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5th gen needs new reg/rectifier.


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After nursing along my old r/r for a few years, it is finally time to replace.  Barely getting 13.2v at cruise now.  I thought I had seen recommendations for a SH775 but wanted to get opinions on choices before I purchase one.  Also wanted to know of any preferred suppliers.  Thanks

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sfdownhill wrote a how to on the other forum:

https://vfrworld.com/threads/photos-of-no-drama-r-r-from-roadstercycle-com.54584/

 

Shindengen SH847 series-style r/r from roadstercycle.com (Jack) is a good source. 

 

Jack's site is informative, you can get info on why SH847 is a good choice.

 

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Contrary to popular regurgitated internet-gospel, issue with SH775 is NOT RPM-related, because there's no RPM-input line to RR (it has no idea what RPM engine's running). Its voltage limitation and depending upon stator coil-windings configuration, higher-RPMs result in higher AC-voltage that must be regulated down. So... if your stator puts out more than 60-VAC at high-RPMs, then go with SH847 which can handle up to 80-VAC. 


My 15,000-RPM Ninja 250 track-bike uses SH775 with no issues. Stator puts out 30-40 VAC in mid-range and 60-VAC @ 15,000-RPM redline, so SH775 can handle it. Simple test of compatibility is to just measure stator-output with multimeter.

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Polaris OEM # 4012941 is same as SH775. Used to be cheap to buy from Polaris dealer. But they've caught on to others buying it too and raised their prices.

 

Eastern Beaver sells connector kits to fit RR. https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/R-R_Connectors/r-r_connectors.html

 

To connect to factory harness, chop off old connectors and use proper linesman/western-union splice to connect to new connectors. Solder and seal with adhesive heat-shrink tubing.

 

Like with RR, you want to upgrade specs on wiring as well, otherwise in couple years, you'll end up with exact same corrosion and overheating issues factory wiring had. I recommend silicone-insulated tinned wiring. Terminals should be crimped and soldered (serves different purposes).

 

 

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SH847 is rated at 50amp. The SH775 is rated at 30amp. Both are Series Regulators, and a great way to go.

The FH020AA is cheaper than the Series type and is a Shunt type, but instead of using old SCR switching technology it uses MOSFET technology meaning faster more efficient and cooler running than the OEM SCR Shunt type R/R. 

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Not sure why anyone would ever by a shunt R/R, when series R/R are available.  The cost isn’t much different to have the far superior SH847. 

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13 hours ago, Mohawk said:

As Grum says, MOSFET Shunt regs are the way forward. 

Hi Mohawk. Sorry I wasn't really inferring MOSFET Shunt being the way forward, merely describing the two types. For sure, its a Great improvement on the old OEM SCR Shunt R/R technology.

But have to agree with ducnut and many others, the Series stator saving type is the best way to go for sure, regardless of cost.

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9 hours ago, Grum said:

Hi Mohawk. Sorry I wasn't really inferring MOSFET Shunt being the way forward, merely describing the two types. For sure, its a Great improvement on the old OEM SCR Shunt R/R technology.

But have to agree with ducnut and many others, the Series stator saving type is the best way to go for sure, regardless of cost.

 

Particularly for gens that no longer have OEM stators available, it's probably worthwhile to employ what's available to extend their life.  

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2 hours ago, trmoyer said:

I replaced mine with the MOSFET FA020AA kit from Jack at Roadstercycle and can’t complain. It’s simple, reasonable priced and I mounted mine on the left side of the subframe. 

C32DF601-6E3B-4B40-B417-A4C4F2865027.jpeg

Looks like mine-for a minute I thought you'd hacked my computer and copied my photo😁.  So far so good. Very high quality wiring included as well.

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8 hours ago, trmoyer said:

I replaced mine with the MOSFET FA020AA kit from Jack at Roadstercycle and can’t complain. It’s simple, reasonable priced and I mounted mine on the left side of the subframe. 

C32DF601-6E3B-4B40-B417-A4C4F2865027.jpeg

 

Is anyone familiar with the behavior of the auto-resetting circuit breakers (in photo, above)?  I'm used to manual reset breakers - like a fuse they need human intervention to reset.  If it's auto reset does it just keep cycling or does it keep the circuit open until it's powered off - then open again when re-powered if the short remains?  And how does one know it's tripped vs the load (bulb or whatever) not working? 

