Tire Baby

[Guest]

All I can say is, "WoW!" I can't believe how some people react about tires.
This guy I am helping out has a third gen VFR. He should let the bike do the whining.

So I offered to do another set of tires for another out-of-state VFR owner.
Granted more times than not, I put myself out there and buy a set of tires which I don't normally run, then something comes up and the VFR owner doesn't show.
Then I end up donating an odd set of tires to a friend to get them off the shelf.

So here is how it plays out this time.
Remember before you start reading that I am not a business.
I change out a lot of tires for guys on vacation to help them out.
I don't make any money doing this. My pricing is JakeWilson.com prices.
I offered this individual 220.00 to install a set of Michelin's. I always install chrome steel valve stems, there's wheel weights and tire disposal fees.
Do the math. There is no extra money being made on this deal. What a your local shops labor rates? I am pulling the tire off of the bike.

I don't know who this person is only that some of you referred him my way. I should have said no once he began not trusting my abilities...



Awesome! Were gonna get there Saturday, June 14th, probably later in the day(riding from Indiana) so just plan on then? We'll just ride straight to your place.

I received the rear tire on Tuesday.

Awesome! Yeah, I'm very excited to try em out!

Hey, I was wondering how long you anticipate the tires to take to remove, change, and reinstall. I ride a 93, stock position for the exhaust. Also, how frequently would you say you've dented or scratched rims? I apologize for asking these questions now, I should have asked them before I agreed to the rims, but I am possibly getting my rims powdercoated and want to ensure they don't get damaged, and we'll be getting in around 5ish, so I want to make sure we have time.

It takes about an hour.
I have never scratched a wheel. It is about impossible to dent the wheel.
The pipe still needs to come off to remove the wheel.

You can see how I work on YouTube - RideWNC. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=RIDEWNC
This one will be similar to yours:

I do over a hundred bikes a year from my house.

Since I don't have video for a 3rd Gen VFR, I will be shooting video while I do your bike.

Alright man, I trust you 100%, my dad is not a very trusting guy, and those were his points for concern. And that's cool, hope my bike looks good enough for it :P

I get it. I have been riding for over thirty years.
I have found my share of unscrupulous mechanics.
This is part of the reason why I go out of my way to help out other riders.
I figure some day the good I have done for others, might be rewarded.


Hey Mike, I'm sorry that I haven't gotten a hold of you yet. Yesterday we had to cancel the trip, so I won't be able to pick up those tires. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused, I wish I could have let you know more in advance.

I was expecting this.
This is the same e-mail I get from 90% of the VFR guys.


You expected my paint job to go from taking two days to three weeks, quadrupling the price from the original quote, and my dad's Gold Wing to fall onto his car? Very well done. I had no idea that simply being a "VFR guy" gave me a 90% more likely chance of cancelling this trip. Had I known that, I probably wouldn't have planned it in the first place, but you live and learn.. And at first it just seemed like you were bunching me into a category and making ridiculous assumptions about me based off of nothing other than what motorcycle I own, but now I see that this is valuable information! I'll be sure to spread the word, as this will save a lot of guys time and money. Thanks!

Oh, and hope Havagan enjoys his new tires.


Nice Rant.
I was expecting you to cancel.
You forget that you asked me to do your tires and I bought an odd sized tire for you which I now have to find another buyer or I am out 114.99.
So as the saying goes, "no good deed goes unpunished."

Please reread what you wrote and when you mature maybe you will understand how childish it sounds.
Do spread the word. I am not a business. I help out riders.

I was doing you a favor and you are so ungrateful that you forget to appreciate when someone attempts to do something nice for you...

Gob Bless.

MikeE



This wasn't in my e-mail but I was thinking it:
Got to say, Thank God Havagan has a bike with a 170.
And I am sure Paul will enjoy the tire.
He appreciates a friend.


