Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 30, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 30, 2014 Looks good ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hey All, I received this email from Rod... I got the info, it is quite detailed of what they want. I would like to see some pictures of what they want to replace. 2 O2 sensors, three pipe sizes, center stand stop can all be done but what is the price you are hoping for? This was to my email to him Hi Rod,Looking on the VFRD forum it looks like you were emailed the specifications requested by the group, if not I can forward them to you. Not sure what the time frame or expectations are but if/when you need my motorcycle for your mock up testing please let me know. You can either send me an email or give me a call.Thank You,Darryl I think the pictures he was asking for was more for the O2 sensors but I think the more important one is his last question...but what is the price you are hoping for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hey All, I received this email from Rod... I got the info, it is quite detailed of what they want. I would like to see some pictures of what they want to replace. 2 O2 sensors, three pipe sizes, center stand stop can all be done but what is the price you are hoping for? This was to my email to him Hi Rod, Looking on the VFRD forum it looks like you were emailed the specifications requested by the group, if not I can forward them to you. Not sure what the time frame or expectations are but if/when you need my motorcycle for your mock up testing please let me know. You can either send me an email or give me a call. Thank You, Darryl I think the pictures he was asking for was more for the O2 sensors but I think the more important one is his last question...but what is the price you are hoping for? I think that depends on volume and would ask him if he could quote a system like at the following volumes for the initial order: 20 units 50 units 75 units 100 units That way he is thinking about the economies of scale he can take advantage of and we can see whether it is worth it to wait an extra 90 days or so to get to a number that more can afford. Also he may be more interested in providing the header and not the silencer so we should be flexible with regards to that as well. At some volume the price stops dropping and he may know where that is. This is not an actual quote but assuming something in the neighborhood of: 20 units $575 50 units $550 75 units $500 100+ units $435 I think something within these parameters can be mutually beneficial but I do not know his overhead structure or the workload of his employees. If, for example, they are normally slow from November to March he could say we will take this on but you must have deposits on all to be built by end of year and we will build them at our leisure but they will ship before April. Knowing his work on the VFR400 system and Hawk GT system I might be up for more than 4 units. Even if he were to only get 50 initial orders he would be able to use us as a "sponsor" to get into this market and would have a product for sale that covers (at this time) the past 17 years of VFR800 products while we pay him to learn how and how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jim v Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 Price-wise I would expect it to be a good deal more than that, I hope you're right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 Price-wise I would expect it to be a good deal more than that, I hope you're right! It is the start of a negotiation... I believe he quoted a price of $730 for a one off system for Voided so $575 for bunch of them shouldn't be that far off... 20 units should be significantly less than $730 and we are at that number right now. He could be looking at a potential $12K order right now. I suggest we tell him we were thinking around $550 -$575 for 20 headers. TBR is willing to sell at a $600 price point for headers and mid-pipe with hardware. Rod needs to make a profit. Ask him how much he would need to sell them for to make 15% over cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 on the fence but if the price is fair I'm in . Somebody needs to post something on the other VFR'r forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Writing up an email right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Email sent! Let's see what Rod has to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 on the fence but if the price is fair I'm in . Somebody needs to post something on the other VFR'r forums.Let's get our group buy set-up before muddying the water... I'm all for sharing, we already shared the TBR offer info on the world and a couple of people on the commit to buy list are from that forum and continue to add to this discussion thread. The info is available to those who are interested...Let's keep this focused and systematic and we can get it acomplished... Writing up an email right now...Do you have an example photo of catless headers and a set with O2 bungs to send him for layout? Let me know.. I think I have a pic with both headers side by side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Let me know if any other pics would help. I can take some of the stock O2 bungs but he can see those on Duc's bike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Anyone with pics, please send or post them, I'll forward them to Rod. Otherwise I have to take some when I get the chance, maybe Saturday or Sunday at the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Anyone with pics, please send or post them, I'll forward them to Rod. Otherwise I have to take some when I get the chance, maybe Saturday or Sunday at the earliest.Please see CC previous post for a picAlso, please make sure Rod received the specs we agreed to and not something someone else emailed him... thanks for being the point of contact for communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Let me know if any other pics would help. I can take some of the stock O2 bungs but he can see those on Duc's bike... If we build in some O2 bungs it would be good for us 5G owners to include some plugs in the kit. Not sure it adds anything for the '98-'99 owners to have these ports added, as the above pic of my exhausts show. But I'm still in, the suggested pricing seems reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Anyone with pics, please send or post them, I'll forward them to Rod. Otherwise I have to take some when I get the chance, maybe Saturday or Sunday at the earliest.Please see CC previous post for a picAlso, please make sure Rod received the specs we agreed to and not something someone