So What Does The Bike Industry Think Of Dct?

[RogueWave]

Honda has several models that use it. I think Aprilia has something like it too. Are other manufacturers embracing the idea of paddle shifters and automatic shifting?

[Mohawk]

Not sure about the industry, but where as most car drivers are lazy & a car is a means of transport, they have success with such banal rubbish.

On the bike front, most people ride because of a passion, thus they want to be involved in the process, which this kind of tech detracts from IMO. So market penetration has not been good. Honda produced a semi automatic CB400 & a few models since that never sold well except to commuters & that is the issue. They sell for a premium, when a car is generally a better commuting device than a bike, so they don't sell.

[Skids]

I always find it curious, the differing views of new technology; ABS, TC and now DCT.

For me, DCT is equally involving and allows even better riding. Just because there are automatic modes (it's NOT an automatic gearbox) doesn't mean you have to use them. What DCT does allow is more involvement with the corner with seamless gear changes when I want them. There are no missed changes or false neutrals or just generally a bad change allowing me to focus more on the corner than otherwise, albeit only a small amount. I feel faster in, through and out although I accept this is only my impression. The fact that I don't have to squeeze my left hand and lift my left foot means I'm not having to think about coordinating that and can concentrate more on other things.

If improved fuel maps (and all the other mods we do to our bikes) are a plus because they smooth out throttle response, why isn't a gearbox that smoothes gear changes a plus also?

JMHO.

edit: No, I don't (yet) own a DCT but have test ridden both the F and X model DCTs so far so the above is a constrained opinion.

[lshark]

i think Gold Wing riders would love the DCT

[luvtoleanit]

I'd never willingly purchase it at this point. Perhaps in 20 years where it is a must due to physical ailment.

I have ABS and hate it, wish I could remove it, and don't need TC either.

[marriedman]

I used to think that the DCT kind of ruined half the fun. But just this past Nov/Dec I had real problem where I could not move my left leg. Well, I could drag it and wiggle my toes, but fine motor control was not there. That would pretty much bench me from motorcycle riding. But with the DCT, I would have been able to. Now I am thinking that this technology isn't quite so silly.

[EhViffer]

Gives people another reason to get on a motorcycle and that's a good thing. Have driven clutch cars my whole life and wife and I even have AZ licence designation (tractor trailer with air brakes - non synchromesh 10 speed transmission) just because we always wanted to. Last couple of years I have bought Audi's with DCT (a TTS and S5) and quite enjoyed it. Wife and I bought VFR1200's with DCT three years ago after getting our motorcycle licence (on a clutch bike) and have never looked back. We have been across the US and Canada every summer since and are known at our Honda dealer as "those two crazy high milers". Not sure if we bought a clutch bike instead we would have been so bold as to head from Toronto to Alberta and back after having a motorbike licence for under a month. We did the US midwest last summer and will head down the Canadian and US west coast this summer. The DCT allowed us to focus on handling the bike with confidence. I get that it is not for everyone and our next bikes could very well have a regular clutch setup but I would recommend the DCT as a great way to get out their and ride with confidence.

Maybe that's what Honda was thinking when they introduced it?

[marriedman]

Well said EhViffer!

[Mohawk]

Yep, as previously mentioned Harley riders or the Touring brigade would love it. But its extra complexity, extra weight & worst of all significant extra cost where for want of a better term its not required. I have no objection to it but as the question was what do the industry think, well due to the very poor uptake on the idea from any manufacturers, I guess the answer is not alot.

It has a place, as did the CB400 auto, but its more like, twist & go scooters than an involving ride. But that's just MO.

[EhViffer]

Yep, as previously mentioned Harley riders or the Touring brigade would love it. But its extra complexity, extra weight & worst of all significant extra cost where for want of a better term its not required. I have no objection to it but as the question was what do the industry think, well due to the very poor uptake on the idea from any manufacturers, I guess the answer is not alot.

It has a place, as did the CB400 auto, but its more like, twist & go scooters than an involving ride. But that's just MO.

Honda seems to be extending the DCT to many more models in 2015 so we'll see if other manufactures put their toe into the market.

