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bdouvill

Trying To Revive A 1993 Vfr 750, Incomplete... And Flooded!

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That project looks like what I started with. Someone posted my story already. I ended up getting a new to me motor instead of rebuilding the original. I had a lot of water in my motor and the valves were stuck open, I wasn't going to be able to fix them. I have full faith in this running again. Keep up the good work! I can't wait to see more progress. As for the fairings, it took me 8 years to find all the right ones on eBay. There are companies out there that sell complete kits for our bikes, but I'm not sure of the quality. Finding originals are harder and harder to find.

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WD40, fogging oil, or other aerosol oil should also be used, it will coat the walls better than pouring a liquid in.

I think in your situation, I might use ATF and a spray, instead of oil.

All in all, if I disengage the chain from the sprocket, I'm only 4 screws away from removing the motor from the frame and that will be then easier to remove the rear wheel and swingarm to check for bearing states. Then it will be easy to remove the rest (front wheel and fork). But I still did not decide if I just clean the inside of the chambers with your method or if I dismantle the whole motor, at least to get an idea of the gearbox state. I am not really thrilled by the idea of dismantling both heads and needing to buy new gaskets.

Btw, what does ATF stands for?

That project looks like what I started with. Someone posted my story already. I ended up getting a new to me motor instead of rebuilding the original. I had a lot of water in my motor and the valves were stuck open, I wasn't going to be able to fix them. I have full faith in this running again. Keep up the good work! I can't wait to see more progress. As for the fairings, it took me 8 years to find all the right ones on eBay. There are companies out there that sell complete kits for our bikes, but I'm not sure of the quality. Finding originals are harder and harder to find.

Thanks for the support ;-)

My wish is to be able to ride it some day, probably not before next summer, and probably without front fairings in the first place (there's enough technical stuff to check/solve to keep me busy for a moment). I'll keep you posted.

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Automatic Transmission Fluid.

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Automatic Transmission Fluid.

Is that different from manual gearbox oil? I have some in my garage.

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Automatic Transmission Fluid.

Is that different from manual gearbox oil? I have some in my garage.

Yes. Different. I don't pretend to be the expert on this, but from what I understand is, manual transmission uses Oil, while Automatic uses Fluid, which is Oil + other stuff. See, I toldya I was no expert :wacko:

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Spent some time in the garage this week-end but rather on the Bandit (scratched my head with LED turn signal, LED relay and unexpected current outage when riding, quite scary).

But I decided I should remove the VFR engine from the frame for better inspection (on my terrasse, my wife is super happy). Also, it will ease swingarm removal for bearings inspection. So I understood I need a special socket to remove the nuts for the engine and the swingarm (and apparently, it's 2 sockets in fact).

With a little help from Google, I found this:

For the engine nut:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-VFR750-Engine-Mounting-Nut-Socket-/121187979855?hash=item1c375dd24f:m:mAqxMB8OXoenfJ3berCn7Cg

and for the Swingarm:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-VF-700-VFR-750-Swing-Arm-Socket-Tool-swinging-arm-swingarm-/121050837790?hash=item1c2f31331e:m:mT2DuMWhkCbh7vgNBHheM-g

Is it correct? I must say that in the same ebay shop, I also found this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-VFR750F-Engine-Frame-Socket-Set-/121204575803?hash=item1c385b0e3b:g:qDAAAMXQrC9ScD3C

and to be honest, I can not figure the difference between this "set" and the engine Mounting Nut Socket alone.

I emailed the seller but got no answer yet. Any idea?

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Got the answer from the seller:

You are correct you do need the the 2 tools one for the engine and one for the swinging arm.
I do offer 2 engine sockets, the only difference is the set contains the small socket to set the adjusting screw.

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If you have a grinder and some cutting discs, you can make your own tools from old (or new) sockets in a pinch.

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A little bit of news. Spent some time last week in the garage but mainly on the Bandit.

Back to the VFR, I ordered the special sockets (as I did not feel like making my own) because I fell like it's easier to have a proper look at the engine now. I am still not sure how far I'll check: I will check valve clearance but I am not sure I'll remove both heads (= 2 new head gaskets...) but this is the only way to ensure that the cylinders are ok. Also, I'd like to check that there are no missing teeth in the gearbox and that the bearing near the sprocket is in good condition. I see what I can do without opening the casing in half.