else emailed him... thanks for being the point of contact for communication. Voided sent him the specs last week before I sent my follow up email but I'll make sure we confirm them with him. I grabbed CC's picture already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klrtovfr Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I can take pictures of my 02 catted header in the morning if you need it for center stand stop and 02 locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 I can take pictures of my 02 catted header in the morning if you need it for center stand stop and 02 locations. Works for me. Tomorrow I have a 13 hour day at the minimum! Leave around 7:00A and head home around 8:00P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thanks for being point man on this Duc. @Capn, I agree regarding the O2 plugs but they should be available at any 3rd tier parts supplier (AutoZone, Pep Boys, O'Reilly etc...) so that shouldn't be a deal breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 So I received a message from Rod... The $730 price was for a VFR400/RVF400 group. I continue to sell at the price since the jigs have all been paid for now. Low production always cost more I am afraid. I am not saying it will be that price, it all just depends on the material cost, time to put it together and build the jigs. Without seeing what I am building it is hard to just come up with a cost. Which is in response to my email... Rod,The one member who got the ball rolling for gathering a collective buying group, was given a $600 price range from 2 Bros for header and mid-pipe with hardware but the initial number of orders was a bit on the high side. So his question directed to you was, What would you need to sell them for in order for you to make 15% over cost? (If that is too forward of us, my apologies)Note that we are looking to get you at least 20 orders in at the start and hopefully pay in the neighborhood of $550.00 - $575.00 Of course that means a firm committal from all 20 of us but if that means more initial buyers are needed to get in that price range, we can probably do that as well. Right now we have a handful of "wait and see" members who are waiting to hear a final price, so we might get then to commit at the start. As far as where this price range came from, it was based on the $730.00 quote that you gave for a one off kit and he number from 2 Bros.That being said, if there are number combos that work for you i.e. 20 units $575.00; 50 units $550.00; 75 units $500.00; 100+ units $4XX.00, please let us know. As with this info we might get those still on the fence to commit.Also, we know that the headers are interchangeable between the 5&6 generations as a few members have put the '98 model (Cat-less) headers on the 6 generation ('02-'09) bikes and we have heard that the 2014 model uses the same setup as the '02-'09 but have not confirmed that just yet. It appears that the mid-pipe is what differs amongst the models. So hopefully what you would be building, has future sales for the latest generation VFR800 as well!On a different note, what pictures can I get for you? I assume your primary photo would be of the O2 bungs? Did you need pictures of the center stand stop as well? I can also take pictures of the 5th generation (2001 model) so you can see the slight differences in the two models. Let me know what I can get you.P.S. It seems like your emails are still getting stuck in my spam folder so if I don't respond right away, it may be because it hasn't reached my inbox.Thanks,Darryl Not sure where our wires got crossed with the $730.00 price for a VFR400 group buy, vs. a "one off' but that was kind of embarrassing.That being said, I have a set of 98 headers in my garage that were destined to be put on my '01 I'll see if he would like to see these first hand so that he gets something tangible in front of him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 ... Not sure where our wires got crossed with the $730.00 price for a VFR400 group buy, vs. a "one off' but that was kind of embarrassing.That being said, I have a set of 98 headers in my garage that were destined to be put on my '01 I'll see if he would like to see these first hand so that he gets something tangible in front of him! Sorry for the price mix-up, it was posted earlier (Post #203). Certainly didn't want to cause any embarassment or friction with Rod... just honest, straightforward price negatiation... a win-win situation for both parties if it works out. Thanks again Duc for handling communication with the fabricator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 Instead of trying to dictate a price, why not just say that we will have about 20 (or 30) orders, and see what he comes back with. I don't think I would use the TBR price since they 'should' have all the tooling still, and we are requesting additional features and specific dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted August 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't think we intend to dictate a price but I think it can be awkward during that initial negotiating stage so it is not uncommon for one side or the other to throw out a ballpark figure that they are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klrtovfr Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 2002 stock catted header Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 2, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 2, 2014 Instead of trying to dictate a price, why not just say that we will have about 20 (or 30) orders, and see what he comes back with. I don't think I would use the TBR price since they 'should' have all the tooling still, and we are requesting additional features and specific dimensions. TBR does not have the jigs... they will be starting from scratch. The specific demensions are based on readily available in the US standard stainless steel tubing to reduce costs... just so happens they almost exactly match TBRs demensions so I'm guessing some of their decisions for the tubing sizes also had economics involved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voided76 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 When we, the 95% of us that want a functional header and care not whether or not it's a two brothers unit get our header, the demand will once again evaporate in front of twobros, so I guess they can go back to hanging the same muffler on every sportbike on the block. heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted August 2, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 2, 2014 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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