Unleashing 5th Gen Factory Power + DMr + Thurn MS

[Blazerdman]

This thread is hilarious, I bought a full delkevic 300mm round system which is not a performance system. Sure it sounds boss as fuck but I'm not gonna try and claim I'm getting 115whp, I might....MIGHT be pushing 110 but dude stop claiming these headers are performance headers. They are 98/99 clones in stainless steel which does not mean performance it just means no cat.

[2k1GoneWild]

1 hour ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

 

That was an Erion racing full system. I'm not sure the end story on it, probably $500 or $600. Honestly, if someone was paying attention, they could have stole it from him for about $200 lol. He had no idea it was a full system lol.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

 

Sounds great ! Can I get added to the list ? Will they make in SS ?

[CandyRedRC46]

Sounds great ! Can I get added to the list ? Will they make in SS ?

FFS man do you even click the links that people post on your thread or are you just here for an audience to watch you talk to your self lol.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Forbes]

Had a 'friend', I say friend because one day he walked past us at drag racing and didn't acknowledge us.....last time we saw him, but he used to goad us on everything.. he swore blind that the phrase "real McCoy" was "real mccaw" as in the bird and vice versa. Just saying!

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[2k1GoneWild]

1 hour ago, Blazerdman said:

This thread is hilarious, I bought a full delkevic 300mm round system which is not a performance system. Sure it sounds boss as fuck but I'm not gonna try and claim I'm getting 115whp, I might....MIGHT be pushing 110 but dude stop claiming these headers are performance headers. They are 98/99 clones in stainless steel which does not mean performance it just means no cat.

All I can say is the Black Widow headers are in fact "performance" and do not restrict or hold back and power to the point where if you replace the Black Widow with another system you would get more power. Nobody can prove anything otherwise, just bashing because they want people to think that headers ads something you cannot or no longer can obtain which is pure rubbish ! As long as the headers are not restrictI've ,they are getting the job done. I'm not losing any power with the Black Widow Downpipes, they are bully exteremly well with beautiful welds and fit perfect, installed in an hour no issues. Match up perfect with the Staintune, my front wheel comes off the ground in first gear and the bike rockets through all the gears right up to 11,000 rpm in 6th gear at 155 mph there is still some power there, but then I run out of road. ECU Germany + PC lll (fuel mapped) + Second Snorkel Airbox (no flapper)+ K & N + Black Widow SS Downpipes + Staintune High Level (no baffle) = 112 whp

[boOZZIE]

1 hour ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

Sounds great ! Can I get added to the list ? Will they make in SS ?

"All the Black Widow "bashing by opionion" is pure nonsense because the bike runs fantastic. I'm not going to remove or replace the Black Widow Downpipes based upon anything that's been posted here. "

 

 

 

[thtanner]

29 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

All I can say is the Black Widow headers are in fact "performance" and do not restrict or hold back and power to the point where if you replace the Black Widow with another system you would get more power. Nobody can prove anything otherwise

 

Do you enjoy being wrong all the time? Because you are. I wish they'd just lock the thread so we didn't have to get subjected to this rubbish. 

[RVFR]

Yea well the TYGA is looking like rocking horse poo. Sad too, There's  lots of interests

[Shinigami]

Quote

the bike rockets through all the gears right up to 11,000 rpm in 6th gear at 155 mph there is still some power there

 

I have over 10 years' experience with this bike and engine, and I believe you are stating an impossibility.

 

My only question is why?  The concerns that you will mislead people who don't know better are completely valid.

[2k1GoneWild]

37 minutes ago, Shinigami said:

 

I have over 10 years' experience with this bike and engine, and I believe you are stating an impossibility.

 

My only question is why?  The concerns that you will mislead people who don't know better are completely valid.

 

37 minutes ago, Shinigami said:

 

I have over 10 years' experience with this bike and engine, and I believe you are stating an impossibility.

 

My only question is why?  The concerns that you will mislead people who don't know better are completely valid.

