New 5th/6th/8th gen performance header now in production in USA

[sfdownhill 272]

Here’s an important installation note about the new headers: using anti-seize on the head stud bolts (recommended) reduces friction enough that the 9 ft-lbs torque for the header nuts specified in the service manual has proven to be enough to bend even the thick, high grade stainless flanges Wade is using on our headers. We’re not sure if this happened because each of the two prototype headers has been installed and removed several times for fitment and dyno on both 5 gen and 6 gen motorcycles, or if 9 ft-lbs is just too much torque when using anti-seize. The flanges are still serviceable and nothing has broken, but bending where you don’t want it is always bad. As the flange bends toward the head, it likes to bend the head studs outward, which makes removal and future installations tricky. We’ll stay on top of this occurrence, try using less torque on future installations, and report back.

[sfdownhill 272]

49 minutes ago, sfdownhill said:

I'll PM BusyLittleShop and see if he can offer any insight

 

I sent a PM to BusyLittleShop asking about a quick release system for VFR center stands. Note - BLS has been logging pilot-in-command time in a P-51 Mustang lately, so he may be wonderfully preoccupied.

 

Anything that can be turned up about this by searching this site and VFRW will be welcomed.

[MooseMoose 152]

Thanks, this was just the discussion I was wanting to have.

 

Personally, I'm fine leaving it on once the pipes are on.  And I don't care about the weight savings.  I use it all the damned time, and 5 or 7 lbs dead center and low is not going to do a thing for me, as I'm a slow rider and fatter than the average bear.  I just thought it might be a good time to clean off some rust and pretty it up a little since I'm going to be ripping stuff off anyway. 

 

For others, a removable solution sounds interesting.

 

The delk's have slip fittings, so you can get that bolt out, but it isn't exactly a  feature. Slip joints are one way of avoiding weld cracks and the like, but taking them apart and putting them back multiple times is not a good thing. That's really leaks waiting to happen, which is why I haven't just yanked the pipe and pulled me stand off already.

 

 

[WackenSS 38]

Here’s an important installation note about the new headers: using anti-seize on the head stud bolts (recommended) reduces friction enough that the 9 ft-lbs torque for the header nuts specified in the service manual has proven to be enough to bend even the thick, high grade stainless flanges Wade is using on our headers. We’re not sure if this happened because each of the two prototype headers has been installed and removed several times for fitment and dyno on both 5 gen and 6 gen motorcycles, or if 9 ft-lbs is just too much torque when using anti-seize. The flanges are still serviceable and nothing has broken, but bending where you don’t want it is always bad. As the flange bends toward the head, it likes to bend the head studs outward, which makes removal and future installations tricky. We’ll stay on top of this occurrence, try using less torque on future installations, and report back.

Did I miss the gasket discussion? Was it settled?

[MooseMoose 152]

Yeah, @WackenSS 42mm round copper gaskets are available from Delkovic USA, but aren't on their website. Just email them and ask for them specifically, or call them.

 

They are less than $5 each shipped in the US.   In the UK you can get them from the ebay.

[WackenSS 38]

Yeah, [mention=13175]WackenSS[/mention] 42mm round copper gaskets are available from Delkovic USA, but aren't on their website. Just email them and ask for them specifically, or call them.
 
They are less than $5 each shipped in the US.   In the UK you can get them from the ebay.

Did not find them on eBay.

Anyone have the part number?

Closest I found is https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F190691213429

[ScottieDucati 39]

Still taking deposits for 5th gen headers? Not in a rush, but the progress shows!


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[MooseMoose 152]

59 minutes ago, WackenSS said:

Did not find them on eBay.

Anyone have the part number?

Closest I found is https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F190691213429

 

You don't need Delkovic brand. Just search 42mm copper gasket.  Here's a store:  http://predatormotorsport.co.uk/EXHAUST-PORT-GASKET-ROUND-COPPER-42mm-O-D/

 

Less than three quid/3.34 Euro.  I think you still have a few weeks before they're out of the EU.

[MBrane 146]

ZX7R gaskets appear to be the correct size, and type.

[MooseMoose 152]

Yeah, and a few Suzukis are the correct size and type, too. 

