Member Contributer Dutchy Posted January 4, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 4, 2009 My 11 years old headers have developped a "spotted dick" appearance over the years (disclaimer: it IS a british desert.. :blush: ). So when I came across a used set that looked a whole lot better, I bought it Questions: what steps do I take to prep for painting? what do I paint it with? black BBQ paint? Spray can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Anything you use is not going to last forever, so go cheap is my vote. I'm adding catless headers soon and I can't say I will bother painting them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer Madness Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Tsk, Tsk, Dutchy..... :fing02: I would've sold you my 4th gen. set for less. :blush: Get them lightly blasted, (and I don't mean like you ).... If you like to 'rattle your can' look for something like this: (In the fastest colour, of course!) :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Just the topic I was looking for. I'm in the process of fine tuning my '98 headers I've installed on my 6th Gen. Here are my results so far: I painted the rear cylinder down pipes with DEI high temp paint. They look great except the least little touch will leave a mark on the paint - not scratch down to the metal, just leaves a mark on the paint. They have a nice satin black finish to them. Of course they do say on the can that it takes 400° F minimum to cure the paint, so the heating of the pipes I did with a heat gun probably wasn't sufficient. I'm hoping they will cure once I finish the project and fire the bike up. I'm going to paint the front header section with PJ1 High Temp paint. I've had excellent results with PJ1 paint. It seems like the more it ages, the stronger it gets. Surface prep: Sand the pipes down with 320 wet or dry sandpaper. Use a wire brush on areas you can't get to with sandpaper. Get every spec of rust off that you can. Put on some latex gloves and wash the pipes with a paint prep solution such as "Final Wash" or something similar. You're wearing the gloves so you don't leave you on skin oil on the pipes. You want the surface of the pipes antiseptic before you start painting. Remember that several light coats (3+) are better than one heavy coat. Give the pipes sufficient time to dry before handling them. And when I say sufficient, I'm talking 3 or 4 days, not a few hours like they say on the can. Heat the paint prior to painting by putting the cans on the floor of your auto/pick up truck with the heat set to blow on your feet. Let the paint warm up for about half an hour. It will give a much better finish than cold paint. I don't recommend the Jet Coat treatment for a couple of reasons: 1. I've seen some really crappy jobs. 2. If you look down inside a set of '98/'99 headers or use one of the remote video camera things you get at Home Depot, you will find there are sections of "muffler" down inside the front header. It's not just all stamped steel. There are sections with perforated baffling sections running parallel to the exhaust flow. That's what those bulges on the front header section are. I'm not sure what effect Jet Coating will have on this internal baffling/muffler sections. Seb's right - nothing's going to last forever when it comes to header paint. But if you do a good job, you can make touching up the pipes a yearly winter maintenance project or possibly every other year. Scuff up the nasty looking areas with a Scotch brite pad, wash it with Final Wash, and touch it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 My 11 years old headers have developped a "spotted dick" appearance over the years (disclaimer: it IS a british desert.. :blush: ). So when I came across a used set that looked a whole lot better, I bought it Questions: what steps do I take to prep for painting? what do I paint it with? black BBQ paint? Spray can? DUTCHY DOES NOT LIE! Hate to imagine how it tastes....and looks.... Beck 95 VFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 DUTCHY DOES NOT LIE! Hate to imagine how it tastes....and looks.... Beck 95 VFR Well, he didn't lie THIS time.... Lord have mercy... spotted dick!! What else have they in store for unsuspecting foreigners?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 LMAO!!! I cannot believe they make that crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Knife Posted January 5, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2009 I believe that's exactly how Michael Jackson's accuser described him to the prosecutor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FotoMoto Posted January 5, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2009 Get a set of stainless steel headers (two brothers, motad, etc). :angry: I tried painting a set with the highest temp paint I could find the correct way as stated above; tons of prep with meticulous attention to detail, using wire hanger jigs so as to never touch the metal after prepping, light coats, multiple warm ups on the bike, etc. It still flaked; especially at bends. If I have to do it again, I'll get them professionally coated but stainless is the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Get a set of stainless steel headers (two brothers, motad, etc). :angry: I tried painting a set with the highest temp paint I could find the correct way as stated above; tons of prep with meticulous attention to detail, using wire hanger jigs so as to never touch the metal after prepping, light coats, multiple warm ups on the bike, etc. It still flaked; especially at bends. If I have to do it again, I'll get them professionally coated but stainless is the best! Stainless is indeed the best (example Staintunes). Unfortunately, the '98/'99 headers were manufactured before the government required that exhaust systems be able to last for the life of the vehicle and are therefore mild steel. That is why the 6th Gen's have stainless steel systems - it's basically