Flame me as you will.
Just remember I am not a business and it does leave pain in my wallet when I drop a couple hundred dollars on tires
and the person wanting them doesn't show up. Think about what 200.00 lost means to you. It is the same for me.

I am not a bible thumper.

Around here "God Bless" has another meaning.

[Havagan]

The Ducati thanks you.

[Rice]

Mike,

Judging by this exchange, you have come across an asshole. Not much more to say about that.

P.S.

I have meat you in person when you helped out one of our riders who went down not far from your house. You spent a few hours welding his radiator and fixing other bits to get him back on the road. All free of charge.

I would not hesitate to trust you with much more than just my bike.

[spud786]

Maybe you show go into business, and charge a deposit or the full tire price ahead of time if you have to special order, do you accept visa or master card , you should.

My assumption from reading this thread and a couple others that you've posted is that you enjoy helping out riders , and get the shaft many times in doing so.

I guess when people come up your way, they are trying to find a place to have tires mounted ahead of time, and this is where you come in as a recommendation.

I think you'll have to look at it more business like in the future, to avoid not VFR's but flakiness of people in general.

[Guest]

I don't want to be business like. I feel it takes away from a sprouting friendship.

However, in the future, PayPal will be my friend if folks I don't know from out of town want to plan for their vacation with tires I don't personally use.

I easily save people 100.00 on a set of tires. And that is something worth smiling about.

I was talking to a VFR member and his wife last week, he paid 458.00 for a set of Power3 that I would have done for 275.00 and I had them on the shelf. 190/55 & 120.

I am looking forward to seeing them again in September on their next trip down.

After I keyed this, I went out and worked in my garden an chuckled about it.

All the riders I have helped out, and this one little turd gets under my skin.

I was thinking back in May, I should have just called it off when he was worried about his precious rims getting scratched.

If I didn't care about bikes and their owners, I would have purchased a Harbor Freight changer, not spend fifteen times more on a Coats machine... Shaking head from side to side.

[Duc2V4]

I have been the victim of the "No good deed goes unpunished" a few times, some have been personal and other times work related. As much as you don't want to become bitter or jaded, it does affect how quickly you offer a hand the next time being helpful comes around. The one thing about print i.e. Text or emails, is that voice inflection or sarcasm is not relayed too well and sometimes people take it the wrong way, even when what was being said was not an accusation or meant to be derogatory, some people just have knee jerk reactions, it's in their DNA.

Hopefully this incident is not going to stop you from helping others. I know if I had to cancel, I would have at least paid you for the tire, especially if it was not a common size that you can easily sell. Personally I think the guy was upset at the ways things were going and your email was the icing on the cake and he just took his frustration out on you.

Cheers

[RollinAgain]

I'm fairly certain that this person you are talking about documented his 3rd Gen rebuild in another thread and clearly stated in his thread that he was very concerned that his bike was not going to be finished in time to make the trip and he might have to cancel. I understand you are going out of your way to help others by providing your nearly free services and that is very noble of you but if you get stuck with tires due to no shows / cancellations that is clearly on you. Asking for a deposit or pre-payment is very reasonable and any logically minded person should understand this and have no problem doing it especially if they are odd sized tires. I have a tire changer too and have done dozens of free tire changes for both established friends and new acquaintances. I always have them pay for the tires ahead of tire or have them shipped directly to me and not once did anyone disagree or think this was unreasonable. I understand this slightly takes away from the "spirit of friendship" but if you assume the risks of not doing it this way then you can't come back after the fact and gripe about it especially if this has happened to you multiple times in the past as you've indicated above. Worst case scenario for the other party is that they have to pay a few extra bucks to have you ship their pre-paid tires back to them after cancelling.