I just ordered a tank cam mount from Hungary and will make and post videos shortly, you'll see just how my bike runs through gears, I deserve the benefit of the doubt because I am actually spending the money and turning the wrenches and doing everything right based upon what's possible, actually obtainable  and what actually makes pefect sense?

Look at this on eBay
Tank Camera GPS Radar GoPro Mount - Honda VFR1200F VFR 1200 1200F

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

[Blazerdman]

53 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

 

I just ordered a tank cam mount from Hungary and will make and post videos shortly, you'll see just how my bike runs through gears, I deserve the benefit of the doubt because I am actually spending the money and turning the wrenches and doing everything right based upon what's possible, actually obtainable  and what actually makes pefect sense?

Look at this on eBay
Tank Camera GPS Radar GoPro Mount - Honda VFR1200F VFR 1200 1200F

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

I think you misunderstand what I and everyone else is saying. Yes the headers would be a vast improvement over your stock ones for an 00/01, BUT they would be not much if at all better than if you'd put on a set of stock 98/99 headers. Stainless steel doesn't make it any less restrictive or even dissipate heat better, all stainless steel really means is it won't rust like crazy from being stored outside.

 

You seem to really want to validate the money you've spent and I can understand that, I kind of did the same thing when I bought the full Delkevic system but when I dyno'd it I only came up with 106whp. Slapped on a pipercross air filter and a PCV and I got 110whp and that was in the most optimal conditions you could ever want for a dyno too. Sure it feels a lot faster to me because I've dropped weight and added HP from the mods but overall the bike isn't really objectively much faster.

 

This forum has an amazing wealth of information and guys who have more experience and knowledge with these bikes than one could ask for and those guys never get more than 110whp without a supercharger or doing an overbore.

 

Hell Mohawk who overbored his still only got 120whp and HighsideNZ who overbored & messed with the cam gears got 136whp. These engines just aren't capable of more than 110whp with just full exhaust system, aftermarket airfilter, "German ECU" and a PC.

 

Before mods you're bike probably produced something like 90-95whp, after the mods you've done you'd easily be over 100whp but most VFR's never see that magical 110whp they are theoretically capable of. This can be from a number of factors including age, wear or just how it was built from Honda. When Honda advertises a bike at 100whp it's not an exact number that's just what their highest average has been when they've tested the bike stock, if you were to buy 2 brand new 2017 CBR1000RR's which are being advertised as 178 to the crank and you dyno'd them the day you bought them I would not at all be surprised if they give you different numbers. Remember this a combustion engines they're basically using tiny explosions to accelerate the engine, explosions aren't terribly predictable.

[2k1GoneWild]

6 minutes ago, Blazerdman said:

I think you misunderstand what I and everyone else is saying. Yes the headers would be a vast improvement over your stock ones for an 00/01, BUT they would be not much if at all better than if you'd put on a set of stock 98/99 headers. Stainless steel doesn't make it any less restrictive or even dissipate heat better, all stainless steel really means is it won't rust like crazy from being stored outside.

 

You seem to really want to validate the money you've spent and I can understand that, I kind of did the same thing when I bought the full Delkevic system but when I dyno'd it I only came up with 106whp. Slapped on a pipercross air filter and a PCV and I got 110whp and that was in the most optimal conditions you could ever want for a dyno too. Sure it feels a lot faster to me because I've dropped weight and added HP from the mods but overall the bike isn't really objectively much faster.

 

This forum has an amazing wealth of information and guys who have more experience and knowledge with these bikes than one could ask for and those guys never get more than 110whp without a supercharger or doing an overbore.

 

Hell Mohawk who overbored his still only got 120whp and HighsideNZ who overbored & messed with the cam gears got 136whp. These engines just aren't capable of more than 110whp with just full exhaust system, aftermarket airfilter, "German ECU" and a PC.