to comply with an EPA requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 You have a spray gun? If so you can buy some pretty good water based ceramic reinforced header coatings that do a good job if applied right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted January 5, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2009 Get a set of stainless steel headers (two brothers, motad, etc). :angry: I tried painting a set with the highest temp paint I could find the correct way as stated above; tons of prep with meticulous attention to detail, using wire hanger jigs so as to never touch the metal after prepping, light coats, multiple warm ups on the bike, etc. It still flaked; especially at bends. If I have to do it again, I'll get them professionally coated but stainless is the best! I looked into a s/s set of Motad, but that would be around Euro 450 make that ~$630... My oem's are -11 years on- still ok technically, just look like shit spotted dick. :angry: I bought the -almost rust free- set (a little on the welds) for a fraction so I can make my bike look nicer. I will enquire what ceramic coating costs here in the NL, but I think painting will be the most viable option financially.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 You have a spray gun? If so you can buy some pretty good water based ceramic reinforced header coatings that do a good job if applied right. I did a web search on that stuff. $139.95/gallon - wow! Unfortunately, a gallon is the smallest quantity they sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Dutchy, give these guys a call for ceramic coating => Speedline Another good option is Renoblast who do heat resistant powdercoating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 You have a spray gun? If so you can buy some pretty good water based ceramic reinforced header coatings that do a good job if applied right. I did a web search on that stuff. $139.95/gallon - wow! Unfortunately, a gallon is the smallest quantity they sell. Being that he is from the Netherlands I don't know what he can get there, but you can get it in the states for much less than that and in far smaller quantities than a gallon, I have picked it up in as small amounts as 8oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 You have a spray gun? If so you can buy some pretty good water based ceramic reinforced header coatings that do a good job if applied right. I did a web search on that stuff. $139.95/gallon - wow! Unfortunately, a gallon is the smallest quantity they sell. Being that he is from the Netherlands I don't know what he can get there, but you can get it in the states for much less than that and in far smaller quantities than a gallon, I have picked it up in as small amounts as 8oz. Where? I went to the Hy-Tech Thermal Solutions website and a gallon was the smallest quantity they sell it in. BFI - what brand or source are you talking about specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 You have a spray gun? If so you can buy some pretty good water based ceramic reinforced header coatings that do a good job if applied right. I did a web search on that stuff. $139.95/gallon - wow! Unfortunately, a gallon is the smallest quantity they sell. Being that he is from the Netherlands I don't know what he can get there, but you can get it in the states for much less than that and in far smaller quantities than a gallon, I have picked it up in as small amounts as 8oz. Where? I went to the Hy-Tech Thermal Solutions website and a gallon was the smallest quantity they sell it in. BFI - what brand or source are you talking about specifically? The brand is Techline Coatings. Checked the site and its sold as small as 4oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted January 5, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2009 Just the topic I was looking for.I'm in the process of fine tuning my '98 headers I've installed on my 6th Gen. Here are my results so far: I painted the rear cylinder down pipes with DEI high temp paint. They look great except the least little touch will leave a mark on the paint - not scratch down to the metal, just leaves a mark on the paint. They have a nice satin black finish to them. Of course they do say on the can that it takes 400° F minimum to cure the paint, so the heating of the pipes I did with a heat gun probably wasn't sufficient. I'm hoping they will cure once I finish the project and fire the bike up. I'm going to paint the front header section with PJ1 High Temp paint. I've had excellent results with PJ1 paint. It seems like the more it ages, the stronger it gets. Surface prep: Sand the pipes down with 320 wet or dry sandpaper. Use a wire brush on areas you can't get to with sandpaper. Get every spec of rust off that you can. Put on some latex gloves and wash the pipes with a paint prep solution such as "Final Wash" or something similar. You're wearing the gloves so you don't leave you on skin oil on the pipes. You want the surface of the pipes antiseptic before you start painting. Remember that several light coats (3+) are better than one heavy coat. Give the pipes sufficient time to dry before handling them. And when I say sufficient, I'm talking 3 or 4 days, not a few hours like they say on the can. Heat the paint prior to painting by putting the cans on the floor of your auto/pick up truck with the heat set to blow on your feet. Let the paint warm up for about half an hour. It will give a much better finish than cold paint. I don't recommend the Jet Coat treatment for a couple of reasons: 1. I've seen some really crappy jobs. 2. If you look down inside a set of '98/'99 headers or use one of the remote video camera things you get at Home Depot, you will find there are sections of "muffler" down inside the front header. It's not just all stamped steel. There are sections with perforated baffling sections running parallel to the exhaust flow. That's what those bulges on the front header section are. I'm not sure