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The Official Oil Thread


What Kind Of Oil Do You Use?  

1223 members have voted

  1. 1. Oil Type?

    • Synthetic
      825
    • Dino/Organic
      232
    • Blend
      168
  2. 2. Motorcycle or Generic oil?

    • Motorcycle Specific
      720
    • Major Brands
      457
    • Generic Automotive
      81
  3. 3. Which Brand?

    • Honda Branded
      185
    • Mobile One
      322
    • AMSOil
      109
    • Castrol
      109
    • Penzoil
      11
    • Lucus
      2
    • Havoline
      1
    • Quaker State
      4
    • Motul
      103
    • Valvoline
      33
    • Golden Spectro
      16
    • Rotella
      205
    • Other
      125


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Honda knows their sh*t... thin is in thick is out... If we analyze the actual numbers between 30 and 40 weight at operating temp of 212F we note the difference in viscosity is only 2.6 Cts... thats

That is really kind of my point related to 3k oil changes in general. A huge waste of money and an Excellant Marketing Champaign by the oil Co's. Let's just focus on the Honda VFR here. Honda Engineer

I use Mobil one 15w-50 fully synthetic (not motorcycle specific) in the VFR. I use Mobil One Racing 4T, 10w-40 fully synthetic in the CBR since it sees more high rpm use. Motorcycle Oil

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I use Mobil one 15w-50 fully synthetic (not motorcycle specific) in the VFR. I use Mobil One Racing 4T, 10w-40 fully synthetic in the CBR since it sees more high rpm use.

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Motorcycle Oil

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I use Amsoil MC specific in the viscosity called for in the owner's manual. I have zero oil brand loyalty. The only reason I use Amsoil is because it is the cheapest full synthetic MC specific oil I can find where I live and I can have it delivered right to my door by the case. And, no, I don't like their marketing methods. :unsure:

Who has ever heard of an engine failure caused only by using the type of oil specified in the owner's manual that was changed at prescribed intervals or sooner using an OEM filter? I've NEVER heard of this happening on a street application.

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I'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch to

Shell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.

My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:

I always advise caution when a customer ask about Shell's Rotella T... since diesels engines live

at the slow end of the rpm scale I'm not sure that the additive package is suited for rigors of an

high revving motorcycle engine... I'm speaking of the anti foaming additives that are important to

us due to the high RPMs that can cause cavitation which will starve bearings from necessary

lubrication... In order to hold cost to a minimum Shell's chemical engineer only adds what is

necessary and anti foaming additives are not important in a slow turning diesel...

Agreed, but these "C" category oils have extremely high anti sheer characteristics that should work well in our gear boxes, No?

:unsure:

"Three synthetics stand out from the rest: Mobil Delvac 1, Mobil-1 SUV and Shell Rotella T Synthetic. These are C certified industrial oils meant to be purchased in 55 gallon drums and used by companies which run a lot of diesel engines. The Commercial oils, as discussed above, have more expensive additive packages which are meant to prolong engine life and oil life, as opposed to being cheap to buy at Pep Boys and helping the car companies meet their CAFE requirements. These oils meet all the automobile requirements through SJ, and also have extra additives to help pick up gunk in the engine, to keep the oil from becoming acidic, and to maintain the oil's viscosity over a long time. In fact, the manufacturers talk about their oil's viscosity resistance to shear forces - exactly what a motorcycle needs."

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Guest VFR_ATL
he feared for his job, so he asked me to delete his account and all his posts.

There go the Facts, too bad indeed. I'll continue to follow his recommendations: Science over Myth.

Regards,

VFR_ATL

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Agreed, but these "C" category oils have extremely high anti sheer characteristics that should work well in or gear boxes, No?

True but even if the polymers shear they still work to thicken the oil...

Polymers are exposed to two major degradation processes in the engine:

mechanical or shear degradation and thermo oxidative degradation. All

polymer-thickened oils experience a loss of viscosity at shear rates

corresponding to those existing in engine bearings. As the coiled

molecule enters a zone of high velocity gradients, it deforms. This

lengthening of the molecule allows more base oil to flow past and

the oil under high gradient shear loads experiences a viscosity loss.

Upon passing through the velocity gradient, the molecule regains

its former coiled state and the viscosity of the oil recovers. All

other things being equal, the higher the molecular weight of the

polymer molecule, the more temporary shear loss will occur.

Complete alignment of the molecule in the shear zone cannot occur

because of the counteracting entropic forces that act to retain the

coiled shape; i.e., the molecule tends toward disorder. Under severe

operating conditions such as often exist at the entrance to gear

teeth, it is possible the shearing forces acting on the molecules may

exceed the bond energy of the main chain. If the molecule is unable to

deform, the chain tears apart. This shortens the average size of the

polymer molecules and results in a permanent lowering of oil

viscosity. High molecular weight molecules (long molecules) and

molecules with weak chains have the greatest amount of tearing.