Here is the engine now standing on my balcony:

WP_20151213_001_1024.JPG.1bb905533172f9760354ab081cad01ae.JPG

Now, it's also easier to remove the swingarm and check all bearings: swingarm, both front and rear wheel, stem and change the oil in the fork before I put the engine back in the frame and try to crack it 😉

Edited by bdouvill
Broken links to pictures

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If you can rent or borrow an inspection camera it would allow you to visually assess the cylinders without dis-assembling anything.

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Hi,

I'm currently working on the bike. I continued dismantling the bike for sanity checks (like bearings) and durt / mud / chain grease clean-up. I separated the frame, swingarm, rear wheel, shock, suspension linkage and fork. I also have apart front and rear brake systems, clutch command, dashboard and harness. Pictures will come soon.

But when I say fork, I mean front wheel, fork tubes and lower triple clamp. I did not succeed in removing the front axle shaft after I removed the bolt. On my Bandit; you need a 12 mm allen bolt to unscrew it but here I did not understand how you remove it. Is it screwed or just slipped into the rear fork leg then the front wheel then the right fork leg? I did not try to push it from the left side. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks a lot in advance.

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It simply slides in

once you removed the nut on the axke, you loosen the pinch bolts at the bottom-front of each leg (there are either one or two)

The axle should have (one the side opposite to where the nut sits) a hole in it.

stick a long screwdriver and rotate while pulling outwards.

bonne chance!

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Cylinders can be checked using compression tool. Even on the bench. Just make sure to hold the engine down lest it tries to jump around.

Gear box is bulletproof and chances that it is missing teeth are slim to none. I wouldn't bother. What you can do, is remove the oil pan and look for bits in it. If there are none, then your gears are OK.

Axle - As Dutchy said: One large bolt on the end and some pinch bolts are all that's holding it. Yours just needs a little persuasion.

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Extension socket and a rubber mallet will see the axle out in a few seconds. Pingggg!

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Thanks for your answers about the front axle, this was pretty straightforward indeed 😉

And now, some pics as promised.

1st: frame arrived on my balcony, engine felt a little bit lonely 😉

WP_20151225_013_1024.jpg.e3d193fe0130107bd90b621597156fd9.jpg

As you can see, still some mud on it but mainly grease from the chain and I suspect still a little bit of water inside.

WP_20151225_005_1024.jpg.99fb1b693271ef63434a4ebd4a3ef102.jpg

My plan is to remove most of the grease/dirt then probably "carwash" it, then let all water get out... Also, I kill a thread when removing the side stand. Not sure the 2 remaining bolt are enough with the weight of this beast...

WP_20151225_018_1024.jpg.c739e48a6b4be7f908824f57db46ccd4.jpg

The swingarm needs some cleaning too. Don't have 46 mm socket yet. Will see the internal later.

WP_20151225_023_1024.jpg.dcbcb9b69ff9d383a7067f77a64c038d.jpg

On front end, I have both front wheel bearing toasted. Rust does not come from the few days in water but from the 20+ years of usage.

DSC_0263_1024.JPG.82b079dfa0f86e885ff4eca46bd50617.JPG

Front tyre is also dead, almost flat on the left side:

DSC_0270_1024.JPG.28645332f42cb4249efbc10d5bf9f948.JPG

I did not plan on changing the front tyre before I am able to crack the engine, but I will definitely not ride it either this way... Rear tyre still got some life in.

Also, stem bearings also need a replacement from its past usage, there are both rusty.

WP_20151225_033_1024.jpg.6e3994608c3cce4195329fe52af2a34d.jpgWP_20151225_034_1024.jpg.a40408c71c60c05e4eb6f9f6cc1d12e8.jpg

Edited by bdouvill
Broken links to pictures

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More pictures:

Shock before and atfer my wife stroke, I guess you'll find which one come before/after 😉

WP_20151223_003_1024.jpg.f41f444a6f4a5864a2ea7a15691c4c99.jpgWP_20151225_045_1024.jpg.004b54103ab665a3b5c5fb5481d2934f.jpg

Preload adjuster works fine. But the screw at the bottom does not turn at all:

WP_20151225_039_1024.jpg.3a6e4989575b1649842a8b357572cebb.jpg

I guess this is not normal. I would say it is the compression setting, can anyone confirm? Also on the opposite side, you can see this:

WP_20151225_040_1024.jpg.2bffaa5f9a91a009dcd005add7b4fd93.jpg

I am not sure whether this is the same screw as the marks suggest the screw can not be turned/moved. On page 1-13 of the service manual, it is written that shock has both a compression and a rebound adjuster. Until now, I can not figure where is that rebound adjuster (assuming the previous screw is really the compression adjuster).