Be interested should My Opinion (MO) progress to My Experience (ME) when you have actually spent some time on a VFR1200 DCT. If you have I would be very interested as your comments as your opinion does not reflect my experience.

Extra complex? - not in my experience. Bike has been bullet proof.

Extra weight? - compared to what? My experience is the bike rides 100 pounds lighter than it is.

Extra cost? - Tremendous deals out there for out of the box models. My experience was a good deal on both bikes.

Having experienced a twist and go scooter as compared to my 1200 I can't agree with your "involving ride" comment - but that's just MO based on ME.

[jugornot]

I love that people that have never ridden a dct can pass judgement on it. I propose a law saying anyone without first hand experience can not express their opinion on the subject. That would shut up the people who say you shouldn't ride motorcycles because they are dangerous. Males couldn't comment on birth pain. And people that have never ridden a dct bike can not comment on how much it takes away from the the enjoyment of the biking experience. Once you have ridden and you may profess your dislike or not. Its almost like harley riders that know there is no better bike than a harley. How many times have I heard "why don't you get a real bike?" from harley riders. Now its "thats not a real bike its a scooter." Opinion without experience is called prejudice.

Meanwhile to the original poster I loved the dct. Mainly for the convience in slow moving traffic. On a curvy road it had a manual option that made it just like my yamaha but without a clutch.

Just as much fun.

[Tamworth]

Yep, as previously mentioned Harley riders or the Touring brigade would love it. But its extra complexity, extra weight & worst of all significant extra cost where for want of a better term its not required. I have no objection to it but as the question was what do the industry think, well due to the very poor uptake on the idea from any manufacturers, I guess the answer is not alot.

It has a place, as did the CB400 auto, but its more like, twist & go scooters than an involving ride. But that's just MO.

The main issue with popularity of DCT is ignorance of dct and technology itself. people who have no idea what it does and how it performs always equate it to automatics and Goldwings.

[Tamworth]

Not sure about the industry, but where as most car drivers are lazy & a car is a means of transport, they have success with such banal rubbish.

On the bike front, most people ride because of a passion, thus they want to be involved in the process, which this kind of tech detracts from IMO. So market penetration has not been good. Honda produced a semi automatic CB400 & a few models since that never sold well except to commuters & that is the issue. They sell for a premium, when a car is generally a better commuting device than a bike, so they don't sell.

How do you come to the conclusion that "most car drivers are lazy"? Can you explain this theory?

The only cars that come with DCT are high performance and most would leave a vfr800 a tiny dot in the rear view mirror.

Nissan GTR "banal rubbish"

[swimmer]

o it but as the question was what do the industry think, well due to the very poor uptake on the idea from any manufacturers, I guess the answer is not alot.

Also it might be worth noting the other manufactures may not be capable of implementing a DCT type technology onto a bike in a way that justifies the R&D expense for them. If Honda and Triumph both spend 1% of their budget on R&D the total money spent is very different. It takes a much smaller percent of Honda's budget to develope DCT that it would Suzuki. Add in the additional resources at Honda's disposal and it seem reasonable why Honda does and others can't justify it. Not saying they don't have to justify the expense by the sales it generates just saying they have the capability to do so more than any other manufacture. Still though, yet to be seen if its a success regardless of how well it appears to work.

[Marsman99]

DCT is banal rubbish? What a bullshit statement. This technology was developed and is used at the pinnacle of motor sports, F1 and MotoGP. I don't think banal is a term applied to anything developed in MotoGP or F1.

Not involved in the process, no passion? Jeez, it isn't fucking autopilot. Anyone who actually knows anything about a DCT would know that it has a manual mode that requires up/down shifting. In spirited riding there is plenty of "involvement in the process". What it actually offers are options that a clutch bike doesn't, such as Auto shift when you're droning down a highway, in traffic or splitting lanes (in Cali). With a DCT you can shift when you want, or go auto. Can't do that on a clutch bike. Moreover, if anyone spewing baseless opinions had actually ridden one more than a few fucking miles they'd know that the DCT is actually superior to a clutch operated transmission in every way but wheelies and slow speed manuevering.