 

82-92 GSXR1100 -- https://www.eeygoshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=465599

the 1300s and large bandits are 42mm, too.

 

I don't know that the round section is the only good one (as opposed to the correctly sized flat ones). I just know that's what SFDownhill had good success with while the other sizes and options were less than optimal. So I'm sticking with what someone else proved works.

[MBrane 146]

Just an FYI I have removed, and reinstalled the center stand on a 5th gen without removing the headers. It takes a bit of prying, and cursing but it's doable. Fortunately I have separate work, and play bikes now so don't have to do that again.

[Duc2V4 1008]

51 minutes ago, ScottieDucati said:

Still taking deposits for 5th gen headers? Not in a rush, but the progress shows!


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I believe the next run is for 8 Gens but sfdownhill can confirm whether we can squeeze in another 5 or 6 Gen or not.

[sfdownhill 272]

2 hours ago, WackenSS said:

Did I miss the gasket discussion? Was it settled?

 

Having tried four different types of 42mm crush gaskets, we found the best option is 42mm copper crush gaskets from Delkevic (pictured in a couple places on this thread). The 42mm gaskets are not on Delk’s website and they do not sell them on ebay. I only learned of them because I was on the phone with Matt at Delk to order the 41mm gaskets they recommend for VFR800s (Hoping the 41mm gaskets would crush to a functional size) and Matt said they have and sell 42mm gaskets. The 42mm gaskets from Delk have a skinny, round cross section and crush to a perfect id that is larger than the VFR’s exhaust port. The Delk gaskets have a seam on one side - we put the seam side down, toward the head, to give the header’s collar a cleaner surface to press against. They create a good seal. All the other 42mm gaskets we tried were too big to fit into the head’s sleeve - where the headers seat - without grinding and/or cutting. I’m editing out reams of trial and error, grinding, cutting, splicing, and cursing data. Even the Delk washers are difficult to get started into the sleeve, but because they are so thin, they can be persuaded past the lip of the sleeve. After starting the gaskets in by hand, the headers do the rest of the job of escorting the gaskets into their final resting place, then crushing them. It’s a lovely kind of slow-paced violence.

[Airisom 8]

Any way we can get the crush gaskets tacked onto the invoice?

[sfdownhill 272]

9 hours ago, ScottieDucati said:

Still taking deposits for 5th gen headers? Not in a rush, but the progress shows!


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Hi Scottie - we have two of this production run tagged for prototyping as 8 gen headers. We may not need both, so there may be a spare 5 gen header. That won’t be determined for two more weeks.

 

When we suggested modular front primaries to Wade because they would allow simultaneous production of 5/6 and 8 gen headers, he stood firm - his process is to build one type of exhaust at a time, stem-to-stern.

 

The mention of schedule brings up the cancellation of tomorrow’s 6 gen dyno day. Over the past 6 weeks or so (In our spare time!) we’ve been doing surgery and 3D R&D on Hammerdrill’s OEM 6 gen mufflers (I’ll try to start a new thread on this effort). Bottom

line - we couldn’t get the mufflers done in time and decided to hold off on dyno tuning until we had the final configuration firing on all four cylinders - literally.

 

The current reschedule of dyno time puts us on April 6 and April 9. Whichever bike is ready first - 6 gen or 8 gen - will go on April 6, and the other will be dyno’d April 9. Gotta git’er’done in time to head down to COTA. We are working hard to have both bikes ready well before April 6, so we can flip a coin instead of being rushed.

[sfdownhill 272]

8 hours ago, Airisom said:

Any way we can get the crush gaskets tacked onto the invoice?

 

Hi Airisom - good question. We've run through the Delkevic gaskets we purchased, but it makes sense to order another slew of them so we can toss them [figuratively] into the boxes with headers. Delkevic charges $5 per gasket plus shipping. If we took on this additional task, individual purchasers wouldn't have to find and order gaskets, then pay Delkevic's flat rate shipping - the very small box of 16 gaskets weighed nearly nothing, and cost $11 to ship from Delkevic in Colorado to CA.

