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Single Nut Conversion Vfr800 Hrc Rc45 Style - One More:-)

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I love Titanium. Here's the Triumph nut I just bought from compeng24. He is intending to produce Ti clips to go with them, but might be a month or 2.

 

In conjunction with Titan Classics conical spring washer this seems like a perfect solution for the driven side of the axle.

 

TC also offer a lot of other useful Ti stuff like h/bar lever pivots, rear wheel drive pins and steering stem nuts. Just have to wait a while till I can afford those.

 

Did I mention, I love Ti. :biggrin:

s-l400.jpg

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17 hours ago, keef said:

vfr arm, axle/hub/eccentric removed

duke 1098 axle, etc

1.5mm shim as the duke stuff s 3mm smaller

5mm spacer to centre it

in she goes. Although it might be a 2.5mm shim and a 3mm spacer, it was 5 years ago, now. 

Custom extreme creations sprocket on a Ducati driven quick change hub, duke rear rotor, duke rear caliper, ex creations caliper bracket. 

848 stuff won’t work, only 1098. 

 

 

That doesn't sound overly complicated, but the devil is in the details -

 

-what materials did you use for the shim and spacer - aluminum?

-the caliper bracket - also aluminum? does a drawing exist?

-Why won't they 848 stuff work? Lots of 848 parts available nearby, the 1098 pieces are a bit rarer

 

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On 11/15/2017 at 12:08 PM, BiKenG said:

So the RC45 wheel nut is M18 x 1.5, but what about the NC30 and 35? I suspect they are the same, but I cannot seem to get any confirmation of that.

 

I just fit my Ti sprocket-side M18 x 1.5 nut (used on my RC30 axle) onto my NC35.  Confirmed!
 

Ciao,

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On 11/15/2017 at 12:08 PM, BiKenG said:

So the RC45 wheel nut is M18 x 1.5, but what about the NC30 and 35? I suspect they are the same, but I cannot seem to get any confirmation of that.

 

I just fit my Ti sprocket-side M18 x 1.5 nut (used on my RC30 axle) onto my NC35.  Confirmed!
 

Ciao,

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On 11/15/2017 at 12:08 PM, BiKenG said:

So the RC45 wheel nut is M18 x 1.5, but what about the NC30 and 35? I suspect they are the same, but I cannot seem to get any confirmation of that.

 

I just fit my Ti sprocket-side M18 x 1.5 nut (used on my RC30 axle) onto my NC35.  Confirmed!
 

Ciao,

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...and now you know I'm SERIOUS...

 

Ciao,

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yeah, ally for the shim and spacer.

Ally for the caliper bracket. It's cnc (extreme creations has  a cnc) so he has a drawing for it, but can also reproduce the bracket fairly quickly. I cant give away a design that a mate worked hard to create.

the 848 has a smaller axle (like the 916/748 series of bikes) so doesn't quite work out. otherwise Phantom's result wouldn't be quite so mix and match.

I didn't choose the 1098 through diligent research, I just wanted a 6inch rear wheel. I managed to find a forged 1098S rear wheel, and because mismatched wheels are the devil, a cast 848 front. It was impossible to find a reasonably priced forged front - they tend to take the impact in crashes.

 

I was wondering why there were 3 responses why I was typing a fairly short response.

Serious? or very effing excited?

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For 5th gen (and probably 6th gen), 1098 works better. For 4th gen, 848 fits with mismatched parts. Have to consider wheel/tire clearance on the 4th gen, which was meant for a smaller wheel than the 5th gen.

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15 hours ago, JZH said:

 

I just fit my Ti sprocket-side M18 x 1.5 nut (used on my RC30 axle) onto my NC35.  Confirmed!

 

Surely you mean wheel side? The sprocket side uses M38 x 1.5 (or M35 if not single nut wheel fixing).

 

I took a chance and ordered the Ti wheel nut that was specified for the 400s but not the RC45. Should be here today, but good to know I made the right choice. 

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On 03/06/2016 at 8:54 AM, Veefer800Canuck said:

I hope those 4 spot welds aren't going to be all that holds your axle together. I'm assuming it will get fully welded later, yes?

 

I had thought it could be welded all the way around the axle, but I now realise that's not really possible as the 'adapter' is pushed into the axle right up to the thread. So as far as I can see from the photos, holes must be drilled in the axle and the adapter welded to the axle just around each hole. Can't have too many holes, obviously. :wink:

 

The only other way would be to cut the axle shorter and weld that shortened end to the adapter around the full circumference. The axle would just need shortening sufficiently to provide enough space for the weld. But making sure the adapter is pushed in to the correct depth would be trickier.

 

Anyone actually installed this adapter and could comment?

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19 hours ago, keef said:

yeah, ally for the shim and spacer.