 

Before mods you're bike probably produced something like 90-95whp, after the mods you've done you'd easily be over 100whp but most VFR's never see that magical 110whp they are theoretically capable of. This can be from a number of factors including age, wear or just how it was built from Honda. When Honda advertises a bike at 100whp it's not an exact number that's just what their highest average has been when they've tested the bike stock, if you were to buy 2 brand new 2017 CBR1000RR's which are being advertised as 178 to the crank and you dyno'd them the day you bought them I would not at all be surprised if they give you different numbers. Remember this a combustion engines they're basically using tiny explosions to accelerate the engine, explosions aren't terribly predictable.

You'll be able to get a better grasp when I start posting videos of this bike running through the gears It's not being held back by anything whatsoever. I take it right up to 155 mph at 11,000 rpm in 6th gear and that's all she's really got and there's no surges or gaps in power getting my there, it's putting mg out the full 110 whp, I agree that's all it's capable of really doing, anything over 155 mph would require more than it's worth. The idea is it's very responsive and runs perfect with no issues, it's tuned right. I'm sure a DynoJet might show some higher numbers but it would not mean much and if you go in and try and get more power all your going to do is drastically reduce the engine life.

[deltaboxii]

On 11/16/2016 at 9:35 AM, 2k1GoneWild said:

Except you did not mention each DynoJet season costs $350 ! So I don't think I have the pockets to put it back to OEM, run the Dyno Test, then re-install everything, that would take at least another 3-4 hours. The pupose and objective is to unleash all the factory power without dismantling the engine. The DynoJet is necessary to custom develop the fuel mapping and get the supporting power performance graph.Anything over 115 whp should put me right in there with the elite of the VFR tuning community. I produced a plan, spent the money, did the work and got the results, period. Now let the power pundits say whatever because it won't really matter, once this job is "done done" ?

 I only have 105 rwhp.  Guess I am not part of the "elite of the VFR tuning community".

 

This thread has been even more enjoyable to read everyday than the latest Wikileaks treasure trove on Hillary. 

[Dustin]

1 hour ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

You'll be able to get a better grasp when I start posting videos of this bike running through the gears It's not being held back by anything whatsoever. I take it right up to 155 mph at 11,000 rpm in 6th gear and that's all she's really got and there's no surges or gaps in power getting my there, it's putting mg out the full 110 whp, I agree that's all it's capable of really doing, anything over 155 mph would require more than it's worth. The idea is it's very responsive and runs perfect with no issues, it's tuned right. I'm sure a DynoJet might show some higher numbers but it would not mean much and if you go in and try and get more power all your going to do is drastically reduce the engine life.

 

Just get to the videos already. You've been promising these for weeks now

[2k1GoneWild]

2 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

Just get to the videos already. You've been promising these for weeks now

I'm waiting for the tank mounted holder to arrive from Hungary, you'll see just what I've been talking about "unleashing factory power" has been a "total success" and I am throughly pleased with the Black Widow Downpipes and how they mated up perfectly to the Staintune high level that created problably the best SS full system for the buck becaus not only does it look great,run faster at lower temperatures,it will also last forever and never rust. Jet-Flo will ceramic coat the entire system but they gave me a quote of $650- and I don't think there would be any significant power gains to justify the cost. The new seat should be getter my back from Corbin power pretty soon. I have some great roads to make videos, trust me you won't be disappointed?

[Dustin]

I assure you I will be

[Cogswell]

2 hours ago, deltaboxii said:

 

This thread has been even more enjoyable to read everyday than the latest Wikileaks treasure trove on Hillary. 

 

415 replies - this thread feels like the car accident on the opposite side of the freeway that everyone knows they shouldn't gawk at, but they can't help themselves and slow down to look anyway.    I don't think Toro1's supercharger build thread got that many replies - and that was for a documented 175hp! 

[VFROZ]

^ +1

Has Sunofwolf got a new user name at a new forum?

 

You have to give him 10 out of 10 for optimism

[CandyRedRC46]

 

7 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

I'm waiting for the tank mounted holder to arrive from Hungary, you'll see just what I've been talking about "unleashing factory power" has been a "total success" and I am throughly pleased with the Black Widow Downpipes and how they mated up perfectly to the Staintune high level that created problably the best SS full system for the buck becaus not only does it look great,run faster at lower temperatures,it will also last forever and never rust. Jet-Flo will ceramic coat the entire system but they gave me a quote of $650- and I don't think there would be any significant power gains to justify the cost. The new seat should be getter my back from Corbin power pretty soon. I have some great roads to make videos, trust me you won't be disappointed?