I cleaned and regreased the rear suspension linkage. Thanks to the seals, all bearings are in good condition, no water ever came in 😉

Also, I removed a metal plate from the left side on the frame, I have no idea of its function. Is that to deviate air to the regulator or something?

WP_20151225_036_1024.jpg.80ce719db8fdad2808ac8ac11a2157aa.jpg

The 2 marks are light rust. I have no mean to sand it, will see what I can do with this.

To finish, picture of myself fighting in the garage (until then, I won).

IMG_1888.JPG.f21ed5d234baf233ec13b1c5d420ffae.JPG

Edited by bdouvill
Broken links to pictures

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Screw at the bottom of the shock is really a combined low speed rebound/comp adjuster.

It should turn really easily.

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Screw at the bottom of the shock is really a combined low speed rebound/comp adjuster.

It should turn really easily.

I know. I had a GSXR 750 Showa shock on my Bandit 400 and you could easily adjust the screw position. But here, nothing happens. Can it be linked to the marks at the back that prevents the screw from turning?

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That looks like peening rather than accidental damage but I'm not really sure.

I have a 4th Gen shock lying about at home. I can take a look tomorrow night if nobody has an answer until then.

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For front wheel and steering bearing, I found that All Balls Bearings make some replacement kits that seem widely available in Europe thanks to Bihr dealers. Any comment to prevent me from ordering and rather go for Honda parts?

Edited by bdouvill

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For front wheel and steering bearing, I found that All Balls Bearings make some replacement kits that seem widely available in Europe thanks to Bihr dealers. Any comment to prevent me from ordering and rather go for Honda parts?

all the shops i have worked in use all balls . as for the neck bearings.. go for the tapered roller kit.

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Can it be linked to the marks at the back that prevents the screw from turning?

It definitely does not turn along with the adjuster screw on the other side on my 4th Gen shock.

Seems that it is just a plug that is peened in place to prevent tampering while the shock is under nitrogen pressure.

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All Balls are okay, but they tend to use no-name bearings in their kits (unlike Honda). Bearings are fairly standardised parts, so if you can find an automotive bearing supplier in your neck of the Med, you can order most of the bearings and seals you will need for a lot less money than either Honda or All Balls. See my bearings page for part and bearing numbers (and elsewhere on the site is a lot of other information about the RC36-I).

The tools you have ordered (I think) will allow you to tighten the frame and swing arm bolts, but not accurately set the torque. That requires an offset tool. However, you may become comfortable with guessing... :wink:

Getting the 46mm nut off the swing arm will be difficult. The preferred method is to do it with the swing arm on the bike, the chain and sprockets in place and the bike in gear. Too late now! I have a couple of eBay swing arms I will need to attack somehow, so please let me know how you do it!

The metal plate on the frame is to deflect the heat from the rear exhaust pipes. Riding your bike in summer with heat pouring onto your lower leg could be very uncomfortable without it.

The OEM rear shock does not have separate compression and rebound adjusters. I believe the combine the two (like some aftermarket shocks, like Hagon, do), but it may just be for rebound. The pre-load adjuster only moves the spring a few mm, but they tend to do nothing at all once the fluid leaks out... Can be re-filled at home, though, if you're intetrested. Might be time for a new shock, anyway.

For the stripped side stand thread, you can fix it with an insert. I've never used them, but they are well-regarded, assuming they are installed correctly. Helicoil and Timesert are the best known. The OEM thread for those holes is/was M10 x 1.25, which is the typical fine-pitch used on Hondas and other Japanese motorcycles. (M10 x 1.5 is the "normal" pitch, but there are no such threads used on your bike.)

Ciao,

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Not sure how many miles your rear shock has dome, but they are pretty crap to be honest.

If funds allow, get a new one, makes sense as the bike is stripped.

If you do, avoid Hagon, I had one for a very short while on my '93 and it was worse than the original.

I now have a Nitron on the rear and Ohlins linear springs up front with a 7.5 weight oil.

The difference is astounding

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First of all, happy new year to all of you that spend some time reading this thread and helping me. I wish you had quality time with your family and friends during that period of the year. 2015 has been a tough year for us Froggies, but I guess other people had their share of bad things too...