Rollin

[expvet]

Hey, you are doing the right thing by helping people out and trying to keep a spirit of friendship alive in this world. There is nothing wrong though about stimulating that others do their part also, so asking someone to prepay or preship to you is not in any way diluting that spirit. I wish I had someone who would have made this gesture to me when I spent almost $100.00 to have 2 tires I recieved put on rims that I took off my 6th gen and took to the shop. $100.00 was actually cheap, normally shops here charge $75.00 a tire if you dismount the rims and $100.00 per if they dismount them. Hopefully that one ungrateful incident doesn't blot the countless Thanks you have received from people who can show appreciation for a helping hand.

[Guest]

I'm fairly certain that this person you are talking about is a guy named XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. He documented his 3rd Gen rebuild in another thread and clearly stated in his thread that he was very concerned that his bike was not going to be finished in time to make the trip and he might have to cancel.

Rollin

I didn't call anyone out. You did. I would appreciate you removing his name so no one pisses on his Corn Flakes.

Polite would be to give a head's up sooner than twelve hours before his arrival?

If the guy can't get his sh1t together, maybe a little advance notice. Courtesy?

If you're scheduled to show up for tires on Saturday and you e-mail me on Friday.

My only response would be that I was expecting the e-mail.

You didn't have the respect to contact me sooner.

Unlike others, I don't follow every thread on this forum closely. I have other things going on.

[MaxSwell]

Hey Mike. I think your actions are very noble and understandable. I had to cancel an order I made to you (deer crash) and you were very understanding.

And I believe I alerted you that I may need a front tire (standard front size for VFR). I'm not sure you said you'd order it just for me. When I brought my new '01 to T-Mac the tire was in too bad of shape to ride it anywhere. So I used a wheel and tire I brough along just-in-case. If you paid for a tire for me, I'd like to reimburse you. If so, hopefully you'd ship the tire to me, at my expense and I'd use it in the future.

I did not understand that you are not a business with tires on-hand. I'd like to correct any incorrect actions I've made because you are a nice guy and I could very well be buying tires services from you on future T-Macs.

So pm me and we can work out details.

Thanks for your offering your services; I do appreciate your effort.

Terry

[luvtoleanit]

He's out money, period, end of story.

I would never do this. If something came up and I had to cancel, I'd be mailing a check.

If you ask someone to do something for you, be prepared to pay or don't ask at all.

[Rice]

He's out money, period, end of story.

I would never do this. If something came up and I had to cancel, I'd be mailing a check.

If you ask someone to do something for you, be prepared to pay or don't ask at all.

I second this.

If I ask someone to buy something for me and then my plans change, this is my change, my problem and I should be paying for it. Not someone who was trying to do me a favor.

[carlgustav]

As another post mentioned, upon needing to cancel, I would pay you for tires/shipping & request the tires come to me ... glad to know there are folks like you out there ...

ACE

[Polarbear]

He's out money, period, end of story.

I would never do this. If something came up and I had to cancel, I'd be mailing a check.

If you ask someone to do something for you, be prepared to pay or don't ask at all.

Yes, I second this as well. In addition, when someone helps out, I usually end up tipping him to cover some of his time because, let's face it, I'm sure he has other things to do in life and if he takes some of HIS time to take care of ME, it's worth some money.

Sorry this happened to you, I hope that people take into consideration the value of your time--not only the price of the tires--and the trouble you go through before you decide to just stop doing it--then it might become clearer to them how valuable this work was to them...

Anyway, what goes around comes around, so I'm sure you will benefit from helping so many people out some day as you sad you hope.

Cheers man!

C

[KanadianKen]

I agree that getting stuck with tires you ordered for someone - trusting them to make good and then backing out - sucks and isn't cool.

I disagree with the O.P. in one statement that was made - and maybe Mike - you could clarify this:

"I was expecting this.
This is the same e-mail I get from 90% of the VFR guys."

I've met VFR owners from far and wide across Canada and the USA - and even Dutchy! I would have to say that your comment about 90% of VFR owners conducting themselves this way is what you found to be "your norm" is a bit off. Really? If that is the case - i stand corrected - but that number seems high. Just wondering.