 

I feel like you are making up every number you write. I paid $160 to have my entire system coated inside and out.

 

"Success"  as in no faster than a 1998/1999 factory header.

[jhenley17]

My bike felt faster on the way to work this morning. It just pulled through the gears better than usual. I promise you guys, it's making 110 HP today.

[2k1GoneWild]

7 hours ago, Cogswell said:

 

415 replies - this thread feels like the car accident on the opposite side of the freeway that everyone knows they shouldn't gawk at, but they can't help themselves and slow down to look anyway.    I don't think Toro1's supercharger build thread got that many replies - and that was for a documented 175hp! 

Well right now there is a set of 98/99 OEM Downpipes available for $250- in very good condition. I could buy those headers and set them to Jet-Flow and get the ceramic coated on both the inside and outside for about $400- and if I decided to go that route.  I could put the center stand back on the VFR. It would run cooler with the coating because there is a somewhat reduction in residual heat. So I could buy those headers, get them ceramic coated, remove the Black Widow SS headers and install the ceramic coated 98/99. There won't be any ports for the LAMDA o2 sensors but I the center stand goes back. Now just think here for a moment, the fact that the Black Widow negate the use of the center stand is telling me that there is a performance factor here with the flow routing of the collector? I believe so, when everybody and their brother keeps declaring the Black Widow are non-performance headers and an exact reproduction of the OEM, this is in fact a false statement. So that being said and true, the next bigger question is would the ceramic coated OEM headers have less restriction through the allowance for side stand piping routing to the degree that it would increase power or redponse, more so than the Black Widiow headers? Ok you with me so far, the big question is "to the degree of improvement " within max power (110ish whp) this particular tune? I've thought about it and I think "not" and the benefits of a brand new SS header outweighs the risk and costs of the ceramic coating on older steel headers. If I really wanted the ultimate system I could cut an inspection port in the Black Widow at the collector in order to cut, grind and polish any surface imperfections, then send the Black Widow off to get ceramic coated and while I'm at it, ceramic coat the Staintune High Level. If this the "way to go" before I do that, buy the 98/99 and replace the Black Widow and see if the 98:99 OEM makes any difference, if it does then there is a high probability the Black Widow would need the intern al inspection. But at the end of the day, the Black Widow has greater potential for power because the piping is not being routed to accommodate a centerstand. So that being said I would appreciate any constructive feedback in this matter. I'm ready to layout $250 for the 98/99 OEM headers and follow thorough with this effort ?

[2k1GoneWild]

2 hours ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

 

 

I feel like you are making up every number you write. I paid $160 to have my entire system coated inside and out.

 

"Success"  as in no faster than a 1998/1999 factory header.

I've got a quote from Jet-Flo they are going to be more expensive because their preparation process has more steps, first the item gets baked at 900 degrees to remove and residuals, then it gets sand blasted with 60 grit media, then they coat both the inside and outside with the ceramic coating material. The header is $360-, the connector pipe is $45- and the exhaust is $150- plus shipping the total price for a full system was estimate at $650- but that's Jet-Flo in Oklahoma City (Dan Goff estimate # 156149) but if you want to think I am "making it up" that's fine with me too, I'll understand ?

[2k1GoneWild]

1 hour ago, jhenley17 said:

My bike felt faster on the way to work this morning. It just pulled through the gears better than usual. I promise you guys, it's making 110 HP today.

What's the formula for your 110 whp receipe? 

