don't have a problem with that. Having said that, its clever design can be used to make a fair guess as to any possible compatibility.

What I would like to see is better information in the description of the part, so e.g. cables would state their length etc. In that way, we could easily figure out that if the fittings were the same, what cables might be used on other vehicles, even if there was some slight variation in length.

But please, can I re-iterate here, I am not in need of any sources for cables. This particular cable is readily available in the UK from e.g. Wemoto and I already have a trade account with Venhill whose products I've been using to make custom cables and hydraulic lines for years. So please, suggestions for sourcing a cable are not what this is about. I was merely raising the issue that basically consumable items for a still common and popular bike are being discontinued and that is not good news.

As it happens, with a bit of WD40 and some light oil, it seems the existing cable will be perfectly usable until such time as I rip it all apart for the naked project and eliminate the 'choke' cable altogether.

[Epyon007]

Honda's part number system is logical and very comprehensive, but it is not their business to try and figure out which of their millions of parts are interchangeable with any others. Despite my annoyance over discontinuing parts too early, I do not expect such cross-referencing of Honda or any other manufacturer.

Despite what many believe, Honda do NOT knowingly duplicate parts. If a part from one model is also used elsewhere, it keeps its original part number. They do NOT make up a new number just for that other model. If the part number is different, the part IS different. However, that difference might be total, or might be a different finish, or just a different manufacturer, depending on what section of the number is different. The structured numbering system was well thought out and better designed than any other part numbering system I've ever come across. But it was not designed to illustrate any interchangeability of parts and I don't have a problem with that. Having said that, its clever design can be used to make a fair guess as to any possible compatibility.

What I would like to see is better information in the description of the part, so e.g. cables would state their length etc. In that way, we could easily figure out that if the fittings were the same, what cables might be used on other vehicles, even if there was some slight variation in length.

With 10 years in the VW parts business I agree with this completely. Though I don't know what Honda's part numbering system is, ours is insanely simple and logical!!!