The degree of viscosity loss depends on the type of VI polymer

molecule used. Some molecules such as the polyalkylmethacrylates have

strong chains. The olefin copolymers have weaker chains but the broken

chains react with the oil and have a thickening effect. Some polymer

molecules are highly branched or incorporate dispersant side chains

which effect the polymer's ability to tolerate shear forces. The

additive engineer must therefore select a polymer type and molecular

weight that fulfills the intended purpose. Modern VI-improved oils are

adequately shear stable for aircraft engines. Straight-weight oils do

not suffer temporary viscosity loss with shear as multi-grade oils do

The viscosity of multi-grade oil in the engine will not exactly

correspond to the viscosity of the oil in the can. A lOW50 oil does

not have the same viscosity as a 50 weight oil under engine (shear)

conditions. At the oil pump, yes, but at the journal bearings where

shear forces are five or six orders of magnitude higher, the oil will

have the viscosity of a 40 weight oil. This might be more noticeable

during cold cranking where a lOW-50 multigrade may cold crank better

than a lOW oil due to temporary shear viscosity loss. Oil viscosity

does not accurately predict cold pumpability.

Thermal oxidation degradation of the polymer molecule is much more a

problem than shear degradation. During shear degradation the longer

molecules are sheared so the average molecular weight of the molecules

becomes more homogeneous. Oil viscosity loss stabilizes at this point.

With thermo-oxidative processes there is no limiting molecular weight.

The degradation process continues until the polymer is completely

destroyed. This process has a thinning effect on the oil. At the same

time, the thermo-oxidation of the oil results in a viscosity increase

of the base oil. Regular oil changes, especially under severe

thermo-oxidation conditions (turbocharging) is important.

Any decrease in oil viscosity increases wear rates and oil

consumption. If you are changing your oil at 50 hours and you notice

that your oil consumption is less during the first 25 hours than the

second 25 hours, you know that this oil is only viscosity-stable for

25 hours. You might consider shortening your oil change interval or

switch to a different brand of oil.

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I printed off Scootrs test info. It was an eye opener for me. The only thing that wasn't really discussed was "when do you need the higher level of protection"? For the average rider, you can use any oil, change it regularly, and run your bike 100,000 miles, disassemble it, and not find much wear. If we're going to have the oil poll, lets not forget the filters, too. :P

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Agreed, but these "C" category oils have extremely high anti sheer characteristics that should work well in or gear boxes, No?

True but even if the polymers shear they still work to thicken the oil...

Polymers are exposed to two major degradation processes in the engine:...............................

That's a lot of BS Larry, do you have an English version of what all that crap was trying to say? :blink:

What's it saying in your words? :unsure:

Thanks

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Mobil 1 Gold Cap with a Purolator Pure One filter every 3,000 miles (or so).

Never had a problem.

I miss ScootR sad.gif

He had a really cool bike :thumbsup:

ScootR, if you're out there, please come back!

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I'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch to

Shell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.

My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:

I always advise caution when a customer ask about Shell's Rotella T... since diesels engines live

at the slow end of the rpm scale I'm not sure that the additive package is suited for rigors of an

high revving motorcycle engine... I'm speaking of the anti foaming additives that are important to

us due to the high RPMs that can cause cavitation which will starve bearings from necessary

lubrication... In order to hold cost to a minimum Shell's chemical engineer only adds what is

necessary and anti foaming additives are not important in a slow turning diesel...

Well the Shell Rotella T syn. exceeds all API requirements asked for by Honda(SF/SG) and meets every level except the newest SM standards. It also has the highest API C ratings(diesel) with a CI-4 Plus rating. I could be wrong, but I can't see where this oil is lacking anywhere except in additive pkgs that prolongs CAT life.

I'm learning! :thumbsup:

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Mobil 1 Gold Cap with a Purolator Pure One filter every 3,000 miles (or so).

Never had a problem.

I miss ScootR sad.gif

He had a really cool bike :thumbsup:

ScootR, if you're out there, please come back!

Great choices, but I think your wasting money changing out MB1 every 3k. The whole idea of a quality Syn. oil like MB1 is that it provides superior protection for much longer change intervals. :thumbsup: It you can run that crap Honda oil for 3k you can surely run MB1 for 6-8 or even 10k before it even begin to break down significantly.

The only real way to know is to have it tested though. :unsure:

The Pure One filter is one of the best too, see below:

Recommended filters. All Fit our VFR's

All have superior

filtering.

About 2.5 inches long.

* Purolator Pure One PL14612, about $6.

* Mobil M1-108, about $12.

Made by Champion.

* Bosch 3300, about $6.

Made by Champion.

About 3.25 inches long.

* Purolator Pure One PL14610, about $6.

* Mobil 1 M1-110, about $10.

Made by Champion.

* Bosch 3323, about $6.

Made By Champion.

