Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 13, 2014 I'm going to divulge a bit of a secret I found a bit ago with regards to floats and needles. You will need, 1. a toothbrush 2. mother's or another metal polish 3. q tips 4. micro fibre towel Take your q tip, tip it in your polish, and use that polish to clean up each and every side of the needle. Polish it until it shines. Principle here is that the corrosion on the needle that on occasion hangs it up in the seat, is removed. Take a new q tip and polish it off and then wipe clean with micro fibre. Finally, clean off with carb cleaner to get any film left behind off. Do the same with the inside of the seat Take your tooth brush with a little bit of polish on it and scrub on to the floats. You will be amazed at what it does to the discoloration on the float. Again, wipe clean with the micro fibre. Wait for it to dry and take a different, clean toothbrush, and remove any dried polish from the cracks This may not be for everyone, but I've had very good success with it. Obviously, it will take a bit of practice. One final note; DON'T LEAVE ANY POLISH ON ANY PART I use to also take a small bowl of gas and sink the float in it by putting a heavy nut on it. Then check for gas inside the float . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 13, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 13, 2014 Careful with silicone.... It won't work well in carburettors when mixed with fuel and can lead to blocked fuel jets... Best to just assemble. I sorta figured that it's not the best of ideas. What I did, was put a bead of gasket maker (still silicone, but hopefully not as prone to gas) in the grooves under the gaskets. The thinking is that once tightened down, gaskets will stick out a bit more and will seal. I also pressed the gaskets in and removed access from the inside. Still no guarantee that I won't h ave a problem, but I can deal with potential problems later. For now, I just want to see it run. You cannot judge the condition of floats by sight. They get saturated and become heavy, and allow the float bowl level to get too high. Your bike is possibly one of the lucky ones, but 90% of the old bikes I have worked on needed floats and needles. Taking my chances here. Floats are plastic. What can possibly go wrong I'm going to divulge a bit of a secret I found a bit ago with regards to floats and needles. You will need, 1. a toothbrush 2. mother's or another metal polish 3. q tips 4. micro fibre towel Take your q tip, tip it in your polish, and use that polish to clean up each and every side of the needle. Polish it until it shines. Principle here is that the corrosion on the needle that on occasion hangs it up in the seat, is removed. Take a new q tip and polish it off and then wipe clean with micro fibre. Finally, clean off with carb cleaner to get any film left behind off. Do the same with the inside of the seat Take your tooth brush with a little bit of polish on it and scrub on to the floats. You will be amazed at what it does to the discoloration on the float. Again, wipe clean with the micro fibre. Wait for it to dry and take a different, clean toothbrush, and remove any dried polish from the cracks This may not be for everyone, but I've had very good success with it. Obviously, it will take a bit of practice. One final note; DON'T LEAVE ANY POLISH ON ANY PART Great tips here. Thanks! I have already closed things up, but I'm sure it's not the first time I'll be doing carbs. I checked all the needles and their sides are smooth. Made of aluminum. They appear to slide pretty easily. Fingers crossed. Update. So, after soaking overnight, I checked all the orifices to make sure that all were open and one was completely blocked. Some wire poking took care of that. I sprayed, washed and blew everything out clean and installed the carbs back on the bike. This is the stuff that was left in the bath: And this is the video of the "finished" product. W/O the pipe: How does one post a video???? Now, to rebuild the front calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer TheJay Posted June 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 13, 2014 Nice! Good job Rice. Sounds great. Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 14, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 14, 2014 A small update. Front calipers disassembled and cleaned in and out. Brake pads are like new with plenty of meat left. All went back on and blead. One minor issue is that the front wheel which spun easily with calipers off now encounters more resistance than I expect from freshly rebuilt brakes. I'm thinking that I might have stuffed too much grease into the slide pin openings. Hopefully it will work itself out. I am planning the first ride around the block today :). Nex on the list are starter slippage and the RR. Does oil come out if I remove the starter? Also I have a bunch of parts from my previously failed honda VLX600 project. I am hoping to reuse its RR but it has 7 wires. The VFR RR has 5. If anyone knows how to adopt 7 to 5 please let me know. On the not so good side, I've just noticed that the title states " rebuilt salvage". I still would have bought it, but just a minor bummer. I don't see any major damage. The tank and plastics probably did this bike in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 14, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 14, 2014 Went out for the first ride. But, of course, I simply cannot do anything without drama... Ran down the battery trying to start the bike. It started at first pretty easily, but then just died after running for 15-20 seconds. WTF? All was well yesterday. The pictures of gasket maker dissolved away by gas and now hardening in all passages are going through my mind. Finally, it dawned on me to check if I have closed the petcock yesterday. Yep. Of course I did. Petcock open, battery recharged, the bike started and almost warmed up - that's another story. I think it needs a thermostat. I took it out for the first time and the engine behaved beautifully. Power is smooth and plentiful. No apparent fueling issues