what effect Jet Coating will have on this internal baffling/muffler sections. Seb's right - nothing's going to last forever when it comes to header paint. But if you do a good job, you can make touching up the pipes a yearly winter maintenance project or possibly every other year. Scuff up the nasty looking areas with a Scotch brite pad, wash it with Final Wash, and touch it up. I used the DEI stuff on mine and didnt have a way to "cure" it either. So an on the bike cure was all I had. Be ready to cycle the engine on and off a quite a few times. I rode around the block, then killed it for a cool down, then again, and again. The paint smokes like crazy and smells like spotted dick. :biggrin: MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Interesting thread (well.. to me, at least). The 2000 and 2001 are apparently a low grade of stainless steel, so while they're not as Spotted Dicky as Dutchy's headers, they're still a bit rusty in appearance. Sometime I'd like to tart them up a bit. I painted my VTR's headers with some heatproof black paint "containing ceramic" and "as used on the Space Shuttle". It flaked off (and continued to flake off) the first time I rode the bike, despite my care with preparation and application, so I'm rather wary about wasting time and money if it's just going to end up looking like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Interesting thread (well.. to me, at least).The 2000 and 2001 are apparently a low grade of stainless steel, so while they're not as Spotted Dicky as Dutchy's headers, they're still a bit rusty in appearance. Sometime I'd like to tart them up a bit. I painted my VTR's headers with some heatproof black paint "containing ceramic" and "as used on the Space Shuttle". It flaked off (and continued to flake off) the first time I rode the bike, despite my care with preparation and application, so I'm rather wary about wasting time and money if it's just going to end up looking like crap. Anything that says "as used on the Space Shuttle" I would stay away from lol. The parts should also be fully precleaned and then sand blasted (100-120 grit) and then cleaned again before coating, parts should not be handled by hand, as you will transfer oil to the parts, they should also be painted within a 4 hour window after blasting, shorter depending on weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I painted my VTR's headers with some heatproof black paint "containing ceramic" and "as used on the Space Shuttle". It flaked off (and continued to flake off) the first time I rode the bike. The parts should also be fully precleaned and then sand blasted (100-120 grit) and then cleaned again before coating, parts should not be handled by hand, as you will transfer oil to the parts, they should also be painted within a 4 hour window after blasting, shorter depending on weather. While I did not sandblast them, I did spend more time on preparation than I've ever spent on anything before. I'd previously painted my VF500's headers and collector with some black paint labeled as "expansion chamber paint", and the only prep was basically a bit of a cleanup. It lasted very well. This, on the other hand, was almost useless, and basically disintegrated. Despite being a not uncommon brand (unlike the "expansion chamber paint") and being labeled as a "high temperature" coating, it seemed to have no temperature resistance at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Is there a commercially available oven interior paint (ovens get extremely hot when you put them on self cleaning mode) out there, or what ever they use on barbecues grill bodies like the Weber kettles? I think that paint is totally different from all the rattle can VHT paint products that we've been using. If any finish would last, that would be it. I'm just wondering what is the prep work for paint like that which looks and feels like porcelain. Maybe if anyone here works for Weber or Amana, he can sneak a few pipes in the line for us once in a while :rolleyes: Beck 95 VFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hardt21 Posted January 6, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 6, 2009 I have heard really good things about POR-15. Check this out POR-15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 While I did not sandblast them, I did spend more time on preparation than I've ever spent on anything before. I'd previously painted my VF500's headers and collector with some black paint labeled as "expansion chamber paint", and the only prep was basically a bit of a cleanup. It lasted very well. This, on the other hand, was almost useless, and basically disintegrated. Despite being a not uncommon brand (unlike the "expansion chamber paint") and being labeled as a "high temperature" coating, it seemed to have no temperature resistance at all. See, you are comparing a heat resistant paint to a thermal barrier coating. The paint is going to have a stronger binder and hold onto poorly prepped surfaces better than something like a "true" metallic ceramic coating which contain little else because of it burning off. Is there a commercially available oven interior paint (ovens get extremely hot when you put them on self cleaning mode) out there, or what ever they use on barbecues grill bodies like the Weber kettles? I think that paint is totally different from all the rattle can VHT paint products that we've been using. If any finish would last, that would be it. I'm just wondering what is the prep work for paint like that which looks and feels like porcelain.Maybe if anyone here works for Weber or Amana, he can sneak a few pipes in the line for us once in a while :rolleyes: Beck 95 VFR It looks and feels like Porcelain because it is, as Porcelain is indeed a ceramic, but often has a better "look" because of the formation of glass from the extremely high temps in the baking process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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