* WalMart SuperTech ST7317,

about $2. Made by Champion.

Buy these filters

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Something like a Mobil 1 motorcycle oil is about the only thing I'd run near 3k+. Mostly I do around 1,500 /2000 miles on the diesils, I can change the diesils 3 to 4 times for the cost, and the engine stays flushed out better.

The problem is more the level of metal that builds up in time in your oil, it scrubs on everything, including clutch plates.

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I'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch to

Shell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.

My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:

I always advise caution when a customer ask about Shell's Rotella T... since diesels engines live

at the slow end of the rpm scale I'm not sure that the additive package is suited for rigors of an

high revving motorcycle engine... I'm speaking of the anti foaming additives that are important to

us due to the high RPMs that can cause cavitation which will starve bearings from necessary

lubrication... In order to hold cost to a minimum Shell's chemical engineer only adds what is

necessary and anti foaming additives are not important in a slow turning diesel...

Well the Shell Rotella T syn. also exceeds all API "S"requirements asked for by Honda(SF/SG) and meets every level except the newest SM standards and also has the highest API C ratings with a CI-4 Plus rating. I could be wrong, but I can't see where this oil is lacking anywhere except in additive pkgs that prolongs CAT life.

I'm learning! :thumbsup:

One of the ironies in Larry's argument is that ScootR's impressive research was based entirely on diesel engines. I never was quite sure what to make of it in a world where engines that spin 5 times as fast.

Personally, I've run several oils in the VFR and my 4 wheeled fleet and have always come home to RTS. In the bike I've run both grades of M1 bike oil, M1 red cap, M1 gold cap, Delvac 1, M1 Truck and SUV, and GN4 (for the first 50 miles) and based on engine temps, shifting smoothness (over time), engine/trans noise, and engine hygene RTS has seemed to be the best package. I've seen a few UOAs out of other bikes (no VFRs and I've not done one myself but probably should) that suggest it may not be wise to run it much beyond 4k miles in a bike, but I tend to change at 3,500 to 4,000 anyway so no biggie.

The cage story is similar. My wife's Maxima seems to love the stuff. At 70k miles I took a shot at using that trick German Castrol stuff. I was adding about a half quart per 3.5k OCI. Went back to RTS. Zero consumption over a 4k to 4.5k OCI and it seems to run a bit quieter.

My old Integra loved the stuff. 90k miles on M1 red cap had left a very light film of varnish under the valve cover. 20k on RTS cleaned that off. When the car died at 170k miles at the hands of a certain unlicensed, uninsured redlight runner a kid bought the engine and stuffed it in a CRX and it's still (ticking) scratch that, purring would be better. It didn't run at vfr revs but it spent a lot of it's life between 5 and 7k.

I'm quite happy with the stuff.

Edited by vfrjim2002
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and have always come home to RTS.

I'm quite happy with the stuff.

Can I assume RTS= Rotella T Syn?

:thumbsup:

You betcha. :thumbsup:

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So does anybody send in used oil samples to a lab for analysis?

I guess I'm a bit on the lazy side because I opted for the Mobil1 just so I wouldn't have to change the oil as often.

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I like Mobil 1 gold cap best, but it got too expensive, so now I use Mobil 1 grey cap. Way cheaper, and I just change the oil more often. I tried Rotella T, but didn't like that is always looked dirty, even when fresh. My tranny seems to shift the smoothest on Mobil 1 gold cap, but the silver cap is a close second. It was knotchy with the T.

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I tried Rotella T, but didn't like that is always looked dirty, even when fresh.

That's funny, after 3 session and 3 endows the Shell Rotella still looks new in my F4i track bike! :blink:

Were you been boy? :unsure:

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So does anybody send in used oil samples to a lab for analysis?

I guess I'm a bit on the lazy side because I opted for the Mobil1 just so I wouldn't have to change the oil as often.

I keep saying I'm going to stock up on the Blackstone kits, but never follow through. The story of my life. :unsure:

As to the change intervals, as little as riding as I've gotten done in the last year or so, I've been running out the clock on the oil before I hit the mileage limits. sad.gif

Edited by vfrjim2002
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So does anybody send in used oil samples to a lab for analysis?

I guess I'm a bit on the lazy side because I opted for the Mobil1 just so I wouldn't have to change the oil as often.

Dutch I did 2 samples back in the first 10,000 miles, I did about 5 oil changes in the first 6000 mile, that was with rotella syn. I was seeing alot of contaminant even at 1000 mile intervals, between 6 to 9 ,000 mile I did the samples, Amsoil 15w40 generated the same wear numbers as the Rotlella syn but amsoil had double the miles. Both were out of spec on viscosity and flash point 1100mile on rotella and 2000 on Amsoil, there was also some fuel dilution.

After about 10 or 15,000 mile My oil started holding up alot better, I havent felt the need to retest.

I just wanted to see what the analisys said versus my eyeball on my oil dumps.

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