or snatchiness. The suspenders OTOH, are utter disaster. Forks act like there is no damping what so ever - wouldn't be surprised if there is no oil inside. Rear does have damping, but just not anywhere close to the current setup of my 6th gen. This brings me to another question. Is there an easy (no lathe or CNC involved) conversion to a more robust front end? R1/GSXR/CBR, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Go to all balls web site and click on fork conversion. It will show all compatible front ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 No linked brakes, so almost any modern Honda front end is a direct swap. Steering stops can be changed with hand tools. Wheel style and clip on height may need consideration, but not too difficult to overcome. A friend of mine has a set of right side up 04 CBR600RR forks and triples that will bolt in, I can ask what he wants for them if you're interested. I know they are for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 15, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 15, 2014 Go to all balls web site and click on fork conversion. It will show all compatible front ends. Wow! That list sure is long. I think that they may be listing bearings interchangeability only. Good resource all the same. Appreciate the info. No linked brakes, so almost any modern Honda front end is a direct swap. Steering stops can be changed with hand tools. Wheel style and clip on height may need consideration, but not too difficult to overcome. A friend of mine has a set of right side up 04 CBR600RR forks and triples that will bolt in, I can ask what he wants for them if you're interested. I know they are for sale. I am thinking more along the lines of 04-06 R1 with 954/929 triples. not cheap on ebay,but i got time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrwt644 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 sorry, have to poke fun....I had the same issue with my 3rd gen just last week when I went to start her..tried for five mins, then thought, 'is the petcock on?'...nope, sure wasn't. Ah, if it was all that simple huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted June 15, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 15, 2014 Wow Rice...this is a cool read for those of us that marvel at you mechanical types ability to resurrect an old, neglected bike. Must be a great feeling when she fires up and purrs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Apparently an RC51 front end fits straight on, which would mean a CBR1000RR front would fit too, I believe. I have an RC51 SP1 triple set & SP2 front end (from RC51) waiting to go onto mine. Will use riser bars, etc. Hoping to find the time to do the conversion in July.... Will cost more than $500 for a decent front end though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I have a set of 929/954 triples with fresh black paint and new tapered bearing installed. Was for a project, got a billet lower instead. They ate for sale, pm me if interested. Austin just passed on them today. Also, I can make the spacers you'll need to fit the r1 wheel and rotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 16, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 Wow Rice...this is a cool read for those of us that marvel at you mechanical types ability to resurrect an old, neglected bike. Must be a great feeling when she fires up and purrs... Thanks. But please don't confuse me with a mechanical type. I'm just poking around with the help of the folks who actually know this stuff and are willing to provide advice :) I have a set of 929/954 triples with fresh black paint and new tapered bearing installed. Was for a project, got a billet lower instead. They ate for sale, pm me if interested. Austin just passed on them today. Also, I can make the spacers you'll need to fit the r1 wheel and rotors. Cool. Hold on to them. I'd like to see if I can score R1 forks and other bits first, since these are more expensive. Another update. The good. Installed the RR I had lying around from VLX600. It charges the battery and gets pretty hot. Not sure if it's made to handle VFR output, but if it burns out, I'll buy the proper RR. The not-so-good. The engine smokes. It's not the white water vapor, but the grey/brown gas (or oil?) smoke. I first was hoping that it would burn off, but it is persistent. Possible causes that I am aware of are stuck rings, scored cylinder walls and valve seals. None of these possibilities make me jump for joy. One other thing that has been mentioned online is proper adjustment of the choke cable. If the choke isn't closed all the way, you'll run rich and get smoke. I have adjusted choke and tried again. The smoke is gone or almost gone. I will have to monitor this situation. While I was playing with choke and smoke, I measured the temp. of the front header pipes. Left one gets really hot, 500F+, while the other is barely half of that. Another discovery made on the rear bank - If I pull out the left rear spark boot, the bike dies. If I do the same to the right rear, the bike keeps running as if nothing happened. I know it's not the coil, since I can hear spark jumping. All of the above leads me to hypothesize that the bike is running on two left cylinders only. This in itself is interesting, considering how relatively smooth it idles and revs. Further investigation to follow. This time I'll actually dig in deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrwt644 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 How long did she sit vs how much time has she run in the past x months? I wouldn't fret about the smoking just yet. How many miles on her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 16, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 How long did she sit vs how much time has she run in the past x months? I wouldn't fret about the smoking just yet. How many miles on her? She seat for at least a year and maybe more. No idea really, but not too much longer judging by the state of the gas tank innards. 