To imply the DCT target market is for elderly, lazy or physically challenged riders is just plain ignorant.

The question is how the industry is embracing the DCT, or variations of it. I don't think the VFR 1200FD is a good indicator. Let's face it, none of the 1200's exactly flew off the dealer floors, F or FD. That had little to do with DCT, more to do with a bike with a value of $10-12K being sold for $17K. The additional $1K for the DCT made it worse for the FD though. Personally, I don't think the DCT will ever be mainstream because of the price and weight differences. I think they'll appear on more bikes where these penalties don't have as much impact...hate to say it, but Goldwings are prime candidates.

[lshark]

i believe that Honda's patents on the DCT technology might be keeping other manufacturers from jumping on the bandwagon

can we lay off of the "Anyone who actually knows anything..." and "just plain ignorant" type comments on this forum.....save that shit for facebook

[RogueWave]

That is what I am interested in knowing, if other manufacturers are planning DCT setups. I live in a congested area with a lot of stop and go riding. There was one time on my Nighthawk I was stuck in traffic, I think there was an accident up ahead, and almost fatigued my hand to the point I could not operate the bike. That is one major reason I bought a VFR1200. Many people ride in urban areas, some target marketing to those riders would be a smart move.

I even considered getting a scooter ~shutters~. Thank God for DTH, it saves me much embarrassment ;)

Yep, as previously mentioned Harley riders or the Touring brigade would love it. But its extra complexity, extra weight & worst of all significant extra cost where for want of a better term its not required. I have no objection to it but as the question was what do the industry think, well due to the very poor uptake on the idea from any manufacturers, I guess the answer is not alot.

It has a place, as did the CB400 auto, but its more like, twist & go scooters than an involving ride. But that's just MO.

Honda seems to be extending the DCT to many more models in 2015 so we'll see if other manufactures put their toe into the market.

Be interested should My Opinion (MO) progress to My Experience (ME) when you have actually spent some time on a VFR1200 DCT. If you have I would be very interested as your comments as your opinion does not reflect my experience.

Extra complex? - not in my experience. Bike has been bullet proof.

Extra weight? - compared to what? My experience is the bike rides 100 pounds lighter than it is.

Extra cost? - Tremendous deals out there for out of the box models. My experience was a good deal on both bikes.

Having experienced a twist and go scooter as compared to my 1200 I can't agree with your "involving ride" comment - but that's just MO based on ME.

[Marsman99]

i believe that Honda's patents on the DCT technology might be keeping other manufacturers from jumping on the bandwagon

can we lay off of the "Anyone who actually knows anything..." and "just plain ignorant" type comments on this forum.....save that shit for facebook

Ignorance is not stupidity, it is literally lack of knowledge or experience. I stand by my statements.

However, you make a good point about Honda's patents possibly limiting others rolling out DCT in their street bikes. Apparently, Yamaha has added a clutch to the other side of the engine as a means to differ from Honda ( both clutches on one side) and is what Yamaha introduced to counter Honda in MotoGP. The rumors are that an R1 version with DCT will be made available eventually. If so, then I think this will lead to Honda offering a CBR version. If this comes to pass, I think the original question of how the industry (more importantly the buying public) embraces DCT will be truly revealed. IMO the VFR DCT is not a good bellweather for this - the bike is too conflicted in all areas to answer the DCT question alone. That said, I love my VFR and am truly glad I made the decision to go with the DCT version.

[zedXmick]

Reminds me of a song that is popular with my 10 year old daughter......and the haters gonna hate,hate,hate....

I hope the other manufactures DO bring out their version of DCT across all types of bikes...that can only make the tech better.

To all the haters.....I bet you guy's screamed like little girls when slipper clutches became the norm for sport bikes too.....real riders only use normal clutches....blah,blah blah.

I've been riding motorcycles since I was ten years old(dirt bikes until 16) now I'm 52 and I for one embrace all the changes that have come to motorcycles. The DCT is the next wave of evolution for the gear box.

I wish the manufactures would embrace the next generation of the RADD x2 front suspension.....bring out a motorcycle with the RADD x2 front end,with a three cylinder engine ala FJ 09,(or a modern 1000cc V4) with DCT and EAS suspension,and top it off with chain drive SSS ala the 2014 VFR 800. I ain't getting any younger.....