Anyway, let's go back to your topic ;-)

In no specific order:

All Balls are okay, but they tend to use no-name bearings in their kits (unlike Honda). Bearings are fairly standardised parts, so if you can find an automotive bearing supplier in your neck of the Med, you can order most of the bearings and seals you will need for a lot less money than either Honda or All Balls. See my bearings page for part and bearing numbers (and elsewhere on the site is a lot of other information about the RC36-I).

When having a look at the swingarm, I noticed that all bearing from the swingarm and rear wheel need to be replaced as well. I had a look at Honda prices and they are freakin'... Some rear wheel bearing cost 132€, fu%$...

So I started to look for dimensions and possible replacement and Google lead me on that very same page. Now, I need to figure how I can eventually replace all bearing by myself. The cost in saving might be worth investing in some quality tools. I was told we have a bearing specialist in the area and there's Internet as well. 123Roulement, French company, proposes all bearing possible sizings, both in 1st price and big manufaturer quality (they have Koyo, NTN,...). My only concern is for the bearing that requires an hydraulic press, not sure the shops in the area will be ok with replacing the bearings if I provide the new ones. I need to figure this out.

The tools you have ordered (I think) will allow you to tighten the frame and swing arm bolts, but not accurately set the torque. That requires an offset tool. However, you may become comfortable with guessing... :wink:

I believe I'll go with guessing first then we see how it goes.

Getting the 46mm nut off the swing arm will be difficult. The preferred method is to do it with the swing arm on the bike, the chain and sprockets in place and the bike in gear. Too late now! I have a couple of eBay swing arms I will need to attack somehow, so please let me know how you do it!

That's a good point that I started dismantling everything rather than just taking care of the engine because when I tried that 46 mm nut, I just found that it was not tighten at all. No idea if it has been done by the previous owner in his attempt to save the bike or not but who knows how it could have ended on the road...

The metal plate on the frame is to deflect the heat from the rear exhaust pipes. Riding your bike in summer with heat pouring onto your lower leg could be very uncomfortable without it.

OK, so I see later how I can properly remove the rust and spray it with heat paint.

For the stripped side stand thread, you can fix it with an insert. I've never used them, but they are well-regarded, assuming they are installed correctly. Helicoil and Timesert are the best known. The OEM thread for those holes is/was M10 x 1.25, which is the typical fine-pitch used on Hondas and other Japanese motorcycles. (M10 x 1.5 is the "normal" pitch, but there are no such threads used on your bike.)

Maybe I see that one with one of the shops in my area.

The OEM rear shock does not have separate compression and rebound adjusters. I believe the combine the two (like some aftermarket shocks, like Hagon, do), but it may just be for rebound. The pre-load adjuster only moves the spring a few mm, but they tend to do nothing at all once the fluid leaks out... Can be re-filled at home, though, if you're intetrested. Might be time for a new shock, anyway.

Not sure how many miles your rear shock has dome, but they are pretty crap to be honest.

If funds allow, get a new one, makes sense as the bike is stripped.

If you do, avoid Hagon, I had one for a very short while on my '93 and it was worse than the original.

I now have a Nitron on the rear and Ohlins linear springs up front with a 7.5 weight oil.

The difference is astounding

I believe in the beginning, I will try to ride with this one. Remember my initial idea was to restart the bike. My idea now is to make it back to its default look (probably with replica fairings) and keep it as long as I can. The only mod I would be interested in are stainless steel exhaust pipe with aftermarket can (I follow carefully the TBR replica thread) but more importantly suspension upgrade. In my baby Bandit, I have Racetech linear spring and Gold Valve emulator in the fork and an M-Shock rear shock from Shock Factory (see here). That's the best bang for the buck you can get in Europe. I mounted it 4 month ago. Only rode like 2000 km since but I am really pleased, definitely better than my Showa from a 04-05 GSX-R 750. I believe for the VFR, I'll renew my trust in Shock Factory and see for Racetech or DMr for the fork.

For rear shocks, we also have EMC in France which has a good reputation. Mike Capon who is the founder of Shock Factory is a former employee of EMC. Its website only lists one model with only one setting (both for compression and rebound) which is very similar to EMC SportShock one, but I know he proposes also a newer version with 2 settings (one for low speed movements, the other one for higher speed ones) similar to EMC Sportshock 2. I heard Mike sells a lot of those for Yamaha MT09/FZ09 which are known to have terrible rear shock as standard (I saw one MT09 with that shock).

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