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1 hour ago, Cogswell said:

Is anyone familiar with the behavior of the auto-resetting circuit breakers (in photo, above)?  I'm used to manual reset breakers - like a fuse they need human intervention to reset.  If it's auto reset does it just keep cycling or does it keep the circuit open until it's powered off - then open again when re-powered if the short remains?  And how does one know it's tripped vs the load (bulb or whatever) not working

Hi Cogswell.

Haven't looked into these. Possibly reset is done just by thermal action bit like the old blinker relays, not sure really. However personally I'd never use one without some form of fuse in series as well. If the auto reset C/B contacts become welded together then you're in deep shit!

Why in the event of a short you'd want a device that continues supply and trip current to it is strange and potentially dangerous!

 

I can tell you after nearly 40 years in the aircraft industry, auto resetting C/B's are not used - for very good reasons!

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The auto resets are supplied with the Roadster Cycle kits pre-installed in the wiring.  I found some info from a vendor of the breakers, below.  I suppose since it's protecting the output  from the R/R, the odds of it tripping are low.  It would be easy enough to clip the auto-reset out and spice in a fuse block or some type of manual breaker.  God knows there was plenty of wire for that in the kit.   Just seems strange that there would be no way to know that it's tripped. 

 

https://www.delcity.net/store/12V-Auto-Reset-Circuit-Breakers/p_198669.h_198846

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I installed my voltmeter pickup on the input side of the breaker. This way, if things start going haywire, I can still see what the voltage looks like out of the R/R, IF the bike is still running. Also, this point would seem to be the most accurate for a voltage reading. 

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1 hour ago, Cogswell said:

The auto resets are supplied with the Roadster Cycle kits pre-installed in the wiring.  I found some info from a vendor of the breakers, below.  I suppose since it's protecting the output  from the R/R, the odds of it tripping are low.  It would be easy enough to clip the auto-reset out and spice in a fuse block or some type of manual breaker.  God knows there was plenty of wire for that in the kit.   Just seems strange that there would be no way to know that it's tripped. 

 

https://www.delcity.net/store/12V-Auto-Reset-Circuit-Breakers/p_198669.h_198846

 

The fuse or circuit breaker on the main positive out from the R/R is to protect the wiring from going up in a puff of smoke in the event of an internal R/R positive to ground short, Or excessive load on the output side.

 

Fuses and circuit breakers main purpose is to protect the wiring Not the device hanging off the wiring.

 

The idea of an auto-reset continually happening on either overload or short seems bazaar.

 

Fuses or circuit breakers are there in the event that the designed wiring current carrying load is exceeded. The wiring current capacity is taken into account at design and should easily accommodate the load and surge factors, not dead shorts!

The protection device being fuse or C/B should interrupt any overload or short Once until the problem sorted. You then replace or reset the fuse or C/B. Logically you may blow a fuse or two or trip a breaker whilst fault finding, however you have control over this situation, not an auto-resetting device.

 

After discovering these things just continue resetting. I wouldn't ever use one. However, YMMV.

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2 hours ago, Grum said:

 

The fuse or circuit breaker on the main positive out from the R/R is to protect the wiring from going up in a puff of smoke in the event of an internal R/R positive to ground short, Or excessive load on the output side.

 

Fuses and circuit breakers main purpose is to protect the wiring Not the device hanging off the wiring.

 

The idea of an auto-reset continually happening on either overload or short seems bazaar.

 

Fuses or circuit breakers are there in the event that the designed wiring current carrying load is exceeded. The wiring current capacity is taken into account at design and should easily accommodate the load and surge factors, not dead shorts!

The protection device being fuse or C/B should interrupt any overload or short Once until the problem sorted. You then replace or reset the fuse or C/B. Logically you may blow a fuse or two or trip a breaker whilst fault finding, however you have control over this situation, not an auto-resetting device.

 

After discovering these things just continue resetting. I wouldn't ever use one. However, 

 

Likewise - the more I'm learning about these the less appealing they are.  It seems illogical to reset a c/b before discovering and correcting  the reason it was tripped.  Maybe substituting an inline 30A maxi fuse is the way to go. 

 

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Danno, thanks for the info. Did not know about 775's and the false information regarding them. 

Cogswell's question and Grum's answer now has me thinking, should I add a fuse and possibly remove the C/B?

Felt odd during install there was no fuse. 

 

Here's some more info with pictures on how I mounted the 847.

I used the following stainless hardware.