Ally for the caliper bracket. It's cnc (extreme creations has  a cnc) so he has a drawing for it, but can also reproduce the bracket fairly quickly. I cant give away a design that a mate worked hard to create.

the 848 has a smaller axle (like the 916/748 series of bikes) so doesn't quite work out. otherwise Phantom's result wouldn't be quite so mix and match.

I didn't choose the 1098 through diligent research, I just wanted a 6inch rear wheel. I managed to find a forged 1098S rear wheel, and because mismatched wheels are the devil, a cast 848 front. It was impossible to find a reasonably priced forged front - they tend to take the impact in crashes.

 

I was wondering why there were 3 responses why I was typing a fairly short response.

Serious? or very effing excited?

 

Thanks, info very much appreciated. Looks like I have my winter project now. Off to look up the Extreme Creations website and see if they'll machine another bracket and ship it stateside......

 

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3 hours ago, BiKenG said:

 

Surely you mean wheel side? The sprocket side uses M38 x 1.5 (or M35 if not single nut wheel fixing).

 

I took a chance and ordered the Ti wheel nut that was specified for the 400s but not the RC45. Should be here today, but good to know I made the right choice. 

 

I knew this was going to happen!  Yes, I meant wheel side.  And then I hit the "Submit Reply" button three times because the page didn't update.  So, now I've memorialised my uck-fup three times for posterity.  It's been one of those weeks...  :unsure:

 

But I don't care because I also got a pristine Startrite 14-T-10 bandsaw for £350, delivered!  :goofy:

 

Ciao,

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5 hours ago, JZH said:

I knew this was going to happen!  Yes, I meant wheel side.

 

So now you need to find a 35mm Ti axle nut or your VFR will be unbalanced :wink:

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I'm trying to put together a single nut fixing using Honda's central axle bolt.
 
I have an RC45 axle bolt and it appears to fit into the NC30 axle although the splines don't exactly slide in easily and will need some tapping to go fully home (they're totally dry having only just been de-greased). I'm guessing that's normal.
 
However, the bolt then protrudes about 2" from the end of the axle. Should it be this long? Means the wheel and washers have to be much thicker than I would have expected. I've got nothing to which I can compare it. Can anyone recall how much the bolt sticks out of the axle or has a 400 axle they can measure for length?
 
How is a 400 wheel centred? There's no RC45 style cone spacer to centralise it on the axle, so what does? Is the idea that it is a snug fit over the axle and that's sufficient. The fancy spacer under the nut then would be just a big washer. Or does that spacer somehow help even though it's not going to be as good as the RC45's cone spacer. Or does the wheel sit snug on the boss at the centre of the flange, with the drive pins just there to stop it rotating? The RC45 uses its cone spacer for this, but I just cannot see quite how the 400 achieves the same centralisation and I don't have all the 400 parts to be able to work it out. Anyone familiar with the 400s?

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16 hours ago, jim v said:

 

Thanks, info very much appreciated. Looks like I have my winter project now. Off to look up the Extreme Creations website and see if they'll machine another bracket and ship it stateside......

 

he will - I asked him before for another member.

Tell Ben that hooligan from ASF says hi.

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I think this is a picture of my RC30 axle before it was modified to take the NR wheel.  The drive pins have been removed (the NR uses larger diameter pins, which had to be fabricated):

P1000538x.jpg.662fe3d9538d2f2e3b9c52ff16e76032.jpg

 

In contrast, this is an RC36 axle; it has no central locating flange--the wheel is centred and retained by the studs and nuts, only:

20160422_195628x.thumb.jpg.6b0cbf3658b4a95836ff21d3a902f610.jpg

 

The NC30 wheel is centred by the protruding flange on the axle, the axle bolt (and the cone spacer, which isn't actually conical) just keeps the wheel from falling off.  This is actually an NC30 axle that has been modified by Rick Oliver to accept a VFR750 wheel.  The central flange has actually been cut down from its original length because it would have interfered with the VFR750 wheel:

0042.JPG.2d943910a419613137dae9fc51647b83.JPG

 

In this photo you can see where the OEM drive pins were before they were plugged:

0006.jpg.5bda68d7489c0e88ff305007fe744ed0.jpg

 

The NC30/35 and RC40 all use a flat "cone spacer", so its function must be slightly different than on the RC30/45.  It may be that the conical part of it isn't actually necessary when the wheel is being retained by an axle bolt and nut, and centred by the central flange?  When the conical spacer is actually the nut that retains the wheel onto the axle (as it is on HRC bikes), I can see it being fully functional, but the conical bit doesn't seem necessary on a production bike.  :unsure:

 

(I do recall the inner axle being a tight fit on my NC30/35s, so that doesn't seen out of line to me.)

 

Ciao,

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On 11/17/2017 at 1:16 PM, BiKenG said:
How is a 400 wheel centred? There's no RC45 style cone spacer to centralise it on the axle, so what does? Is the idea that it is a snug fit over the axle and that's sufficient. The fancy spacer under the nut then would be just a big washer. 