Out of maybe 100 VFR owners I've had the pleasure to meet - I can honestly say that maybe 3-4 of them stand out as much different than the other 96 or 97 that I'd enjoy hanging out with on a regular basis. Those numbers make sense to me - but - you've dealt with a lot of folks that needed tires changed - so your results might be different.

Nonetheless, I hate hearing about shit like this - especially if it was a VFRD member. To hang someone out for $ due to your own situation changing is not right.

Mike - I've heard nothing but RAVE reviews from friends that have had tires supplied and installed by you. You and Wheeler seem to be the "Go To" people when in the Franklin/Deals Gap area for sure and its nice to know that good people are around when I'm in that location and out of my home "net". NExt time im in need of tires when im in your area i'll look you up and bring some Canadian Beer to say thanks!

[Switchblade]

He's out money, period, end of story.

I would never do this. If something came up and I had to cancel, I'd be mailing a check.

If you ask someone to do something for you, be prepared to pay or don't ask at all.

I second this.

If I ask someone to buy something for me and then my plans change, this is my change, my problem and I should be paying for it. Not someone who was trying to do me a favor.

+3 Be a man and pay up ..

[volleytron]

Wow, that's amazing. You tell someone that you'll be there and then let them know the day before you're not coming. That's just not right, he should have definitely offered to pay for the tires. Unfortunately that's the world we live in. Mike if I were you I would definitely be asking for a paypal payment on stuff like this.. I can't imagine anyone who was serious about coming to see you would be even moderately put off by it. Why would they if their intentions were honest. I feel your pain, I'm in the auto parts business and numerous times have ordered parts for people or shops on an "emergency" basis only to have them not show up or return the parts. I'm then out the freight which can be substantial on some items shipped overnight.

Don't let the few goofs out there get you down, there are alot of good people.

[Guest]

Guys I appreciate the support.

This thread was absolutely not about the tires or being out money.

I move so many tires out of my house that I am rarely stuck with a tire for long.

Sure a 170 is an odd size, but if he didn't get it, it was already aimed at Havagan.

This was more about the retaliation e-mail after I told him that I expected him not to show.

He has since apologized, I have no hard feelings towards him.

I would still volunteer to support him on a trip.

I was over it shortly after I made the original post.

I am not going to change my ways. I am going to continue to support riders as I always have.

I may be leery to purchase an odd tire for someone, but it is not usually the case.

Most riders want a common tire, I usually have those on the shelf.

If I don't have a particular tire which they want, most riders will take what I have because the price is soooooooooooo low.

You guys be safe and I am in Murphy to assist should you need it.

http://www.RideWNC.com

MikeE@RideWNC.com

Youtubes: RideWNC

[JZH]

Mike, it's somewhat unlikely that I will ever need a tire changed in your neck of the woods, but I'm glad you're helping people out like this.

Ciao,

[DucatiTerminator]

Mike, I don't think there would be anything wrong with asking someone to pay for the tires in advance. I provide a similar service/favor to riders all the time, but unfortunately, I don't have the resources to pay for their tires upfront in case something comes up, and they are unable to make it.

[The mailman]

I'm another one thinks maybe "I was expecting this.This is the same e-mail I get from 90% of the VFR guys." was a bit harsh but I absolutely understand your intent to help him out and then the ensuing frustration. Someone that is having that much work done to their bike pre-ride knows well in advance if they will make it or not. I also try to conduct my VFRD classified sales/purchases in the same spirit as you and your work. I have lost count of how many times I sold an item and just shipped it out the next day and waited for a check in good faith. The same goes for purchases in that I've sent the $$$ and waited for an item with nothing more than a guys word that he will ship an item to me. KNOCK ON WOOD - I have never been burned by a VFRD member and have always had excellent experiences with the members here. I would hope that 90% is an exaggeration but that guy should have been sending you a check for his new tires plus shipping to his location. .........plus a few bucks for the hassle.

Not outting him was also a stand-up move. Thanks for that as well.