I've OWNED my VFR 1200 DCT for three years now.....did work commuting on it daily (70 miles a day) averaged 43 mpg during my interstate 70 mph commute. I've sport toured on it,(taking two weeks vacation time) with my longest mile day of 825 miles. I've even ridden it to Road America and did a track day and road it home. Through it all the VFR DCT puts a smile on my face every ride.

I would love to see the new FJ 09 with the yamaha version of DCT.....but thats just me.

hate,hate,hate....carry on

[luvtoleanit]

Yep, as previously mentioned Harley riders or the Touring brigade would love it. But its extra complexity, extra weight & worst of all significant extra cost where for want of a better term its not required. I have no objection to it but as the question was what do the industry think, well due to the very poor uptake on the idea from any manufacturers, I guess the answer is not alot.

It has a place, as did the CB400 auto, but its more like, twist & go scooters than an involving ride. But that's just MO.

The main issue with popularity of DCT is ignorance of dct and technology itself. people who have no idea what it does and how it performs always equate it to automatics and Goldwings.

Some of us have a lot of experience with the technology. I have driven a few cars with much more complex DCT's than what Honda offers on the 1200 and ridden in a number of others. Having test ridden the 1200 DCT and driven a number of automobiles from 20k to 300k I can personally say that manual or not getting my money. I don't have a problem with them being offered, just not my cup of tea. I prefer to shift myself and find it more engaging whether driving an automobile or riding a motorcycle. I'm not against the technology at all I just don't want it in my garage. I'd have the R35 in my garage right now if Nissan offered it with a manual.

[Volfy]

I prefer doing my own shifting on a motorcycle - if for no other reason than plain out of habit. But if I can't ride for whatever reason and have to get in a car, I'd rather relax and let the car do its thing. I used to do AutoX and SCCA, but these days, cars are mostly just transportation.

I test rode the VFR1200 DCT and I have to say it did everything as good - if not better - than I could. Every downshift is timed and rev-matched perfectly... something I still struggle to do consistently. I have no problem buying this tech if and when manual shifting on a bike becomes a chore. For now, at least, it hasn't.

[Duc2V4]

i believe that Honda's patents on the DCT technology might be keeping other manufacturers from jumping on the bandwagon

can we lay off of the "Anyone who actually knows anything..." and "just plain ignorant" type comments on this forum.....save that shit for facebook

Ignorance is not stupidity, it is literally lack of knowledge or experience. I stand by my statements.

Forgive my ignorance, but I think it is a quote from Mark Twain..."We are all ignorant, just about different things". (I might also be paraphrasing) So saying someone is ignorant isn't really a bad thing, more like the pot, calling the kettle black!

Back on topic, I recall the 80's era Honda ATC's had an automatic clutch with a shifter. Made it real easy for young ones to learn to shift as it required no clutch work. It also made for a great wheelie machine! Push the lever down and twist the throttle and let go of the shifter and Instant wheelie! Sorry, I digress. The lack of a "clutch" IMO doesn't make the bike any less fun to ride, see previous remark, and the DCT has even more to offer than the ATC's automatic clutch system did.

Although I can see DCT technology inching its way into some bikes, like the commuter bikes for instance, doesn't Honda make an NC-700 with DCT now? Just like anti-lock brakes, traction control and a few other electronic goodies have done, so may the DCT technology, which to some may not be to their liking. However, as long as we do not run into the government mandated rules about what our motorcycles must have, I do believe that there will always be the "two worlds", traditional shifting and DCT type. Unless we lose all of the die hard enthusiast, and left with "lazy" drivers wanting to get on motorcycles.

[mk2davis]

To the original question, I think the industry likes DCT. Some riders may not (just like some drivers don't like autos or paddle shifters), but anything that is going to help broaden the appeal of riding to more riders should be viewed as a win to the industry.

What I don't understand, and this is probably due to my ignorance, is the appeal to DCT on touring bikes. It seems like the real advantage would be with commuter bikes.