The narrow base weld nuts came from mcmaster, other hardware from local hardware store.
M6 button head 40 mm length (2)
M6 fender washer (2)
M6 standard washer (2)
M6 narrow-base weld nut (2)
https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/127/3472

 

 

Rectifier_01.jpg.d8368ac5b5660c658dab4a780772949d.jpg

 

The 847 is mounted on subframe using Jack's wiring harness. After a few measurements to make sure the R/R had clearance for cowl, I drilled a couple of holes and mounted as shown above.

All instructions I read regarding this upgrade said "connect to stator" so I took them literally and ordered extra long yellow 12 gauge copper marine grade wires.   Once everything was apart including removing enough oil to open alternator cover, I could not figure out how to route the thicker yellow wires using the same path taken by the OEM wires.  (I've included a parts diagram below for reference) After a phone call with Jack, he said "connect to stator" was not literal; anywhere after the connector would work.  The yellow wires did not make it directly to stator but just on the other side of the rubber plug/seal that sits between the alternator cover and the engine case.  All wires were soldered to linesman/western-union/NASA spec and sealed with silicon.

 

Rectifier_02.jpg.083258d628c4bab89e20250ae0cf81a8.jpg

 

Two 40mm bolts, some washers and a couple of narrow base weld nuts keeps it tidy.

 

Don't know size specs for a 775, this may or may not work for a 775.

 

Fitzer, sounds like a 775 is a great choice. Jack (https://roadstercycle.com/) sells 775's so there's a supplier many VFRD users trust.  As mentioned earlier, Mello Dude was selling plates that could be of use.

 

Jack has a few videos that may be of interest

https://www.youtube.com/user/Roadstercycle/videos

 

He's got a series of videos on his Mustang GT Tesla swap!

 

Good luck with your conversion. It's great having peace of mind knowing your electrical system will work and take you home safely.

 

 

Rectifier_03.jpg.828247cc055045685d48594d6ada4525.jpg

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cogswell said:

 

Likewise - the more I'm learning about these the less appealing they are.  It seems illogical to reset a c/b before discovering and correcting  the reason it was tripped.  Maybe substituting an inline 30A maxi fuse is the way to go. 

 

Totally agree Cogs, a standard 30amp C/B or the 30amp maxi fuse is the way to go for sure.

Cheers.

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Note that problems start with bare brass spade connectors in factory wiring; which corrodes over time and causes overheating. So always upgrade specs to tin or zinc-coated connectors.

 

Another problem is current capacity. Highest-rated 1/4" spade connector handles only 24-amp! Honda uses it in 30-amp circuit! So of course it'll overheat and burn. There's special connectors made for higher-current with better springs: https://www.delcity.net/store/Maxi-Fuse-Modules/p_820374.h_820405.r_IF1003

Or use bolt-on maxi-fuse holder:  https://www.delcity.net/store/MAXI®-Fuse-Blocks/p_924182.h_808048

 

Best to upgrade to MIDI fuses which uses bolt-on interface. Extra clamping pressure on larger contact surface area keeps moisture out for corrosion prevention. Starts out at 30-amps and goes up to 200-amp!

 

 uc?export=download&id=1Uvq9MdXRwIC_Wcdit

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11 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

Note that problems start with bare brass spade connectors in factory wiring; which corrodes over time and causes overheating. So always upgrade specs to tin or zinc-coated connectors.

 

Another problem is current capacity. Highest-rated 1/4" spade connector handles only 24-amp! Honda uses it in 30-amp circuit! So of course it'll overheat and burn. There's special connectors made for higher-current with better springs: https://www.delcity.net/store/Maxi-Fuse-Modules/p_820374.h_820405.r_IF1003

Or use bolt-on maxi-fuse holder:  https://www.delcity.net/store/MAXI®-Fuse-Blocks/p_924182.h_808048

 

Best to upgrade to MIDI fuses which uses bolt-on interface. Extra clamping pressure on larger contact surface area keeps moisture out for corrosion prevention. Starts out at 30-amps and goes up to 200-amp!

 

 uc?export=download&id=1Uvq9MdXRwIC_Wcdit

 

Danno,

 

Any downside to using a manual breaker vs the midi fuse?  My main thought is that the fuses are one less thing to carry and are limited in number.  The breaker can be reset as necessary.  It does appear to be bulkier though, and on a 6th gen saying that space around the battery is limited is an understatement.

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