[CandyRedRC46]

1 hour ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

Well right now there is a set of 98/99 OEM Downpipes available for $250- in very good condition. I could buy those headers and set them to Jet-Flow and get the ceramic coated on both the inside and outside for about $400- and if I decided to go that route.  I could put the center stand back on the VFR. It would run cooler with the coating because there is a somewhat reduction in residual heat. So I could buy those headers, get them ceramic coated, remove the Black Widow SS headers and install the ceramic coated 98/99. There won't be any ports for the LAMDA o2 sensors but I the center stand goes back. Now just think here for a moment, the fact that the Black Widow negate the use of the center stand is telling me that there is a performance factor here with the flow routing of the collector? I believe so, when everybody and their brother keeps declaring the Black Widow are non-performance headers and an exact reproduction of the OEM, this is in fact a false statement. So that being said and true, the next bigger question is would the ceramic coated OEM headers have less restriction through the allowance for side stand piping routing to the degree that it would increase power or redponse, more so than the Black Widiow headers? Ok you with me so far, the big question is "to the degree of improvement " within max power (110ish whp) this particular tune? I've thought about it and I think "not" and the benefits of a brand new SS header outweighs the risk and costs of the ceramic coating on older steel headers. If I really wanted the ultimate system I could cut an inspection port in the Black Widow at the collector in order to cut, grind and polish any surface imperfections, then send the Black Widow off to get ceramic coated and while I'm at it, ceramic coat the Staintune High Level. If this the "way to go" before I do that, buy the 98/99 and replace the Black Widow and see if the 98:99 OEM makes any difference, if it does then there is a high probability the Black Widow would need the intern al inspection. But at the end of the day, the Black Widow has greater potential for power because the piping is not being routed to accommodate a centerstand. So that being said I would appreciate any constructive feedback in this matter. I'm ready to layout $250 for the 98/99 OEM headers and follow thorough with this effort ?

 

 

Man you just don't seem to get it do you. It's like you're on your  own planet or something. No one is telling you to get 98/99 headers, we're simply pointing out that you could have saved money and got the same theoretical power from them (not much).

 

Yes, ceramic coating would further reduce heat radiating from your header.

 

For the fifth time, you have no use for those o2 bungs since you are using o2 eliminators.

 

The lack of center stand provisions on black widows, has less to do with performance and more to do with cost cutting. I can assure you, the flow restriction from having small tube primaries (31mm inner diameter for 98/99 and black widow/motad/delkevic etc vs 35mm inner diameter for two brothers/erion) and unequal length piping, has a much heavier effect than this small bend for the center stand that you keep mentioning, that has never been pointed out.

 

Do you some how think that ceramic coating reduces restriction??

 

You will NEVER have an ultimate system by starting with a generic catless/ebay header such as black widow/motad/delkevic/98 99 factory/etc. You can not seem to get it though your head that 28-31mm inner diameter header piping is not ideal for making power over 8000 rpms on the vfr800. You need at least 35mm inner diameter piping primaries for the vfr800's engine to perform efficiently from 8000-redline. 

 

THE ULTIMATE vfr800 header would have equal length 28 inch primaries that start at 35mm, then step to 36mm at 7in, 37mm at 14in and 38mm at 21inches.

Your black widow header has 31mm inner primaries that are varying from 28 inches to 36 inches IN LENGTH. 

This is not optimal for flow rates at above 8000 rpms.

 

You seem to not realize that anyone making over 105whp on a vfr800, with out a two brothers/erion header or custom camshafts, was on a high reading dyno.

 

Your Black widow header was made with out centerstand provisions because the manufacturers were cutting costs. 

 

BLACK WIDOW IS NOT A PERFORMANCE HEADER

 

 

[CandyRedRC46]

31 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

I've got a quote from Jet-Flo they are going to be more expensive because their preparation process has more steps, first the item gets baked at 900 degrees to remove and residuals, then it gets sand blasted with 60 grit media, then they coat both the inside and outside with the ceramic coating material. The header is $360-, the connector pipe is $45- and the exhaust is $150- plus shipping the total price for a full system was estimate at $650- but that's Jet-Flo in Oklahoma City (Dan Goff estimate # 156149) but if you want to think I am "making it up" that's fine with me too, I'll understand ?

 

It is more expensive, because you don't know how to do research or shop around. I can promise you, it can be done for less than $200 with the same process.