[EhViffer]

i believe that Honda's patents on the DCT technology might be keeping other manufacturers from jumping on the bandwagon

can we lay off of the "Anyone who actually knows anything..." and "just plain ignorant" type comments on this forum.....save that shit for facebook

Ignorance is not stupidity, it is literally lack of knowledge or experience. I stand by my statements.

Forgive my ignorance, but I think it is a quote from Mark Twain..."We are all ignorant, just about different things". (I might also be paraphrasing) So saying someone is ignorant isn't really a bad thing, more like the pot, calling the kettle black!

Back on topic, I recall the 80's era Honda ATC's had an automatic clutch with a shifter. Made it real easy for young ones to learn to shift as it required no clutch work. It also made for a great wheelie machine! Push the lever down and twist the throttle and let go of the shifter and Instant wheelie! Sorry, I digress. The lack of a "clutch" IMO doesn't make the bike any less fun to ride, see previous remark, and the DCT has even more to offer than the ATC's automatic clutch system did.

Although I can see DCT technology inching its way into some bikes, like the commuter bikes for instance, doesn't Honda make an NC-700 with DCT now? Just like anti-lock brakes, traction control and a few other electronic goodies have done, so may the DCT technology, which to some may not be to their liking. However, as long as we do not run into the government mandated rules about what our motorcycles must have, I do believe that there will always be the "two worlds", traditional shifting and DCT type. Unless we lose all of the die hard enthusiast, and left with "lazy" drivers wanting to get on motorcycles.

Ha ha, to all you die hard enthusiasts I salute you and as soon as the damn weather gets above sub zero I shall mount my lazy ass upon my mighty steed and roll into another great season of riding. Meanwhile I scratch away my thoughts on VFRD during the "off the bike season" reading facts, opinions, jokes, blogs and looking at links, pics and vids to deal with the riding itch and medicating my selective ignorance.

[Duc2V4]

i believe that Honda's patents on the DCT technology might be keeping other manufacturers from jumping on the bandwagon

can we lay off of the "Anyone who actually knows anything..." and "just plain ignorant" type comments on this forum.....save that shit for facebook

Ignorance is not stupidity, it is literally lack of knowledge or experience. I stand by my statements.

Forgive my ignorance, but I think it is a quote from Mark Twain..."We are all ignorant, just about different things". (I might also be paraphrasing) So saying someone is ignorant isn't really a bad thing, more like the pot, calling the kettle black!

Back on topic, I recall the 80's era Honda ATC's had an automatic clutch with a shifter. Made it real easy for young ones to learn to shift as it required no clutch work. It also made for a great wheelie machine! Push the lever down and twist the throttle and let go of the shifter and Instant wheelie! Sorry, I digress. The lack of a "clutch" IMO doesn't make the bike any less fun to ride, see previous remark, and the DCT has even more to offer than the ATC's automatic clutch system did.

Although I can see DCT technology inching its way into some bikes, like the commuter bikes for instance, doesn't Honda make an NC-700 with DCT now? Just like anti-lock brakes, traction control and a few other electronic goodies have done, so may the DCT technology, which to some may not be to their liking. However, as long as we do not run into the government mandated rules about what our motorcycles must have, I do believe that there will always be the "two worlds", traditional shifting and DCT type. Unless we lose all of the die hard enthusiast, and left with "lazy" drivers wanting to get on motorcycles.

Ha ha, to all you die hard enthusiasts I salute you and as soon as the damn weather gets above sub zero I shall mount my lazy ass upon my mighty steed and roll into another great season of riding. Meanwhile I scratch away my thoughts on VFRD during the "off the bike season" reading facts, opinions, jokes, blogs and looking at links, pics and vids to deal with the riding itch and medicating my selective ignorance.

Personally I have nothing against DCT and as long as the vehicle has 2 wheels, with mandated technology or not, I'll be riding! In fact, since I'm in Sunny California, I'd be riding all year long too! Sorry about the sub zero temps ehViffer, you're always welcome to join us down here. If you do drop by, I like to medicate my ignorance with Irish Whiskey, after all, it is the water of life! Oh, Crown Royal will do in a pinch.

Cheers!