 

The only downside here is that Duc2V4 has just finished doing an stellar job of putting together a master spreadsheet and individual invoices for each individual who has purchased headers. His thorough spreadsheets account for basic cost, shipping, insurance, passivation [if selected], extra bung [if selected], 5 gen or 6 gen configuration [5/8" difference in collector exit length], center stand stop [if selected], deposit placed, and sales tax where applicable. With headers set to be picked up next week, we can't introduce variables that could cause delays in gathering the funds we will need to pay Wade before receiving the headers.

 

Does anyone have a suggestion for including gaskets and their cost without re-invoicing or slowing down the payment/picking up headers process? Half of the purchasers of headers have paid their final balances, and I'm sure the rest are about to. We'll have a week after picking up the headers during which most of them will be at the metal treatment company for passivation, so we can work out the gasket options then, before shipping.

[sfdownhill 272]

On 3/20/2019 at 11:28 PM, Duc2V4 said:

I just sent out PMs, if you have made your deposit and are expecting a PM regarding this first round of headers and did not get a PM from me, please PM me and let me know and I'll make sure I get yours out to you. Getting closer folks!

 

Cheers,

D

 

 

With that many PMs, should we start calling you PMaster? Or maybe Message Man, and get you a set of leathers with a bold 'PM' logo?

[WackenSS 38]

@sfdownhill, if I could get the thickness of the delkevic i can source them locally. don't want it to be crushed into the port when tightening.

 

I'd suggest a group-buy for lower cost and getting proven gasket, making sure it won't delay shipping, and then just have people PayPal that extra amount before it wraps up.

 

 

[Airisom 8]

Well, they don't have to be tacked onto the invoice, but it would be nice if they were included in the package. Treating it separately would be fine for those who want them. 

 

I just figured that shipping a bulk of them to a single address would be a lot cheaper than shipping individually to multiple addresses. 

 

WakenSS' idea could work for me as well. 

[BuzznerSuntrusts 512]

19 hours ago, sfdownhill said:

 

I had another thought on removability of CSs: since only the right side CS fixing bolt access is hindered by the headers, and the bolt hole for the right side fixing bolt goes all the way through the cush bracket, there might be a way to run a tap all the way through the bolt hole to clear the threads, then thread a bolt of precise length through from the center of the bike outward to a nut on the outside of the CS where the bolthead usually resides. This would allow removal of the bolt without removing the headers.

 

NOTE - 6 GENS HAVE REVERSE [LEFT-HAND] THREADING ON THE RIGHT SIDE CS FIXING BOLT. 6 GEN LEFT SIDE CS FIXING BOLT HAS REGULAR [RIGHT-HAND] THREADING.

ADDITIONAL NOTE - 5 GENS HAVE REGULAR [RIGHT-HAND] THREADING ON BOTH THE RIGHT AND LEFT SIDE CS FIXING BOLTS.

[Please do not ask me why I'm so adamant about this or how I learned about the 5/6 gen CS bolt threading anomaly - it still stings a bit]

I had a similar idea for a quick release CS. I was thinking of trying to find an appropriate size clevis pin to replace the bolt and secure it with a hitch pin or split pin.

If you ever try to search ebay for a 6th Gen Rear Cushion (Thats the part that mounts the swingarm to the engine and what the CS is mounted to) they ALL have the right side bolt head broken off! LOL

[sfdownhill 272]

3 hours ago, BuzznerSuntrusts said:

If you ever try to search ebay for a 6th Gen Rear Cushion (Thats the part that mounts the swingarm to the engine and what the CS is mounted to) they ALL have the right side bolt head broken off! LOL

 

So true. The irony in my case was that I had been working on a couple 6 gens and was prepared for and expecting the reverse threads. Then I went to take the center stand off of my 5 gen....I swear that bolt never even slowed down before it snapped off.

 

I really like your idea for a clevis pin in place of the right side CS fixing bolt.

[jim v 21]

Payment sent. Still hard to believe this is actually happening, might be able to get them on before riding season gets into full swing.......

[ScottieDucati 39]

PM’d, just keep me posted. This is too amazing not to get in.


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[jim v 21]

fyi - 42mm copper crush gaskets are available from the Delkovic website -

 

https://delkevic.com/accessories/gaskets/copper-gaskets/

[MooseMoose 152]

Awesome! That's a brand new addition. They weren't there a week ago.