 

Yes, the 400's are snug fit on the axle and the washer is just a spacer, or versa vica..... 

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Excellent info John (JZH) thanks. My concern at the moment is fitting an RC36.2 wheel to the NC30 axle. As you mentioned above, the axle is too large to fit through the wheel. So it's modify the wheel or shorten the axle. Since I'll need to modify the wheel anyway, I'll probably do both.

 

I will need to turn out the wheel's centre bore on the mount side to be a snug fit over that boss and also turn the outer edge of the bore so that the 400 'not cone' spacer fits nicely or I could use an RC45 cone spacer, if I had one. But I don't. I have a couple of 400 type spacers though so that's probably the way to go. Unless anyone has an RC45 cone spacer going spare? Ideally wanting to swap for a 400 one. :wink:

 

As has been mentioned before, I will need to plug the original bolt holes in the outer surface of the wheel, but I could then make some large drive pins that would locate into the wheel's bolt holes in the inner mount surface and modify the axle flange to fit these pins at the 100mm PCD, as John has done above with actual wheel studs, although I'll mount my special drive pins instead. It's a pity Honda didn't use 100mm PCD for the drive pins. That would have been just soooo convenient.

 

Hmm, what's the disc mount hole PCD? If that was 100mm...

 

Looking at the pictures it looks slightly larger (damn), but I need to measure it to be sure. That would also be extremely convenient.

 

Next problem is how to mount the wheel in my lathe and that's assuming it's even big enough. Time to find out. :unsure:

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I think I've heard of someone welding up the lug holes in a 750 wheel, which shouldn't really be a big problem for a competent welder.  Possibly a Hawk GT guy--they're nuts, those boys.

 

Don't/didn't you have an RC45?  It sounds like it would be very useful to compare a Honda single-nut wheel with the RC36-II wheel you have.  Now that you mention it, I might have acquired a conical wheel spacer with my RC30 swing arm.  I'll have to check in the shed-o-wonder.

 

I can get you whatever measurements you need.  Which, exactly?

 

Ciao,

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1 hour ago, JZH said:

 Possibly a Hawk GT guy--they're nuts, those boys.

 

 

LOL :) Yep....

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11 hours ago, JZH said:

I think I've heard of someone welding up the lug holes in a 750 wheel, which shouldn't really be a big problem for a competent welder.  Possibly a Hawk GT guy--they're nuts, those boys.

 

Don't/didn't you have an RC45?  It sounds like it would be very useful to compare a Honda single-nut wheel with the RC36-II wheel you have.  Now that you mention it, I might have acquired a conical wheel spacer with my RC30 swing arm.  I'll have to check in the shed-o-wonder.

 

I can get you whatever measurements you need.  Which, exactly?

 

Ciao,

 

Yes I have an RC45, but apart from it being tucked away at the moment and hard to get to, I'm not sure I want go that route. Specifically I think it's because I have a couple of 400 spacers and hate the thought of not using one of those and buying something else instead. Unless someone else found they had an RC45 one available...

 

In fact, the raised ridge on the inside of the 400 spacer is an almost perfect fit into the outside of the RC36.2 wheel. Although the wheel has a tapered centre hole like the RC45. the 400 spacer is a snug fit. I reckon with the paint removed it wouldn't even need any machining for the 400 spacer that would grab the wheel nicely when the nut was tightened. So that's probably the route I'll take. I do need to machine out the inside end of the wheel centre bore (currently 50mm) to fit over the axle boss (needs 51mm) however and getting the wheel mounted that way around in the lathe will be interesting.

 

I did measure the axle and the PCDs are as follows:-

 

Drive pins = 85mm

Wheel studs = 100mm

Disc mount bolts = 110mm

 

I guess using the different PCDs makes sense for OEM, but if they were the same it would make this job a lot simpler.

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On 11/16/2017 at 4:46 PM, keef said:

an 848 only gives you a girly 5.5 inches.

a 1098 gives you a manly 6 inches.

 

6 inches is manly, right?

 

It's not what you've got, it's what you do with it, Chris...

 

My trick is to fit smaller bodywork, which makes it look bigger :wink:

 

 

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Ha! That's what people with small tyres say.

Because I have a ninja 250 seat and subframe, the 6 inch with  190/55 looks like a 240 section tyre.

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I am not sure if this has already been mentioned, but...Question: the NC30 axle is shorter than the RC36 axle, so will it work with the RC36 bearing carrier?  but is that because of the lack of cush drive, or because of the narrower bearing carrier on the NC30?  

 

I've got the triangular piece we spoke about in front of me now, but I still cannot find the conical spacer (assuming I have one).  You could probably turn a conical spacer on your lathe to help centre the axle and nut, which would sit inboard of the raised lip on the flat NC30 spacer--same effect.

 

Ciao,

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