32K on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer SamW Posted June 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2014 Sounds like carb issues, if you have spark and no change when you pull the plug, then either low compression or no/little fuel (or too much fuel). Watch the engine temp and run about 3-4k rpms then pull the plugs and check the color. Wet/black plug is too much fuel or possible weak spark, white plug is too little fuel, cream/tan is just right. Have you tried to sync the carbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2014 Give it a chance to clear and kept eye on the oil level, you did change oil ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Rather than looking for guesses, you need to first do a compression test (Better still a leak-down test), then if the engine is OK test for spark, then if there's ignition, take the carbs off again, -reclean and refit, test again and know where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dalesvfr Posted June 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2014 Seafoam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 18, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2014 Sounds like carb issues, if you have spark and no change when you pull the plug, then either low compression or no/little fuel (or too much fuel). Watch the engine temp and run about 3-4k rpms then pull the plugs and check the color. Wet/black plug is too much fuel or possible weak spark, white plug is too little fuel, cream/tan is just right. Have you tried to sync the carbs? Carb sync is on the list once(if) I get it to run on all cylinders. Is it the same tool/procedure as syncing the throttle bodies? Give it a chance to clear and kept eye on the oil level, you did change oil ? I most certainly did not! But in my defense, the oil looked like it was changed yesterday. And so did the coolant. Rather than looking for guesses, you need to first do a compression test (Better still a leak-down test), then if the engine is OK test for spark, then if there's ignition, take the carbs off again, -reclean and refit, test again and know where the problem lies. I don't like you. But I'm afraid you're right. BTW, what's the difference between Leak-down and compression testing? I know compression is supposed to test whether there is enough.. compression. But why leak-down? Seafoam. YOU, I like Wouldn't it be nice if it was all that's needed. So, where do I put it? In the gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 BTW, what's the difference between Leak-down and compression testing? I know compression is supposed to test whether there is enough.. compression. But why leak-down? To do a leak-down, you have to put compressed air in the cylinders. It tells you the amount of leakage the cylinder has which can be past the rings, the intake or exhaust valve, or a head gasket. It just gives you more specifics about where the problem is in the cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 18, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2014 Compression test: Front Left: 150 Rear Left: 150 Front Right: 110 Rear Right: 120 All seem to hold pressure for several minutes w/o drop. Didn't hold to see for how long they would hold. Right bank is the one not working all too well. Is 110/120 really bad enough to cause no fire? Also, what can I try to do w/o taking the engine apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dalesvfr Posted June 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2014 Seafoam goes in gas. I've used in small engines and my bikes for the last few years because of ethanol. Had a pressure washer that sat with old gas for about three years. No hope of starting. Before I pulled the carb off I put a 1/4 can of Seafoam in it and let it sit for a couple of days and the engine started. A bit of smoke at first but it cleared up. You can put Marvel Mystery Oil in gas as well, helps keep top end lubed and rings free. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people think additives are smoke and mirrors, all I know is my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer SamW Posted June 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2014 110/120 should be enough to run, if you had the other two running, maybe that has the compression up in them. How did the plugs look when you pulled them out? Not sure about throttle body sync, but I would think it is the same, just a matter of having the vacuum level the same across all cylinders. I don't think being out of sync would keep it from running, but it would make for a bad idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted June 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2014 Compression test: Front Left: 150 Rear Left: 150 Front Right: 110 Rear Right: 120 All seem to hold pressure for several minutes w/o drop. Didn't hold to see for how long they would hold. Right bank is the one not working all too well. Is 110/120 really bad enough to cause no fire? Also, what can I try to do w/o taking the engine apart? You'll have to check the manual, but I think pressure should be 150-200. So 110 is very much on the low end. I remember another little quibit about having to have the throttle wide open to get correct results. When you do a compression test, the gauge does not release the pressure created on the compression stroke, so you will not see the pressure drop. That is in a leak down tester. As WERA said, a leak down will tell you if you are leaking around the valves, pistons, or head gasket. What can you do about low pressure without touching the engine? Not sure. I've heard one person prescribe AutoRX to loosen piston rings, which might cause issues. Maybe doing a valve check/adjustment would help. Nothing is a guarantee. You can get the throttle bodies close enough on the bench. Use a pin or a shim to make sure they are open the same amount. You can use the idle screw to move them all in and out as needed to get your pin or shim to fit. This won't be a perfect sync, just get's them to where they aren't completely out of whack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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